Evil or Good, what/who determines?

[jeff3]

"Out beyond rightdoing and wrongdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there."
Jelaluddin Rumi (1207-1273).


We live in a world of duality, hard-soft, hot-cold, masculine-feminine, right-wrong, positive negative. The material world requires this to function, we need friction to move about. When I watch a movie on the silver screen I can readily determine who is the good guy and who is the bad guy, what is good and what is evil. Sometimes it takes a while to see that killing Mr.Smith saved a whole country, but when it is realized it re-frames my perspective.

When the movie is over I realize it was all a play, that I am really fine, an asteroid or (insert calamity here) is not going to kill me. That does not keep me from becoming emotionally invested in the movie or learning something from it or, simply being entertained by it.

All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts,
William Shakespeare

The quote by Rumi refers to the place beyond the play, where we will see that ,sure, there was good and bad, right and wrong, but from the souls eye view it was nothing. You can go to this place in meditation and bring a little of it back with you each time. The thing to keep in mind is that suffering is temporal and thus temporary and things that are very disturbing to us now may seem to be only a bump in the road from an eternal perspective. Does this ease suffering? It does for me.

[LOANow]

I wrote on this at length in my article The Real Struggle Between Good And Evil Facing Mankind Today so am fresh from thinking about these issues.

IMHO the only real Good is based in Awareness, Consciousness and being Connected to the Universe and Creator. Conversely Evil is rooted in being Unaware or oblivious, Unconscious and Disconnected from the Universe and it's Creator.

I will let you read my post if you choose to explore this further...

Jim

[pushbutton]

It's a very interesting question that no doubt could be answered in 100000 different ways.

But at the end of the day simple common sense tells us that what is "good" and "evil" is usually determined by values which the majority of people in a community / society share, or even more fundamentally, by what most people would or wouldn't want done to them.

For example:

1. the vast majority of people would not want someone to murder them (comes down to basic survival instinct) and therefore we say that it is wrong, or evil to murder someone.

2. The majority of people would not want others to deprive them of their property without permission, and so we say it's wrong to steal.

3. The majority of people don't like to be violently assaulated, or raped. We therefore say those things are also wrong, or evil.

These things also tend to form the basis of probably the majority of our laws too.

Just common sense!

On the other hand, I guess another, deeper way of looking at it is that the above examples are merely actions (to kill someone, to take someones property, or to punch or kick or forcibly have sex with someone). You might say that perhaps none of these actions are in themselves inherently evil.

I would say evil comes from intentions that motivate people to do things (with unjustifiable malice towards another person). Then again, who or what determines whether any malice is justified or not? People who do things with malice towards another almost always believe that their actions are justified.

As an example of how one of the above "wrong" actions could be "right", you might take something belonging to someone else but do it in order to help somebody. A real life example I once saw was that a man fell down some concrete steps and was bleeding very heavily. I saw somebody run into a nearby shop that they knew sold bandages and other first aid gear, and rush out of the shop without paying for it in order to use it to assist the bleeding man. Technically that was shoplifting, but it was not evil because it was not done for evil reasons.

Another example might be when somebody kills someone in order to save them from suffering. Legally it might be regarded as murder, or manslaughter. But morally in some circumstances, some people might consider it a "good" thing to do.

That leads me to wonder though, what about when someone steals something they want (just for their own use) but they have no bad intentions towards the person they stole it from. Is that evil?

[themaster]

Originally Posted by pushbutton

That leads me to wonder though, what about when someone steals something they want (just for their own use) but they have no bad intentions towards the person they stole it from. Is that evil?

Not by my definition.. but there are a lot of definitions on the planet

I heard something brilliant yesterday about death.. in essence it went.. "all your deaths are suicides from our perspective.. because you all choose when you die"

I also heard it said a second way/this way..

"You are all part of a great play/stage performance.. when the theater curtain goes down.. you all drop your props and go have a party/celebration!"

