Personal Development for Smart People^TM Forums

shivraj · 05-26-2009, 11:17 AM

Some pigeons used to sit on a tree in a park. Suddenly danger started lingering on these pigeons. A hunter began to frequent the park. Every time he came, he hunted down a pigeon to take home.

One day, two pigeons were sitting on the tree. They saw the hunter come towards them, at the same time they also saw a hawk hovering above. It was a frightening situation. Both of them said to each other, "Now what do we do? If we continue to sit here the hunter's arrow can pierce us, and if we take off in the sky the hawk may catch us." Then one of them said, "There is only one way to get out of this situation - prayer. Come, let us pray together." The other said, "There is no use praying now. The time to pray has already passed." The first one replied, "It is never too late to pray." Whenever we remember we can at least pray with feeling, understanding and reverence to be saved from the calamity.

As soon as they finished praying, they saw that the hunter was aiming at them. When he was just about to release the arrow, a scorpion bit him. The arrow left the bow, went up straight into the sky and hit the hawk. This was the result of their prayer. They got rid of both their enemies in one stroke.

In the most difficult of situations, when decision-making seems difficult or you need more time to decide, do not forget to pray, even though you do not see any signs of your prayer getting fulfilled....

Namaste.

newsbone · 05-26-2009, 11:52 AM

The most disheartening part was that both the hunter and the hawk had prayed for food, were praying to the same god?

shivraj · 05-26-2009, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newsbone

The most disheartening part was that both the hunter and the hawk had prayed for food, were praying to the same god?

God respond to the prayer from the bottom of heart. hunter and hawk was killers. pigeons were praying for their life. Moral of the story is never loose hope.

SimonaRich · 05-26-2009, 08:46 PM

I don't really pray but I ask for guidance of angels during difficult situations. So yes, maybe it is prayer but not the way religious people do. I just ask for guidance of that situation and I always - Always get it.

Mato Kinze · 05-28-2009, 03:44 AM

I've become very careful what I pray for. I once prayed for Humility and Patience. Two weeks later I was laid off and unemployed for nine months.

I've learned that if you pray for Strength, you will be given burdens to strengthen you. If you pray for Patience, you will be made to wait. If you pray for Humility, you will be humbled. If you pray for Courage, your courage will be tested.

So, now I pray for Mercy, Love, and Understanding. Now, I'm given opportunities to be merciful, people to love, and insight into myself and others.

I like this way of being much better.

shivraj · 05-28-2009, 05:21 PM

Prayer is the great power. Things start attracting towards us by heartful prayer. New opportunities come, new understanding we get..

I firmly belive on prayers. It's the conversation with God and God talks with me in the form of intuition and happy surprises comes in my life.

Thanks.

Will Edwards · 05-28-2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shivraj

God respond to the prayer from the bottom of heart. hunter and hawk was killers. pigeons were praying for their life. Moral of the story is never loose hope.

Pigeon pie - yummy!

Sorry - just joking! I don't think that prayer works quite in this way, but if it helps you in some way, then, of course, it is your business.

Will

newsbone · 05-29-2009, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shivraj

God respond to the prayer from the bottom of heart. hunter and hawk was killers. pigeons were praying for their life. Moral of the story is never loose hope.

Hunter and hawk were looking for food and food is life for god created it that way, moral story is God listens to the prayers of the just!

shivraj · 05-29-2009, 03:52 PM

You are suggesting that, what God should do?..

Who are we to suggest that?

"He who thinks that this slays
and he who thinks that this is slain;
both of them fail to perceive the truth;
this one neither slays nor is slain. "
That is the truth about death.

Namaste.

newsbone · 05-30-2009, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shivraj

You are suggesting that, what God should do?..

Who are we to suggest that?

"He who thinks that this slays
and he who thinks that this is slain;
both of them fail to perceive the truth;
this one neither slays nor is slain. "
That is the truth about death.

Namaste.

Then there is no reason for prayer if we cant tell God what we want done!

Daffy Duck · 05-30-2009, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newsbone

Then there is no reason for prayer if we cant tell God what we want done!

I always thought prayer was more about me listening to God, rather than me telling Him what to do. I just trusted that with God everything would work out. I didn't need to tell God what to do because He already had His plans...

