The Law of Cause and Effect - what about Acts of God?

[Illumination]

We know that Socrates stated in the past that everything happens for a reason. For every effect, there is a specific cause. If you want something in your life, you have to create the causes.

Simply put, we are ultimately responsible for the consequences of our choices.

It certainly seems true. Then I thought about Acts of God e.g. natural disasters, being stricken with a terminal illness, etc.

Take for example Randy Pasuch. This is a man who clearly understands and lives by the law of cause of effect, yet he comes down with a terminal illness. At this point, things don't seem to gel.

Any opinions?

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Illumination

We know that Socrates stated in the past that everything happens for a reason. For every effect, there is a specific cause. If you want something in your life, you have to create the causes.

Simply put, we are ultimately responsible for the consequences of our choices.

It certainly seems true. Then I thought about Acts of God e.g. natural disasters, being stricken with a terminal illness, etc.

Take for example Randy Pasuch. This is a man who clearly understands and lives by the law of cause of effect, yet he comes down with a terminal illness. At this point, things don't seem to gel.

Any opinions?

Great topic!

My theory is that if we are creating i.e. LOA, IM then we are wholley creative, not just the things we focus on and not just our conscious beliefs. I think we have to be creating at all levels of our being and creating all levels from our being.

It is difficult to imagine we create our illnesses and more so to imagine we create the natural disasters but it is possible. There is a possibility that we are wholley responsible for our internal self-creation and jointly responsible for the external creations.

regards

[Ariel Bravy]

Is it possible that we are much more powerful at creating our reality than we realize?

Is it possible that even natural disasters are a way to create a particular experience for yourself?

Is it possible that you're making decisions on a deeper level as part of your life's purpose that may manifest as what we call a terminal illness?

Is it possible that we are doing things that we aren't fully conscious of, and we haven't yet made all the connections between cause and effect?

[Antarananda]

Read all about sanchita, agamya and prarabdha karma. It will all make sense.


There is no "God". Even so-called natural disasters are merely a form of consciousness-in-motion, a way of Nature resetting its energetic balance when it has achieved critical energetic state.

Incidentally, some of the most famous Enlightened masters of India - Ramana Maharshi, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Nisargadatta Maharaj - dropped the body by succumbing to cancer. They did not fight it or strive to heal themselves, nor did they truly suffer (although severe pain was certainly experienced), because they were deeply aware of the illusory nature of the body. All their karma was burnt, as it were, so there was no need to hold onto "life". In such instances, cancer is merely the body's way of dissolution, and the freeing of awareness in the human form into the unbounded awareness, since there is no resistance to holding on, or wanting to experience through a body anymore.

[whitehatblackbox]

Everything may have a reason or it may not. I don't really know. I've been thinking about these questions a lot lately. Even if something does indeed have a reason, we may not understand it, we may not know about it, or we may not even be able to express it.

An analogy is to ask yourself how many numbers exist? We would say there are an infinite amount of numbers. To answer the amount of numbers calls for a number, but a single number cannot explain all the numbers.

So the answer is something that is not a number, which we call infinite. Though we have an answer (a reason), we may not understand the answer. Infinite is not a value, but a statement of something, but not knowing what that something is.

As for Professor Randy Pasuch, he came to really focus on the important things to him because of his diagnosis.

[Brown Eyed Mystic]

[QUOTE=Antarananda;366829]Read all about sanchita, agamya and prarabdha karma. It will all make sense.

It sure did to me. Wonderful read! Thanks for sharing

[Ted the Mighty]

Originally Posted by Illumination

We know that Socrates stated in the past that everything happens for a reason. For every effect, there is a specific cause. If you want something in your life, you have to create the causes.

Do we now? Socrates never actually wrote anything down. Most of what we know about him comes from Plato and his student Aristotle. Many of these accounts differ and neither of these men were above exploiting Socrates' name for their own benefit. I'm not saying Socrates' didn't say this, but we don't know that.

Originally Posted by Illumination

Take for example Randy Pasuch. This is a man who clearly understands and lives by the law of cause of effect, yet he comes down with a terminal illness. At this point, things don't seem to gel.

He may have understood the law but no one is above it. A big part of cause and effect is understanding that you're not the only cause in the world. His cancer had a cause, it just wasn't necessarily him as far as I know.

Originally Posted by Maguru

My theory is that if we are creating i.e. LOA, IM then we are wholley creative, not just the things we focus on and not just our conscious beliefs. I think we have to be creating at all levels of our being and creating all levels from our being.

In context that makes a lot of sense to me. All or nothing, eh?