These our ideas about death, after-life and good/evil all in one.. maybe you can make sense of e'm

[seeds]

Originally Posted by themaster

I do know that for certain.. seeds.. I'm going to ask you to defend your position with one simple question.. (maybe two )

Tell me how to not in-validate millions of re-incarnation memories of millions of peoples on this earth without shrugging your shoulders or just saying there crazy?

Take it one step further.. tell me your theory on how to not invalidate these experiences claimed by some people on our planet?
- Alien abductions?
- Bigfoot citings?
- Ghost Sitings?
Since the list goes on and on.. a quickie list then
- Astral Projection, Out of Body Experiences, Remote Viewing, Spoon Bending, the philadelphia experiment

themaster,

This feels like new thread territory to me. However, I will try to defend my position under the following condition: that you know that I know that we both know that all of us could be absolutely wrong in our beliefs.

Also, I must preface the following with another quote from you from an alternate thread -- Pure Awareness,Creation,Creator,Individual Awareness:

Don't know Quantum Physics.. I guess I would say "I could care less"..

If you aren’t going to put forth the effort in trying to understand what the physicists are saying about the "fabric" that forms our reality, then let those of us who have, convey to you the fruits of our efforts. Also keep in mind that quantum physics is just one piece of the "grand philosophical puzzle."

I will address your questions one at a time starting with “why people seem to be having memories of past lives.”

I believe that our minds and the mind of God (the universe) operate under the same “holographic-like” principles.

Within the inner dimensions of our own minds there appears to be a holographic-like informational matrix that underpins the billions of mental images that form our thoughts and dreams, in the same way as the holographic-like matrix of the universe (the "quantum") underpins the stars and the planets.

Furthermore, it has been suggested in certain neurological studies that the informational underpinning of our mind is “phase-entangled” similar to the “entanglement” of the subatomic realm so often mentioned in quantum theory.

Just as the stars and planets exist in a state of interpenetrating "oneness" at the quantum level of the universe, likewise, at the deepest level of our minds, there is no separation of the objects forming our thoughts and dreams. They only appear to have separation (inward “objectivity”) when our consciousness (the eye of our mind) is looking at them.

Now in the “outer” reality of God’s mind (again, the universe), there are human bodies and physical structures that form the phenomenal basis of any event that occurs on earth, all held together and founded upon the informational framework of the quantum underpinning.

And according to quantum theory, the quantum "patterns of information" that formed the framework of any past event in the history of the universe, from the beginning of the universe until now, still exist in a state of “oneness” at the fundamental level of the universe itself

For an extremely “loose” analogy of that, think of objective reality as being analogous to what is appearing up on your computer monitor, and the quantum realm as being analogous to the information inscribed in your computer's hard drive.

As the program runs, the information is transformed into instant-by-instant observable objects on the screen. However, the information that previously described the earlier objects is no longer in play, and no longer displays the particular attributes of those objects as they appeared moments earlier. But the point is, the information still exists in the hard drive.

What that means (according to certain interpretations of quantum theory) is that an event that occurred a million years ago on earth (or anywhere else in the universe) still exists as a field of quantum information (a cosmic "memory" of it, if you will) that is seamlessly entangled with the quantum information that forms your body. It is part of you, and you are part of it. And through the quantum, you are “instantly connected" to every aspect of the universe, "past" and "present."

With the above in mind, I believe that because the quantum information forming our bodies is seamlessly interwoven with the quantum information forming any event that has ever occurred in the history of earth, that it is possible that certain human minds are more sensitive (more “attuned”) to that information.

In essence (via chance, hypnosis, past life regression techniques, or whatever), some humans can subconsciously interface with the quantum informational field (literally accessing the equivalent of a "memory" in God's mind) and mistakenly interpret something that had happened to another person in the past as being a memory of something that had happened to them.

Furthermore, they can experience the circumstances surrounding those past lives to the point of seeing physical locations, addresses, names, faces, or anything else pertaining to a past life of another human, because everything that has ever happened, or ever existed (especially on this earth) is right here with us, incorporated into the informational fabric of our very own “physical” construction.

