Subjective reality and other people

[Ezekiel2517]

In an objective reality we assume that everybody is conscious in the same way we are. What happens to this assumption when we adopt a subjective model of reality?

I have read Steve's articles on this and am still none the wiser.

I'd be greatful to hear your thoughts on this.

[themaster]

The objective I guess is the norm.. you accept other people, they accept you as real (technically our imagination and scientists say we could be in a super computer as simulations.. aka the matrix)

Subjective I believe is basically saying everything comes from the self.. which is in fact my truth on the issue.. it is my understanding that people such as yourself our real but our my version of your energy in this reality.. welcome

[SimonaRich]

In subjective reality other people are the reflections of you, so whatever character features you have you bring up in others too. They are conscious too but you attract only the ones that are in the same vibration as you are, except when you are in a relationship with someone and that person changes or you change. Then you might be on different vibrations but still together because of the agreement. That's at least how I understand it.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Ezekiel2517

In an objective reality we assume that everybody is conscious in the same way we are. What happens to this assumption when we adopt a subjective model of reality?

The first part you have to accept (if you subscribe to SR) is that you are not in or of your own physical body. Consciousness is the unseen, unmanifested energy that builds reality, including all the bodies. It's what you are and it just so happens there is a body which you have direct control over.

Because you're the only conscious being here (not inside or of your human body) then everything in you awareness is actually you and of your own creation. Nothing outside your present moment awareness exists. Your perception of this moment is the only thing that exists.

You have control over everything in your reality, but not from your limited human mind/brain and ego, but from the overall conscious being approach to reality.

Other people are not conscious because consciousness is not inside any body including your own. Consciousness doesn't arise from human minds or bodies, all of that arises from consciousness.

Many people who consider SR as a POV, usually confuse it with Solipisim which is the POV that you are indeed the only conscious being, but it's all arising from your human mind/brain, that is not SR or at least not eh SP version I subscribe to.

SR is a noodle baker for sure, because it means you are essentially god, but have chosen to limit your god powers to experience what it's like to not be god.

The real challenge within SR is mostly all the other people who seem to exist.

Judge

[joelr]

Originally Posted by Ezekiel2517

In an objective reality we assume that everybody is conscious in the same way we are. What happens to this assumption when we adopt a subjective model of reality?

I have read Steve's articles on this and am still none the wiser.

I'd be greatful to hear your thoughts on this.

To each his own of course but I think an important connection in physics is being overlooked.

Most LOA followers are happy to point out connections between quantum theory and LOA when it comes to mind over matter but seem to ignore what QT has to say about the experience of reality. The many worlds theory is currently the leading interpretation of reality and allows for some level of objective reality.

Consciousness "tunes" into the physical world through a physical body but depending on thoughts/beliefs will tune into versions that match energy.

It's one way to look at the problem.

Funny that it's called the physical world. When we touch an object it's really just energy repelling energy.

[spacedout]

To put it succinctly, when you are in a subjective state of awareness there are no objects. Basically, you are the totality of all that is. However, objectivity is like the saying, "You can't see the forest for the trees." In the case of objectivity, you can't see reality because of objects - objects keep getting in the way of reality much like the trees are getting in the way of seeing the forest. Subjective experience is pure awareness where everything is in the present moment, everything is one, and there is no judgment of anything.







Pureawareness.info. Pure Awareness

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by Ezekiel2517

In an objective reality we assume that everybody is conscious in the same way we are. What happens to this assumption when we adopt a subjective model of reality?

Basically whatever you assume "subjective" to mean is what happens.

Subjective generally means: "taking place within the mind and modified by individual bias."

But that can mean so many things because the mind is a mercurial thing. It has no limits, unless you consider awareness a form of limitation.

For example, it could mean (but not necessarily):

• Everybody stops existing when you're not looking at them.
  
• Everybody is part of you.
  
• Your mind is much more complex than you realize and that what you perceive as you "conscious self" is but a small portion of an incredibly big iceberg of consciousness.
  
• Reality is not external to you.
  
• What you identify as "you" might not be the "real you".

It really all depends on what you think your "mind" is, because subjective just means it arises from your mind rather than something "separate" or "external" to whatever it is "you" are.

[Piercetheveil]

And the New Age most overused misused pop physics phrase award goes to :

quantum theory

Close second is anything with "meta" involved.

[joelr]

Originally Posted by Piercetheveil

And the New Age most overused misused pop physics phrase award goes to :

quantum theory

Close second is anything with "meta" involved.

Point out the misuse if you can. Do you know when it should or not be used? I was studying physics well before The Secret/What the Bleep came out on film and sparked a resurgence in LOA.

Used to be called YCYR - you create your reality.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Ezekiel2517

In an objective reality we assume that everybody is conscious in the same way we are. What happens to this assumption when we adopt a subjective model of reality?

usually it seems people start to imagine other people are not conscious and you are the only one conscious.

I would say take subjective to another level and assume none of us are really conscious as we think we are. whatever thoughts are running in your head are illusions of a grand play that everyone/everything is playing out. There is only one consciousness and it isn't the normal individual consciousness we think we have and identify with as "me".

[Piercetheveil]

Yes Joel, I can. Along with the misapplication of chaos theory and the butterfly effect that goes on in business circles. However, that is only because when I was 19 I was giving a business talk to entrepreneurs and was trying to pull from scientific theory to beef up a few of my points. I was "encouraged" by a biologist that perhaps I should get a few science folks as advisers if I wanted to continue that path. I did along with a higher ed path in neuroscience.