Originally Posted by Maguru

It is difficult to imagine we create our illnesses

Not at all! We stress ourselves, we eat things our biology cannot handle, we live in polluted environments and often deprive ourselves of satisfactory amounts of water and sleep. Even at a material level many humans engage in very self-destructive behavior.

Originally Posted by Maguru

...and more so to imagine we create the natural disasters but it is possible. There is a possibility that we are wholley responsible for our internal self-creation and jointly responsible for the external creations.

The jury is out on that. A little over my head. But I prefer to think of natural disasters as natural phenomena. If a volcano erupts and nothing gets hurt, does it really matter? For every tornado that hits something, dozens just harmlessly blow through the desert. Also, I don't know how the LOA works precisely but I would bet money that natural "disasters" have existed long before humanity or any form of organic life.

Originally Posted by Ariel Bravy

Is it possible that we are much more powerful at creating our reality than we realize?

That depends entirely on what we realize but if you're asking the question then the answer is probably, "Yes."

Originally Posted by Ariel Bravy

Is it possible that even natural disasters are a way to create a particular experience for yourself?

Again, probably, "Yes." On the other hand it is very hard to justify the suffering of refugees with that kind of rationale. Natural phenomena tend to happen in certain areas with much greater frequency than others. What is the implication there? I'm not saying LOA doesn't have any sway over these things but it seems a little over-the top to pin tsunamis and what-have-you on this kind of theory.

Originally Posted by Ariel Bravy

Is it possible that you're making decisions on a deeper level as part of your life's purpose that may manifest as what we call a terminal illness?

I suspect that terminal illnesses have more to with decisions on a shallow level. Again, I'll say that it's probably possible but it seems a more efficient use of time to observe your current habits if you want to avoid terminal illness.

Originally Posted by Ariel Bravy

Is it possible that we are doing things that we aren't fully conscious of, and we haven't yet made all the connections between cause and effect?

I certainly haven't.

Originally Posted by Antarananda

Incidentally, some of the most famous Enlightened masters of India - Ramana Maharshi, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Nisargadatta Maharaj - dropped the body by succumbing to cancer. They did not fight it or strive to heal themselves, nor did they truly suffer (although severe pain was certainly experienced), because they were deeply aware of the illusory nature of the body. All their karma was burnt, as it were, so there was no need to hold onto "life". In such instances, cancer is merely the body's way of dissolution, and the freeing of awareness in the human form into the unbounded awareness, since there is no resistance to holding on, or wanting to experience through a body anymore.

That is very interesting. I cannot imagine myself going in such a way but I do not pretend to be as wise as Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj or the others.

Originally Posted by whitehatblackbox

We would say there are an infinite amount of numbers

I would say there are no numbers. A number is an intellectual construct that exists solely for convenience. For example, I would say that Panama does not exist. There is a place that many people refer to as Panama but it is ultimately just land. Boundaries on a map do not exist in real life and neither do boundaries in quantity. Remember, aside from "real" numbers there are negative, irrational and even imaginary numbers. Two does not exist any more in reality than negative two does.

Originally Posted by whitehatblackbox

As for Professor Randy Pasuch, he came to really focus on the important things to him because of his diagnosis.

This seems unfair. Randy Pausch was a fine man before he had cancer. He spent his whole life working to achieve his goals, not just the last six months. Remember, he was forty-seven years old and had done a lot of good in his life.

[GuideMySpirit]

Well I think that cause and effect are not the only cards played in the game, it has to go beyond that.
We live based on cause and effect of course, but to my understanding we also live based on fate and destiny created by the God within us. Others know this as the Higher Self (your own quiet voice).
You have lessons to learn and live through, which also effect those around you for example if there is a death, or illness in the family. It's more important that you grow from it, then struggle with it and try to figure out who could of done this.
Fate can be changed it is based fully on cause and effect, but destiny is the work of God within you, which ultimately you (your Higher Self) is doing while you are in this experience.

[Roseblue]

So the answer is that no one really knows the answer. Most of us simply follow what we believe to be true. Beliefs gained by much reading and research are what is shaping our lives. Our beliefs and our choices shape our lives. Our thoughts and actions are the cause and the result of those thoughts and actions is the effect. Want better results? Think better thoughts.

[wolfgang]

you have no personal power to effect anything.

causes are just what the mind picks up as an event that seems to explain what's happening.

the big picture of life runs a coarse and we can tune into it and delude ourselves into thinking we have power to create what we are just tuning into.

everything in the mind is an after effect of reflection using a personal viewpoint that is behind the actual life flow.