So humans are indeed experiencing memories of past lives, just not their "own" past life

Now to me, that is a plausible alternative to “reincarnation” and, hopefully, provides a reasonable answer to your first question without me "shrugging my shoulders or just saying they're crazy."

In my next post, I will tackle your other questions.

Your sibling,

seeds

[themaster]

Originally Posted by seeds

stuff..

That's a lot of complexity for what should be able to be typed in a single sentence

Originally Posted by seeds

Furthermore, they can experience the circumstances surrounding those past lives to the point of seeing physical locations, addresses, names, faces, or anything else pertaining to a past life of another human, because everything that has ever happened, or ever existed (especially on this earth) is right here with us, incorporated into the informational fabric of our very own “physical” construction.

So humans are indeed experiencing memories of past lives, just not their "own" past life

Exactly what is the difference between this idea.. and the idea that all beings are the same being.. why even have such a special framework?? if were all the same particle/god.. Can't we just access more of ourselves without complex "quantum crap"??

[GuideMySpirit]

Good and Evil both exist on this plane for the reason of learning and evolving. It is the way of how this density works and always will work in other dimensions. It was known in the Egyptian times that the people of their time were not progressing because they didn't understand their life lesson, and were really isolated in simply working for a heirachy. Not to get to far into that, but then a new order arose known as 'Lucifer' to inflict damage and chaos in order for people to learn faster...obviously the order got out of hand and it's what you see today with all the terrorism. But thats the idea of evil and good, it's necessary but only to grow from. You don't know hot until you know cold.

[seeds]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by themaster

seeds.. I'm going to ask you to defend your position with one simple question.. (maybe two )

Tell me how to not in-validate millions of re-incarnation memories of millions of peoples on this earth without shrugging your shoulders or just saying there crazy?

Take it one step further.. tell me your theory on how to not invalidate these experiences claimed by some people on our planet?
- Alien abductions?
- Bigfoot citings?
- Ghost Sitings?
Since the list goes on and on.. a quickie list then
- Astral Projection, Out of Body Experiences, Remote Viewing, Spoon Bending, the philadelphia experiment

themaster,

I have already addressed the subject of reincarnation, so let's move on through your list:

Alien abductions:

A feasible possibility.

According to estimates, there are approximately a hundred billion galaxies in the universe, each filled with a hundred billion solar systems.

So it is ludicrous to think that there are no other intelligent beings in the universe.

However, I say they are not “aliens” in the science fiction sense. They would be our "siblings."

And even if we went by reincarnation concepts, they would merely be entities just like us, incarnating to experience the phenomena of other planets.

And according to certain assertions in this thread, they incarnated to experience being "abductors" of us, while some of us incarnated to experience "being abducted."

However, what I personally believe regarding the notion of “aliens from outer space,” is that if they did happen to visit the earth in some super-advanced display of their technological prowess and superior cultural philosophy, it would be no different than us boxing up our computers, cd players, plasma screen televisions or whatever, and taking them into the jungle to confront a tribe of head hunters living in the stone age.

No matter how advanced we may seem relative to the head hunters, they are still our siblings. Likewise, so are the other beings throughout the universe (with us, in our so-called “advanced” societies, being the “head hunters” compared to them).

Even further yet, just as we in developed societies are extremely reticent to introduce advanced technology and ideas to a primitive tribe of humans for fear of disrupting their culture and psychological well being, perhaps our advanced siblings in outer space show the same caution regarding all the inhabitants of earth in general.

That also represents a good analogy of why God does not allow any absolute disclosures of the features of “true reality” to the inhabitants of the universe in general.

Your sibling,

seeds

[seeds]

Originally Posted by themaster

seeds..Take it one step further.. tell me your theory on how to not invalidate these experiences claimed by some people on our planet?
- Alien abductions?
- Bigfoot citings?
- Ghost Sitings?
Since the list goes on and on.. a quickie list then
- Astral Projection, Out of Body Experiences, Remote Viewing, Spoon Bending, the philadelphia experiment

themaster,

Bigfoot Sightings:

Whether Bigfoot exists or not (and I highly doubt that it does) it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with our eternal destiny.

