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| Spirituality, Consciousness, & Awareness Spirituality, beliefs, the nature of reality, consciousness, awareness, metaphysics, truth, philosophy, religion |
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06-16-2009, 02:21 PM
| #1 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2
 |  Do You Have a CHOICE?
Hi Everyone - I have pondered this seemingly simple, yet extremely complex question and I need help answering it for class. It really is a matter of opinion but I would like to know what other people think. Do you believe in destiny or do you choose to believe in free-will? Do we choose our lives and what happens in them or do they just happen - everything moving with the tides of fate? Please also explain WHY you believe whatever you believe and add examples you see in life. Please reply! |
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06-16-2009, 04:08 PM
| #2 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: May 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 989
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Definitely freewill. I believe that we are born with a general life purpose that we choose before we are born into our next incarnation but that we are free to follow that path or totally ignore it. The consequences of totally ignoring it is that you are given that task or lesson again in your next incarnation, which regrettably keeps you further from your eventual enlightenment. Jennifer |
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06-16-2009, 04:12 PM
| #3 (permalink) |
| Family Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,566
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let go and let god. thy will be done. it only seems like we have free will. it is a trick of the human mind to feel that we chose something. if one is highly identified with their mental functions the feeling of choosing something is more pronounced. the more one is able to just be non-identified with a self, the more the trick of thinking we have free will goes away. there have been studies where they observed a brain and asked the subject to decide to pick up one of two objects. the equipment could see what the brain was telling the body to pick up before the subject could say or know what object was going to be picked up. in other words, there was some other impulse that initiated the picking up of one of two objects not the subject's deciding to do so. to the mind it seems like we decide something but it is after the fact. pretty strange. I often think we have one choice - to judge what's happening or not judge it. so if we don't like how our life is going we are judging what fate is unfolding as and that keeps us in the illusion of free will longer. as soon as one can accept what is directly and drop conditioned responses, they see life as an unfolding and smooth trip that then their path opens up into better things. this is a let go let god idea. as long as we don't let go, we are trapped into thinking we have free will and control everything and get pissed when we can't. when we can let god, we still seem to decide things but it's more like we just watch the mind doing it and for some reason that gets the ego and self importance out of the way and there's a will that still operates - just no need to force it or judge it or be habitual. just is spontaneous and able to respond in the moment with clarity and freshness. we can either kick and scream at the angels that carry us along or skip along with them. Last edited by wolfgang; 06-16-2009 at 04:15 PM. |
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06-16-2009, 04:43 PM
| #5 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,639
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When we are children, we have no choice. We only know what our parents and other elders set into our minds. While the opportunity is there, from a young age to decide for ourselves, some people have a hard time stepping out of whatever they have been taught. Yes, freewill is always there. Are we always aware of it? No. Blessings, Rebecca Quote:
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06-16-2009, 05:47 PM
| #7 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 68
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It is indeed just a matter of opinion. And something we will never know because we encounter every situation just once. I personally believe in free will, for the simple reason that anything else would make make feel demotivated: "why try to improve if it's all laid out anyway"  |
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06-16-2009, 07:45 PM
| #8 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: I'm a traveler everywhere and nowhere.. currently in Denver.. where else?
Posts: 3,618
| Do You Have a CHOICE? Absolutely Why are you even arguing the obvious?? Moments before (in the illusion you might call hours of time) you made a choice to post this.. you had the choice not too.. is it that obvious???? You see Destiny vs. Choice is a paradox you’re not wrong on this.. per my understanding.. we did make a few choices before we Incarnated these choices are themes/soul blueprint for the lives were leading.. they are ALWAYS active.. and we only make 1 choice regarding them.. follow it or don't, that is a valid choice to the oversoul and we are fulfilling our commitment.. Quote:
Do you believe in destiny or do you choose to believe in free-will? I believe in both Why? (see above) Do we choose our lives and what happens in them or do they just happen - everything moving with the tides of fate? We choose everything, there are NO accidents, NO coincidences.. we choose to stay INCARNATED or I would not be here now There is a model of the world called we'll say "normal reality" in this reality taught to me and many billions of others.. you are taught there are just coincidences, you are taught the afterlife we don't know for sure but you may want to adopt said "religious" belief.. based on this idea of not fixing these holes.. it could be called then "tides of fate" Please also explain WHY you believe whatever you believe I believe what I believe cause I started a self empowerment journey or more like a journey to my goal and to get to my goal, I need information.. this includes the rule book to existence.. Why do I believe? Because it feels right, it sounds true, it is communicated as true.. it fits every single hole I had with a science based religion.. | |
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06-16-2009, 08:27 PM
| #9 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Where soul meets body.
