Meaninglessness of life ...

[Tripacer]

Originally Posted by Starman

Okay, does working so hard to create our modern society, our fancy homes, cars, etc. have any meaning when they are as good as gone before we even create them?

What is supposed to be my motivation to participate in all of this?

Everything is born, everything lives, and everything eventually dies. This is even true for radiation. Why dwell on it. It is not a negative, it is a fact of all things.

[Starman]

Originally Posted by Tripacer

Everything is born, everything lives, and everything eventually dies. This is even true for radiation. Why dwell on it. It is not a negative, it is a fact of all things.

I'm not afraid of death; I take that back. I'm afraid of not having a reason to be alive more than I'm afraid of death.

Not dwelling on the question doesn't answer the question, and an answer to that question would profoundly impact a lot of people, maybe everyone.

Survival for survival's sake isn't an answer, just like "I take a shower in the morning so I can take a shower in the morning" says nothing about why I take showers in the morning.

It's possible that some may have never thought about the question and why the answer is important. Let me give an example:

I tell my children that working hard to educate themselves is important so they can contribute to theirs and others well-being. You can call "Being comfortable in life while it lasts" an answer, but it isn't a good one; it's a self-obvious explanation that's easy to point to, but doesn't answer the question.

For instance, what are we supposed to tell handicapped children, those who cannot be educated well or contribute to theirs and others well-being? If the above self-obvious answer sufficiently explains why they're here and what they should do while they're alive, then they are left with no reason to live. What do we tell such children regarding their future in our world - they don't have one?

If you don't like that answer, good, because maybe it will make you realize you have the same issue, just one level higher than theirs.

We have no valid point for being alive if we don't have a valid answer to the question, beyond the self-obvious one.

Steve states this in his podcast: "Life, the Universe, and Everything". He makes the assumption, and admits that its his guess, that something of us (consciousness?) survives death, and that by increasing its power, we can add lasting value. If someone took Steve's assumption, did some research and developed a definitive, solid answer regarding it, wouldn't you like to know what they found?

Given the lack of an answer, Angela's solution is the only option: find or make your own purpose. It's not an answer, it's just the only thing you can otherwise do.

[ZHereford]

As with anything else about our existence, including meaning to our lives, if you're looking for 'proof', you're not going to find it.

That leaves us with the freedom and beauty of defining it for ourselves (existentialism)! What's wrong with that? To have an authoritative or absolute answer probably defeats the purpose or meaning of life - which is to figure it out for ourselves.

[Daniel Birdick]

Originally Posted by Starman

Not dwelling on the question doesn't answer the question, and an answer to that question would profoundly impact a lot of people, maybe everyone.

It's possible that some may have never thought about the question and why the answer is important.

We have no valid point for being alive if we don't have a valid answer to the question, beyond the self-obvious one.

Maybe the question itself is the "problem" and not the lack of an answer. Nonsensical questions must necessarily produce nonsensical answers.

[aphorist]

Originally Posted by Daniel Birdick

Maybe the question itself is the "problem" and not the lack of an answer. Nonsensical questions must necessarily produce nonsensical answers.

yes, but from another side, the question makes perfect sense, and so does the answer. you are alive because you are alive. it makes very good sense to me. it's how it is, as it should be.

[Starman]

Originally Posted by aphorist

yes, but from another side, the question makes perfect sense, and so does the answer. you are alive because you are alive. it makes very good sense to me. it's how it is, as it should be.

Yeah, it makes sense.

No, it doesn't answer the question:

Does my/anyone's life add lasting value to anything, anywhere, and therefore has overarching purpose: a meaning.

I Interpret that as a NO.

[Starman]

Holy mackerel, I have found a clue.

The complete void of information pertaining to this topic and the apparent impossibility of obtaining it, is not an accidental or natural phenomenon.

Thanks for helping me. I wish all of you the best of luck.

Bye

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Starman

Holy mackerel, I have found a clue.

The complete void of information pertaining to this topic and the apparent impossibility of obtaining it, is not an accidental or natural phenomenon.

Thanks for helping me. I wish all of you the best of luck.

Bye

You're welcome! And thanks for the good wishes, but skillful generators of meaning that we are, we don't need luck.

[Strem2]

Originally Posted by Starman

I like watching the National Geographic channel, about "primitive" cultures in places like South America, Africa, etc.

I can picture me standing beside a man from one of these cultures, in front of each of our houses, and him saying to me, "you know, the two of us, and our homes and other stuff are going to the same place."

My house, $200K, 6-8 months to build
His house, free, 1 day to build

My life, leave family to slave all day, to pay for the house, car, etc.
His life, hunting/gathering food with his family all day.

My focus: participating in modern society/materialism
His focus: family, ancestors

Maybe I'm the one with the "primitive" culture!

I love that, Starman! Most people don't know that our indigenous people here in North America had invented every bean except the mung and the soybean before the European came. They had domesticated the deadly nightshade plants, tomatoes and peppers and eggplants. Where would Italy be today without tomatoes? They spent their time on horticulture and games. The games of flying balls (basketball, baseball, football) all originated from native games such as Lacrosse.

Meanwhile, the European arrived with black powder and guns and did their best to destroy the native cultures in Central America and the parts of the Caribbean. Champlain describes in his journal, sailing down the coast of what is probably Massachusetts, and looking ashore to see game, deer, walking calmly in a manicured forest, so clear that you could see into it. Fish were abundant. The forest was interrupted by plantings, small fields of one foodstuff or another. He compared it to the Garden of Paradise....

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by Starman

I'm afraid of not having a reason to be alive, more than I'm afraid of death.

For instance, what are we supposed to tell handicapped children, those who cannot be educated well or contribute to theirs and others well-being? If the above self-obvious answer sufficiently explains why they're here, and what they should do while they're alive, then they are left with no reason to live.
What do we tell such children regarding their future in our world - they don't have one?

Given the lack of an answer, Angela's solution is the only option: find or make your own purpose. It's not an answer, it's just the only thing you can otherwise do.

Not so fast!
the miserable reality you chose buying into, should be everyone's problem??
Well
for me, and the people I enjoy working with, we have yet to find a CHILD (& often adult),
beyond hopelessly 'handicapped', who can't be successfully-educated. <- simply get
the requisite skills to get the job done Sir!
That given,
everyone can "contribute to theirs, and others well-being." - So, our job is helping people understand
that YES! God gave each of us a 'purpose', and then help people make said purpose comes true...

and in this, I wish you all the best of luck too!

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by Starman

Don't worry, I'm going to do the same thing
with a belief that the value I add to others doesn't cease to exist, that there is life after death, that God/Morality gives meaning to things, makes it not alright to use whatever means necessary to obtain the fun you want, because you're going to have to account for all this at some point; be penalized in some way.
But
for right now, I'm trying to be an atheist, you know, to check it out.

Your choice

wanna travel-down the 3-lane freeway, to nowhere?
or
Wanna take the other road, in the Y-turn, to life-abundantly anywhere... like heaven-on-earth.

yup, your choice! - Choose well!

[Plato]

I sometimes think life is meaningless when I create dilemmas.