You can muse over Bigfoot and other items of folklore if you wish (most of us do) but eventually we need to put down our “Encyclopedias of the Supernatural” and rise up into higher levels of consciousness.

Your sibling,

seeds

[seeds]

Originally Posted by themaster

seeds.. Take it one step further.. tell me your theory on how to not invalidate these experiences claimed by some people on our planet?
- Alien abductions?
- Bigfoot citings?
- Ghost Sitings?
Since the list goes on and on.. a quickie list then
- Astral Projection, Out of Body Experiences, Remote Viewing, Spoon Bending, the philadelphia experiment

themaster,

Ghost sightings:

I believe that ghost sightings have something to do with the quantum “memory field” that I mentioned in describing the alternative to reincarnation in a prior post.

With that in mind, I believe that when we experience an extremely powerful and emotionally charged event, we supercharge the imagery surrounding that event in such a way that the informational underpinning of our minds becomes more fixed and more strongly correlated, giving the mental imagery more brilliance and substantiality (similar to repetitive memorization procedures, just more abrupt and more intense).

That’s why soldiers are so haunted by what they have experienced in war. The horrifying imagery that they have witnessed is so powerfully charged that it just keeps appearing before their mind’s eye and won’t go away.

Now just transfer that phenomenon up to the higher level of God’s mind and apply it to the super-advanced “mental imagery” forming the very structures of what we call objective reality.

And when something profoundly emotional occurs such as a murder, or a rape, or anything that imbues a situation with strong emotional energy, I believe that the quantum underpinning of God’s mind also becomes supercharged; giving the quantum information that forms the situation itself, stronger correlations.

Therefore, what more “clairvoyant” humans are experiencing in ghost sightings are impressions made upon the physical surroundings where certain events occurred, causing the “quantum memory” to stand out more. However, at no time are they ever viewing the actual spirit and soul of the person(s) of whom the events are associated with.

(I believe) that the ultimate truth is, that just as our physical body could not exist in a state of “limbo” somewhere between the human womb and our birth into earth reality, likewise our spirit body (built for eternal existence) cannot exist in limbo somewhere between the universe (God’s “womb”) and true reality.

Ultimate reality is much more fixed and substantial (even more so than this reality). And God would never abandon any of us in such a way.

Your sibling,

seeds

[seeds]

Originally Posted by themaster

seeds..Take it one step further.. tell me your theory on how to not invalidate these experiences claimed by some people on our planet?
- Alien abductions?
- Bigfoot citings?
- Ghost Sitings?
Since the list goes on and on.. a quickie list then
- Astral Projection, Out of Body Experiences, Remote Viewing, Spoon Bending, the philadelphia experiment

themaster,

Astral Projection:

Totally feasible. Good luck with that.

Out of body experiences:

I feel like I’m half in and half out of my body all the time (and boy does my hair look stupid ).

Remote viewing:

Again, feasible. However I want to be totally in charge of any experiment to verify it. I want to write down something (that only I know) on a piece of paper at a separate location far away from the subject, and if they can tell me precisely what's on the paper, again and again in subsequent tests, I will be more apt to believe it.

Spoon bending:

A cheap parlor trick designed to fool the feeble minded (but nonetheless fun to watch). No matter how convincing it may appear to be, humans cannot grasp the substance of this objective reality and bend and shape it around at the mere assertion of their wills.

The Philadelphia experiment:

Once again, totally feasible.

Everything that we call reality, subjective or objective, is created out of mental imaging energy, capable of becoming anything "imaginable."

Anything that you can do with your imagination inside the inner dimension of your own mind can conceivably be performed on the substance composing matter. The trick is to access matter at the quantum level using quantum physics (what you so eloquently referred to as “crap”) and then change the patterns of information at the subatomic level to conform to anything you wish to see up at the objective level.