Silly me -- I figured He knew better!

To me, prayer is about speaking gratitude. Thanking God. I don't sit there asking for things. And if I do ask, I don't ask more than once. I think He would hear us the first time, even before our lips move...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus

But when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him.

God is much more than a genie in a bottle.

newsbone · 05-30-2009, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

I always thought prayer was more about me listening to God, rather than me telling Him what to do. I just trusted that with God everything would work out. I didn't need to tell God what to do because He already had His plans...

Silly me -- I figured He knew better!

To me, prayer is about speaking gratitude. Thanking God. I don't sit there asking for things. And if I do ask, I don't ask more than once. I think He would hear us the first time, even before our lips move...

God is much more than a genie in a bottle.

9"This, then, is how you should pray:
" 'Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
11Give us today our daily bread.
12Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.
MATTHEW 6.
I have taken the trouble of boldening the demands that Jesus permitted of us.

Daffy Duck · 05-30-2009, 06:25 AM

Demands? You definitely interpret Jesus' words differently than I ever did.

I think the most powerful thing prayer can do is change OUR minds. It's not changing God's mind.

"Oh, Daffy wants the Yankees to win. Okay I'll take care of that..."

newsbone · 05-30-2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Demands? You definitely interpret Jesus' words differently than I ever did.

I think the most powerful thing prayer can do is change OUR minds. It's not changing God's mind.

"Oh, Daffy wants the Yankees to win. Okay I'll take care of that..."

It is a little bit more complicated than that for it has to be within his will (read purpose) and i dont think the Yankees count much when it comes to that.

Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
Elijah was a man just like us. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years.
Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops.
JAMES 5: 16-18.
I honestly think you either misunderstand or misinterprate the power and purpose of prayer.

pianoperformer · 05-30-2009, 11:48 AM

Newsbone, I also think you misunderstand, because you said it is only for requesting.

Tell me, if you had a relationship with someone where you only asked for things from them, but never did anything for them yourself, how long do you think this relationship would last?

Now if you regularly thanked and praised them for all the blessings you have in life, also listened to what this person had to say, and still asked for things this person would be willing to do, would not this relationship be much more balanced and healthy?

I totally agree with daffy, though don't think it's only for being grateful or listening, though again that's a huge part of it. I have begged God to be there for me through hard times, and to provide me comfort, and he has certainly provided that for me.

Certainly I ask thing ssometimes that I shouldn't, and I'm still trying to find that balance. But goodness don't you feel bad when your prayer consists completely of requests? I certainly do.

Moreover, why would he grant us anything if we don't thank him and show gratefulness for the wonderful blessings we already have? Seems a bit greedy on our end.

newsbone · 05-30-2009, 11:53 AM

Oh Oh no! Did i say that? Cant remember using such an absolute term.

pianoperformer · 05-30-2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newsbone

Oh Oh no! Did i say that? Cant remember using such an absolute term.

Allow me to refresh your memory:

Quote:

Originally Posted by newsbone

Then there is no reason for prayer if we cant tell God what we want done!

So you are basically saying there is no point to praying unless we tell God what we want him to do for us.

You may have misspoken, but this is what you said.

newsbone · 05-30-2009, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

Allow me to refresh your memory:

So you are basically saying there is no point to praying unless we tell God what we want him to do for us.

You may have misspoken, but this is what you said.

And i still stand by that statement, the question should rather be 'Are demands the only components of prayer?'. Sure it is part and parcel of it but not 'the only'.

pianoperformer · 05-30-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newsbone

And i still stand by that statement, the question should rather be 'Are demands the only components of prayer?'. Sure it is part and parcel of it but not 'the only'.

Exactly, but just pointing out that the way you said it, logically would make anyone think you thought it was the only, or at least most important, part of prayer.

Maybe you do think it is the most important. I disagree though.

newsbone · 05-30-2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

Exactly, but just pointing out that the way you said it, logically would make anyone think you thought it was the only, or at least most important, part of prayer.

Maybe you do think it is the most important. I disagree though.