Posts: 1,859
| Quote:
Your conscious choices are the product of the momentum of change. You do choose what happens to you, based on where you are in the cycle of change, but your inclinations were in place before "you" were. Our souls were not patternized as "blank slates", we had dispositions and inclinations, which could be termed our "destiny" or "personality". Based on our desires, it can be seen on higher levels where our choices will lead us in the momentum of change. So we get to do whatever we want to do, but what we want was predestined. | |
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06-16-2009, 10:19 PM
| #11 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 32
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This is very interesting.... Yesterday I saw this quote. I wrote it down. I didn't know why at the time, it was something I already knew. Yet, I wrote it down. Today you pose the question, I happen to see the question, and now I use the quote. Interesting how that all worked out. "I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road." ~Stephen Hawking I believe we have free choice. I believe everything that happens in our lives, is of our own choosing. I believe that we create our world, environment, our universe. I believe that we manifest what we want into our world. Yes, even the "bad" stuff. Why do I believe this? Because I am witness to, and experience what I have manifested in my world, my environment. I resonate with this thought, or belief, on a vibratory level, naturally then, it is my truth. |
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06-17-2009, 01:42 AM
| #12 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 12
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To me it is a little of each to an extent. I firmly believe in Free Will. I also believe that their are forces at work with far more influence than we have on how things develop. Some of these are natural laws and some are from individuals with more "power" than we have (for want of a better word...). These individuals, beings or entities are also exerting their own Free Will on the situation that affects and sometimes limits the choices we have available to us. This gives the appearance of "Fate" at times as we aren't always privy to who these are, or what they do or choose not to do that affects our own choices. I hope my viewpoint on this is helpful to others if only to refine even a differing viewpoint by bringing their own thoughts into clearer focus... Jim Last edited by LOANow; 06-17-2009 at 01:46 AM. |
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06-17-2009, 06:14 AM
| #13 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 369
| My thoughts
I think it may have to do with both, Destiny and Freewill. To say so would mean, that I have a pre-decided destiny (before taking this birth, to learn several lessons and also karmic) overall. Like say, I have a destiny for encountering success when I take up dancing, just say. Success is the theme of my lifetime, so even after other hiccups I can use my Freewill to get into dancing, or I may as well go for painting and not be as successful. So, the destined success can be manifested if I am on the "right" path, you get the idea...? Both paths can be chosen by me and only me, so I am freewilled. But to recognise which will lead to a quenching would be, well, pre-decided. So in the grand scheme of things it'd be Destiny, while when it gets to chosing whatever after birth, it'd be freewill within a "limit". (because can't undo the Karma earned by just using freewill). Just my thoughts  |
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06-17-2009, 06:34 AM
| #14 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 369
| P.s.
Reason for me thinking that Destiny exists is I have seen quite accurate astrological and numerological predictions. Not always true and tested, but quite some data that I can't deny completely either. So gives an idea of something pre destined. Reason for being freewilled is simpler, we do choose. Like, when I take up LOA as my freewilled choice for my life, I do manifest little things, and I do keep getting synchs too. None of them huge yet, though. Hence so. That would be it. |
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06-17-2009, 01:41 PM
| #16 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 88
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It is the conditioned mind that chooses. You never have a choice! Although, the conditioned mind does an excellent job convincing you that every choice it makes is yours. It does this because you identify with the mind. I like wolfgang's post. It is a trick of the human mind that we have a choice in life. Let life flow. You do not have any choices to make. Again, it is always the present conditioned mind state that chooses. I always ask people if all they want is happiness, why aren't they happy. I get responses such as the world is an awful place, the mind doesn't allow me to be happy (I believe to be such an awakening response), if I get this and that I'll be happy. All tricks of the mind and when you identify with it, you act as if you are the mind. Yet, truth is you aren't the mind. |
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06-17-2009, 02:35 PM
| #17 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: May 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 989
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It's whatever makes you feel best, really. If you can face life with strength and courage and know that the choices you make are going to affect you and those around you and therefore you strive to make them count, then freewill is your man. If you can't handle what comes your way and consistently feel a victim to life and allow it to push you around, and constantly reject that you are really in control and therefore directly responsible for everything that happens to you, then you might feel more comfortable with the "it's all out of my hands....destiny must be in control" type person. Jennifer |
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06-17-2009, 04:39 PM
| #18 (permalink) |
| Family Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,566