[joelr]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

you have no personal power to effect anything.

causes are just what the mind picks up as an event that seems to explain what's happening.

the big picture of life runs a coarse and we can tune into it and delude ourselves into thinking we have power to create what we are just tuning into.

everything in the mind is an after effect of reflection using a personal viewpoint that is behind the actual life flow.

Well we do create mass and energy or at least cause it to switch from a ghost-like probabilistic state into a much more defined state in spacetime.
I mean it never actually becomes "matter" as such but it's probabilistic nature drops to such a small location it acts as actual matter. This is only done with consciousness.

[wolfgang]

consciousness is different than deluded personal ego self power

[Maguru]

Not at all! We stress ourselves, we eat things our biology cannot handle, we live in polluted environments and often deprive ourselves of satisfactory amounts of water and sleep. Even at a material level many humans engage in very self-destructive behavior.

and we smoke and drink.........

The jury is out on that. A little over my head. But I prefer to think of natural disasters as natural phenomena. If a volcano erupts and nothing gets hurt, does it really matter? For every tornado that hits something, dozens just harmlessly blow through the desert. Also, I don't know how the LOA works precisely but I would bet money that natural "disasters" have existed long before humanity or any form of organic life.

Good point!They certainly wouldn't be disasters without humans involved.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

you have no personal power to effect anything.

causes are just what the mind picks up as an event that seems to explain what's happening.

the big picture of life runs a coarse and we can tune into it and delude ourselves into thinking we have power to create what we are just tuning into.

Yes, I have personally joined the imaginary dots to create an imaginary picture that deluded myself into thinking I had created it. However, the feeling of being in tune with life is very persuasive and I wouldn't mind more of it.

everything in the mind is an after effect of reflection using a personal viewpoint that is behind the actual life flow.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Is everything that is in the mind the truth or perception? regards

[whitehatblackbox]

Originally Posted by Ted the Mighty

I would say there are no numbers. A number is an intellectual construct that exists solely for convenience. For example, I would say that Panama does not exist. There is a place that many people refer to as Panama but it is ultimately just land. Boundaries on a map do not exist in real life and neither do boundaries in quantity. Remember, aside from "real" numbers there are negative, irrational and even imaginary numbers. Two does not exist any more in reality than negative two does.

I was wondering how you define reality. Do you think it is just the physical, lacking any judgment or distinction? Or do you think it's something else?

Originally Posted by Ted the Mighty

This seems unfair. Randy Pausch was a fine man before he had cancer. He spent his whole life working to achieve his goals, not just the last six months. Remember, he was forty-seven years old and had done a lot of good in his life.

You're right. He lived an exciting life all the way through. What I should have said is that he didn't waste his time (with things like waiting for a telephone operator) once he realized his time was limited. He was already an amazing person, but his diagnosis caused him to refocus his attention.

[joelr]

Originally Posted by Ted the Mighty

I would say there are no numbers. A number is an intellectual construct that exists solely for convenience. For example, I would say that Panama does not exist. There is a place that many people refer to as Panama but it is ultimately just land. Boundaries on a map do not exist in real life and neither do boundaries in quantity. Remember, aside from "real" numbers there are negative, irrational and even imaginary numbers. Two does not exist any more in reality than negative two does.

Hmm formalism. That view was often applied to mathematics in the 19th century. I think the Platonist view is closer to the truth as numbers often tell us what is real rather than the other way around.
Mathematic constructs are somehow "out there" waiting to be discovered. And like us they are all connected which can probably be better understood by some meta-mathematics which we may never understand in full.

[aphorist]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

you have no personal power to effect anything.

causes are just what the mind picks up as an event that seems to explain what's happening.

the big picture of life runs a coarse and we can tune into it and delude ourselves into thinking we have power to create what we are just tuning into.

everything in the mind is an after effect of reflection using a personal viewpoint that is behind the actual life flow.

I'm with wolfgang on this topic. Every effect has its cause, but every cause also has its effect. They act in tandem with each other, it's impossible to separate the two.

If you really see cause/effect, you see that there is no will, no power to create. Even more, you see that there is no real 'you' to have a will in the first place. Everything is flow, and there's no 'changing' that.

OP: Humanity can link most natural phenomenon to a tangible cause. When we couldn't, we had polytheistic religions to explain them. Science shows physical relationships now, but in either case there's a cause and effect (God mad = tornado or atmospheric imbalance = tornado). I don't see how Randy Pasuch is exempted from cause/effect just because he understands it. His terminal illness is the effect of different causes. I doubt anyone would deny that.