Looking at the thread from the first post i think my stand was basically to answer or rather to get the second perspective of the thread, and i guess i have done just that;can you please read the OP and tell me what you think of the hunter and the hawk, do they deserve what they got having in mind they may have prayed to the same God for food?

pianoperformer · 05-30-2009, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newsbone

Looking at the thread from the first post i think my stand was basically to answer or rather to get the second perspective of the thread, and i guess i have done just that;can you please read the OP and tell me what you think of the hunter and the hawk, do they deserve what they got having in mind they may have prayed to the same God for food?

Obviously I can't know God's intentions. But considering that for animals or humans to eat, some life has to die, well then I'd say neither the hunter nor the hawk deserved what they got.

Daffy Duck · 05-30-2009, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newsbone

It is a little bit more complicated than that for it has to be within his will.

I think God's will would be done, regardless if some humans asked for it. If God is God, how can His will NOT be done?

Everyone, please don't misunderstand me -- I don't think prayer is only for listening and being grateful. I treat God just like I treat a best friend -- I talk about anything and everything. But usually I spend most of my time just talking about how good things are and how grateful I am for them.

And when I "ask" God for something, I realize that I'm not really asking God... because I already have the tools given to me. When I ask God for anything, I'm actually asking myself to let it and make it happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by newsbone

I honestly think you either misunderstand or misinterprate the power and purpose of prayer.

Yeah, I figured. You seem to think that about everyone who says anything different than you. You have developed your own personal Christian denomination. And just like other denominations claim, everyone else misunderstands!

pianoperformer · 05-30-2009, 03:30 PM

Daffy,

That's really great. I'm working on that myself. I feel like I spend way too much time focused on what I want, and not enough on thanking God for what I already have.

You bring up a good point though, about treating God like a best friend. I wondered if you or anyone thought this might be disrespectful?

I mean I do the same thing. I spend 10-15 minutes in prayer, often times talking about my worries and asking for help to deal with them. It's really nice since that's about the only time I get to do that.

But God, in my view, has always been a caring, protective father for me. I've mentioned before how much I've relied on God when I've felt alone or when I didn't know how something was going to work out, and then be amazed to see everything come together just right.

Of course other people take more of the stand that God is to be feared, etc, and that we should always be begging for forgiveness for our sins. Of course I do ask for forgiveness, or another chance, when I do mess up, but that's just not my primary focus.

Wow, this could almost be another thread, asking, what is your relationship with God like?

Daffy Duck · 05-30-2009, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

I've mentioned before how much I've relied on God when I've felt alone or when I didn't know how something was going to work out, and then be amazed to see everything come together just right.

Same here.

Quote:

Of course I do ask for forgiveness, or another chance, when I do mess up, but that's just not my primary focus.

I'm the same. When I pray, that's also usually the time I focus on forgiving any resentments I might have towards others and myself.

Quote:

Wow, this could almost be another thread, asking, what is your relationship with God like?

Sounds like a good one to me...

newsbone · 05-30-2009, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

I think God's will would be done, regardless if some humans asked for it. If God is God, how can His will NOT be done?

Adam ate the apple so much for his! You seem to always forget one thing God’s will is never forced unto people, you choose to let it happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

I think God's will would be done, regardless if some humans asked for it. If God is God, how can His will NOT be done?

Everyone, please don't misunderstand me -- I don't think prayer is only for listening and being grateful. I treat God just like I treat a best friend -- I talk about anything and everything. But usually I spend most of my time just talking about how good things are and how grateful I am for them.

I wont judge your relationship with God because it is a personal thing and I cant be the judge of that, but if you sin (break God’s law) or change it to suit you then you are not his friend;
No one calls on your name or strives to lay hold of you; for you have hidden your face from us and made us waste away because of our sins. Isaiah 64:7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

And when I "ask" God for something, I realize that I'm not really asking God... because I already have the tools given to me. When I ask God for anything, I'm actually asking myself to let it and make it happen.

Yes he says I will bless the works of your hand but the issue of praying but asking yourself is a little bit farfetched.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Yeah, I figured. You seem to think that about everyone who says anything different than you. You have developed your own personal Christian denomination. And just like other denominations claim, everyone else misunderstands!