I happen to be in agreement with you.

It happened to strike a funny chord that I had to share about new age material in general not you.

[seeds]

Originally Posted by Ezekiel2517

In an objective reality we assume that everybody is conscious in the same way we are. What happens to this assumption when we adopt a subjective model of reality?

I have read Steve's articles on this and am still none the wiser.

I'd be greatful to hear your thoughts on this.

Ezekiel2517,

The only thing that can be called "subjective reality" as far as we are concerned, is the contents of our own minds. To believe anything other than that is a subjective delusion.

All of your thoughts, memories, dreams and mental images; everything that makes up the totality of the inner dimension of your own personal consciousness (your mind), is "subjective reality" to you.

Everything else of this universe outside of your personal consciousness (including your body) is "objective reality" to you.

But realize, the universe is still a phenomenon of "subjective" reality. Why? Because it is subjective to God.

Just as the contents of your own personal mind belong only to you and no other being, likewise, the contents of the universe (excluding your mind) belong only to God.

What I am saying is that reality can be either subjective or objective depending on your particular perspective of it at any given moment.

However, the bottom line is -- there is no ultimate "objective" reality. All realities (of the phenomenal sort) are "subjective" to consciousness in one form or another.

Again, to drive the point home:

That which is objective reality to us in the universe, is subjective reality to God.

But here's the kicker:

That which is subjective reality to us in our minds, in turn, is objective reality to God.

The "autonomy" of our own individual minds is that complete.

Your sibling,

seeds

[Footballman]

For me the biggest question to do with all this is....is everyone else conscious? In my opinion I am going to use common sense...I think they are - I would hate to be the only conscious person in my reality to be honest - I'd much rather share life with other conscious beings. I don't think other people are merely manifestations of me, and I don't think I'm the only one that exists.

I do think we all share some sort of connection, a connection to 'source' I would say..which allows us to be creative and connect to the universe or our spiritual potential...but I think this is something we all share.

I agree with SimonaRich, that we're all subjective tuning forks...and we tend to attract others that are sharing beliefs that we have...and then when we change our beliefs...we start attracting, or at least noticing other people who share our new beliefs.

Would you agree with me?

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by vader

In subjective reality (as generally presented here) there are no conscious people including your own body/mind. People are not conscious, only consciousnes is and you can never fully describe what it is, only ever experience it.

Just thought I'd add those points

V

But aren't people made up of consciousness from your perspective? Wouldn't that make them conscious as well?

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by vader

No, because I, as in my body/mind is not conscious and/or consciousness, therefore there are no conscious people including the body/mind I may consider is consciousness.

What is the difference between your body/mind and the field of consciousness you are talking about?

You say that even your own body mind is not conscious, but isn't your perspective always from your body mind? Has there ever been a point in your existence that you remember as not being from the perspective of your body mind?

I guess I'm confused because I could have sworn you've said on multiple occasions that you are not advocating solipsism, yet that's all I see in what you write.

For example, solipsism is the idea that everyone else is unconscious, and YOU are the only conscious ego. As far as I can tell, from your perspective YOU are always inhabiting one individuated perspective -- one first person perspective. Or, in otherwords, an ego perspective.

And from that vantage point, there are NO other first person perspectives, right?

That is solipsism right? Not that there is anything wrong with that, just trying to understand your perspective more fully.

Definitions of solipsism on the Web:

* (philosophy) the philosophical theory that the self is all that you know to exist
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

* Solipsism (Latin: solus, alone + ipse, self) is the philosophical idea that "My mind is the only thing that I know exists." Solipsism is an epistemological or metaphysical position that knowledge of anything outside the mind is unjustified. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism

* solipsist - One who adheres to the theory of solipsism; Of, or pertaining to, solipsism
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/solipsist

* solipsistic - of, relating to, or being solipsism
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/solipsistic

* the view confining reality to oneself and one's experiences.
Glosario de términos filosóficos - Glossary of Philosophical Terms (Cuaderno de materiales)

* ( in solipsism ) ...sense, the extreme form of subjective idealism that denies that the human mind has any valid ground for believing in the ...
Appearance and Reality: A Metaphysical Essay (work by Bradley) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

* A form of SCEPTICISM. Solipsism is the belief that nothing exists except my mind and the creations of my mind.
Glossary Of Technical Terms

* philosophical position that I alone exist or I alone am conscious
gsrjr.ncat.edu/bio-psy/glossarybioch1.rtf

* The notion that it is impossible ever to know another person, so why bother? This ends up in an absolute egotism a refusal to acknowledge the needs or even existence of others.
royal-holloway.org.uk/ltsn/english/events/past/staffs/Holland_Arrowsmith/Critical%20Concepts%20edit.htm

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by vader

There's nothing wrong with ego or solipsism as long as they are seen as tools like thought and emotion that can be used and then set down.

I don't think the challenge is to transend current conditions, but instead to see the projection as being a projection and working within it for conscious growth.

V

What if thoughts and emotions are just experiences that come and go? Not tools under your true nature's volition to be used? They are events in time like the weather. perhpas

Conscious growth may be a falsity in that we imagine something to get to in the future instead of being in realization now. I'm not saying I am realized, no - but I don't approach consciousness as something that I need to work on making it grow. I do think transcending is not a goal either - but is the realization or a peak experience that sticks instead of just becomes a memory of somthing cool that happened and then we are left to work at getting there again.

[wolfgang]

I do approach consciousness as something that I need to work on allowing to grow.