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free will = desire or belief it's possible to control everything, response to feeling like a victim. "I've gotten a bad life situation (judgment) so I will exert my free will to control it." judgment breeds the free will illusion. fate = letting go of telling the universe it got it wrong, response to not feeling a victim. "What I have now is exactly what is cool and even if my personal self judges it I have no choice so I will not feel as a victim and accept my lot in the now, and be free of judgments and trying to control." conditioned mental behavior is how it runs a lot. supposedly there's a way to be responsible (able to respond) without conditioning. if you have accepted all your baggage and dark side stuff you can be so integrated that the mental processes do not hook you - in which case actions are very spontaneous and perfectly in line with exactly what is in the moment. That's not deciding and making choices but spontaneous actions in response to the now. The conditioned responses are more automatic and less responsible to the now. and definitely not free will/volition. to step out of conditioning is also to be without personal free will - the will of god or source or whatever moves you and in snappy in the present moment ways. I don't see going with fate as passive thing at all - it is probably the most dynamic way to live - let go and let god, you know? perhaps... |
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06-17-2009, 05:21 PM
| #19 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: India / Los Angeles
Posts: 232
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Here is quite possibly one of the most lucid responses on the topic I have read: The Riddle of Fate and Free Will EDIT: OP banned?  |
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06-17-2009, 05:37 PM
| #21 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 22,520
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I don't know what is The Truth about free will and destiny, but the game I'm playing is all about Choice. And one of my choices is to play at presenting more and more choice, to myself and for others. Choice is fun, choice is joy, that's who I am for every girl and boy. Quote:
The guy is indefatigable.
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06-17-2009, 05:37 PM
| #22 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 368
| My non-answer
Ok, this is a simple answer (I hope). Free will is perfect...God made us LIKE him in this way. The only exception to free-will choice that I have found is consciousness...meaning if you are conscious you can't exercise your free-will to become un-conscious completely and forever...you can ignore a lot and sleep, but you don't really have a choice in being conscious once you are conscious...you're stuck with that... ...outside of that "no escape" rule you can exercise free will perfectly... Free will is a skill, and takes work every day. This might be why we don't think free will is always working...but it works within the universal laws like the LOA...because we don't believe 100% that our free-will is perfect, then it feels like we are getting messed with by larger forces...but those larger forces are extentions of the same consciousness that have a different perspective...so if you say "fate" did it...fate is just more YOU. Ok...that wasn't a simple answer or non-answer, but it was a reply! |
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06-17-2009, 10:14 PM
| #23 (permalink) | |
| Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 32
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06-18-2009, 01:03 PM
| #24 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Canada
Posts: 47
|  Free Will Can Never Be Broken
Destiny is something created by you but not on this plain with this current state of mind, which is effect by the Law of Confusion when you are born here. Destiny is your ultimate lesson that cannot be avoided, yet does not interfere with the Law of Free Will, because you actually chose it before coming here. You might not be aware of this choice, but there is nothing in your mind that tells you that will happen, because when destiny happens it still seems as though you have 'chosen' it too happen. The outcome of destiny is obviously then up to you, it is your own test that you create for yourself, and what you learn is what you choose to learn. Fate on the other hand works alongside cause and effect, what you put out you get back in return. Sort of like a mirror in the Universe that reflects your thoughts and actions back to you. Choice is always there, even if you sometimes become unaware that you made a choice. This happens usually down the road of something that you decided to do along time ago. If you think about there are many moments in your life were you try to 'understand' a choice you made, but were never really conscious of making it because it happened without you realizing. |
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06-18-2009, 02:04 PM
| #25 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3
| Here's another viewpoint... Leader: In praise of ... free will | Comment is free | The Guardian (Hope that link works - a bit new here!) |
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06-18-2009, 02:30 PM
| #28 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: I'm a traveler everywhere and nowhere.. currently in Denver.. where else?
Posts: 3,618
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06-18-2009, 02:32 PM
| #29 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: London UK
Posts: 108
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Angela, Thanks for clearing that up for me. Good thread pity it was started by the OP. In response to other posters I would like to add this. I discovered books at a very young age and when I was 15 I decided that I wanted to be a writer. Unfortunately life got in the way of that. But I still believe I should have been a writer. Why? Because I have dreams to this day that would make great stories. I think I missed my calling. So yes, I believe in destiny but I also believe we have the choice to - - - - it up. |
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