Am not responsible for your assumptions! You think that is what am thinking funny it is coming from you. I don’t have a denomination neither am I thinking of starting one what I do is to share my belief with you people and am not sorry we don’t agree or see things your way.

pianoperformer · 05-30-2009, 05:01 PM

Goodness, newsbone, you are rather militant. Maybe try toning it down a bit?

Instead of accusing people of not being God's friend and sinning, why not say where you think they have gone wrong in your view? I mean what really has daffy said that is so wrong?

I think we can have a good discussion without having accusatory remarks being thrown around, no?

shivraj · 05-30-2009, 05:13 PM

Everything is in God's hands. He is the greatest puppetier. His puppets are all living and non living things in the universe. He plays with living things by giving egos and thoughts for particular action.. He orders thief to steal .. at the same time he tells police to stop that .. Nobody in the world knows his maya(illusion)..

Prayer is one of the way to get rid of that illusion..

Namaste.

Daffy Duck · 05-30-2009, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newsbone

Adam ate the apple so much for his!

Does the Bible actually say it was an apple or are you just adding things to God's Word?

Quote:

Yes he says I will bless the works of your hand but the issue of praying but asking yourself is a little bit farfetched.

If God has already given us what we need, then it is asking ourselves.

If I give you bread, but you keep asking me for food, then aren't you the one with the problem?

I don't ask God for bread when I already have some. Instead, I try to realize that I already have bread. Likewise, when I need strength or wisdom, I start to realize that God/Life has already given me these things.

Quote:

Am not responsible for your assumptions!

I'm not assuming anything. You've said that your way, which is your own "personal denomination," is the correct interpretation. You sound just like any other denomination, because they all say the same thing. "Our way is right -- everyone else is interpreting it wrong!" Yep, sounds familiar.

themaster · 06-02-2009, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

I once prayed for Humility and Patience. Two weeks later I was laid off and unemployed for nine months.

lol

newsbone · 06-02-2009, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Does the Bible actually say it was an apple or are you just adding things to God's Word?

Open minded

05-26-2009, 11:17 AM	#1 (permalink)
shivraj Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: India Posts: 263	Power of Prayer Some pigeons used to sit on a tree in a park. Suddenly danger started lingering on these pigeons. A hunter began to frequent the park. Every time he came, he hunted down a pigeon to take home. One day, two pigeons were sitting on the tree. They saw the hunter come towards them, at the same time they also saw a hawk hovering above. It was a frightening situation. Both of them said to each other, "Now what do we do? If we continue to sit here the hunter's arrow can pierce us, and if we take off in the sky the hawk may catch us." Then one of them said, "There is only one way to get out of this situation - prayer. Come, let us pray together." The other said, "There is no use praying now. The time to pray has already passed." The first one replied, "It is never too late to pray." Whenever we remember we can at least pray with feeling, understanding and reverence to be saved from the calamity. As soon as they finished praying, they saw that the hunter was aiming at them. When he was just about to release the arrow, a scorpion bit him. The arrow left the bow, went up straight into the sky and hit the hawk. This was the result of their prayer. They got rid of both their enemies in one stroke. In the most difficult of situations, when decision-making seems difficult or you need more time to decide, do not forget to pray, even though you do not see any signs of your prayer getting fulfilled.... Namaste.

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05-26-2009, 11:52 AM	#2 (permalink)
newsbone Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Kampala-Uganda, Malaba-Kenya, Kigali-Rwanda. Posts: 985	The most disheartening part was that both the hunter and the hawk had prayed for food, were praying to the same god?

05-26-2009, 08:46 PM	#4 (permalink)
SimonaRich Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: London, United Kingdom Posts: 912	I don't really pray but I ask for guidance of angels during difficult situations. So yes, maybe it is prayer but not the way religious people do. I just ask for guidance of that situation and I always - Always get it.

05-28-2009, 03:44 AM	#5 (permalink)
Mato Kinze Family Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 1,100	I've become very careful what I pray for. I once prayed for Humility and Patience. Two weeks later I was laid off and unemployed for nine months. I've learned that if you pray for Strength, you will be given burdens to strengthen you. If you pray for Patience, you will be made to wait. If you pray for Humility, you will be humbled. If you pray for Courage, your courage will be tested. So, now I pray for Mercy, Love, and Understanding. Now, I'm given opportunities to be merciful, people to love, and insight into myself and others. I like this way of being much better.

05-28-2009, 05:21 PM	#6 (permalink)
shivraj Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: India Posts: 263	Prayer is the great power. Things start attracting towards us by heartful prayer. New opportunities come, new understanding we get.. I firmly belive on prayers. It's the conversation with God and God talks with me in the form of intuition and happy surprises comes in my life. Thanks.

05-29-2009, 03:52 PM	#9 (permalink)
shivraj Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: India Posts: 263	You are suggesting that, what God should do?.. Who are we to suggest that? "He who thinks that this slays and he who thinks that this is slain; both of them fail to perceive the truth; this one neither slays nor is slain. " That is the truth about death. Namaste.

05-30-2009, 06:25 AM	#13 (permalink)
Daffy Duck Banned Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,001	Demands? You definitely interpret Jesus' words differently than I ever did. I think the most powerful thing prayer can do is change OUR minds. It's not changing God's mind. "Oh, Daffy wants the Yankees to win. Okay I'll take care of that..."

05-30-2009, 11:48 AM	#15 (permalink)
pianoperformer Love in Action (Mod) Join Date: May 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,527	Newsbone, I also think you misunderstand, because you said it is only for requesting. Tell me, if you had a relationship with someone where you only asked for things from them, but never did anything for them yourself, how long do you think this relationship would last? Now if you regularly thanked and praised them for all the blessings you have in life, also listened to what this person had to say, and still asked for things this person would be willing to do, would not this relationship be much more balanced and healthy? I totally agree with daffy, though don't think it's only for being grateful or listening, though again that's a huge part of it. I have begged God to be there for me through hard times, and to provide me comfort, and he has certainly provided that for me. Certainly I ask thing ssometimes that I shouldn't, and I'm still trying to find that balance. But goodness don't you feel bad when your prayer consists completely of requests? I certainly do. Moreover, why would he grant us anything if we don't thank him and show gratefulness for the wonderful blessings we already have? Seems a bit greedy on our end.

05-30-2009, 11:53 AM	#16 (permalink)
newsbone Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Kampala-Uganda, Malaba-Kenya, Kigali-Rwanda. Posts: 985	Oh Oh no! Did i say that? Cant remember using such an absolute term.

05-30-2009, 03:30 PM	#23 (permalink)
pianoperformer Love in Action (Mod) Join Date: May 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,527	Daffy, That's really great. I'm working on that myself. I feel like I spend way too much time focused on what I want, and not enough on thanking God for what I already have. You bring up a good point though, about treating God like a best friend. I wondered if you or anyone thought this might be disrespectful? I mean I do the same thing. I spend 10-15 minutes in prayer, often times talking about my worries and asking for help to deal with them. It's really nice since that's about the only time I get to do that. But God, in my view, has always been a caring, protective father for me. I've mentioned before how much I've relied on God when I've felt alone or when I didn't know how something was going to work out, and then be amazed to see everything come together just right. Of course other people take more of the stand that God is to be feared, etc, and that we should always be begging for forgiveness for our sins. Of course I do ask for forgiveness, or another chance, when I do mess up, but that's just not my primary focus. Wow, this could almost be another thread, asking, what is your relationship with God like?

05-30-2009, 05:01 PM	#26 (permalink)
pianoperformer Love in Action (Mod) Join Date: May 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,527	Goodness, newsbone, you are rather militant. Maybe try toning it down a bit? Instead of accusing people of not being God's friend and sinning, why not say where you think they have gone wrong in your view? I mean what really has daffy said that is so wrong? I think we can have a good discussion without having accusatory remarks being thrown around, no?

05-30-2009, 05:13 PM	#27 (permalink)
shivraj Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: India Posts: 263	Everything is in God's hands. He is the greatest puppetier. His puppets are all living and non living things in the universe. He plays with living things by giving egos and thoughts for particular action.. He orders thief to steal .. at the same time he tells police to stop that .. Nobody in the world knows his maya(illusion).. Prayer is one of the way to get rid of that illusion.. Namaste.

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