What that means is that anything that God has not initially provided as a “natural” substance woven into the fundamental fabric of the earth’s “informational matrix,” he now allows us to create it ourselves using the mathematical formulas of quantum mechanics. It just means that we are now able to create new “designer clays of creation” out of God’s original clays by accessing and reconfiguring his mental holography at the subatomic, informational level itself.

That’s why we now have such things as television, cell phones, satellites, computers, the Internet, lasers, CT scanners, superconductors, just to name a few, with no end in sight to the infinite creative potential we now possess over God’s mental holography. Again, everything is mental energy capable of becoming anything imaginable (within the bounds of propriety, of course).

What I mean by the “bounds of propriety” is that there is a limit to how much control God will allow us to possess over his mental essence. He is not going to let us create wild and illogical manifestations of objective reality with the same unbridled control available to our imaginations at the human level of consciousness. That would only breach the integrity of the order of the universe; order that God himself has created over billions of years of his existence in "full consciousness."

I did say that everything is “mental energy” capable of becoming anything imaginable. For God and his universe that is ultimately true. However, for us, the control over God's holography is limited to the boundaries established by God that are necessary for the preservation of universal order. We cannot push those boundaries too far without calling universal reality into question even more than what quantum physics has already done.

Furthermore, I would submit to you the chilling prospect of utter and absolute control over the reality of the universe (as possessed by God) in the hands of “knuckleheads.” With what control we have already been given we have managed to create cosmic weaponry that can destroy us and the earth many times over.

So the bizarre events surrounding the alleged Philadelphia experiment could conceivably be true. I can accept almost anything as being possible as long as it does not cross over into the realm of belief that humans can “directly” assert their wills over God’s own personal mental imaging energy – it does not belong to us.

(However, if it really did happen via some fluke involving the ideas of Einstein, Nikola Tesla, or other heavy weights of physics, don’t you think that the military would be all over it like flies on dung, and be killing people with it right now as we speak?)

Your sibling,

seeds

[seeds]

Originally Posted by themaster

seeds.. I'm going to ask you to defend your position with one simple question.. (maybe two )

Tell me how to not in-validate millions of re-incarnation memories of millions of peoples on this earth without shrugging your shoulders or just saying there crazy?

Take it one step further.. tell me your theory on how to not invalidate these experiences claimed by some people on our planet?
- Alien abductions?
- Bigfoot citings?
- Ghost Sitings?
Since the list goes on and on.. a quickie list then
- Astral Projection, Out of Body Experiences, Remote Viewing, Spoon Bending, the philadelphia experiment

My last 4 consecutive posts had little to do with the subject of this thread, but they are fun topics to talk about.

And even though themaster's questions to me were probably rhetorical, I gave them a shot.

This post, however, does address the thread topic: “Evil or Good, what/who determines?”

If we go by the often cited metaphor that the universe is a “dream-like” reality, then we are all "somnambulants," sleep-walking through life, performing our everyday routines under the false assumption that we are fully awake, when we are not.

And my point is that, metaphorically speaking, some of us are “light sleepers” and hover closer to the threshold of awakening from the dream, corresponding with higher consciousness and spirituality.

While on the other hand, others of us are “heavier sleepers” corresponding with lower consciousness and a deeper enchantment by the material illusion which, in turn, leads to the conduct that can appear as evilness when viewed from the higher perspectives. (In other words, some humans operate in the low and "nightmarish" realms of the "dream" metaphor, characterized by what we think of as "evil" and brutish behavior.)

However, the bottom line is there is no such “thing” as evil as if it were a "fixed" concept, or a “living entity” (a devil), or something you step in and can’t get off your shoe.

There are just God’s “gestating” offspring, momentarily functioning down at the low end of the spectrum of human consciousness who, by reason of the insidiousness of low consciousness itself, are completely unaware of the dark nature of their actions. That is the hallmark of evil – its insidiousness! It causes those who are under its influence to be totally unconscious of the fact that their actions are “evil” when viewed from a higher, more awakened frame of reference.

So just realize once and for all that all evil is, or ever was, is low consciousness and the actions resulting from it; just a deeper level of somnambulism in the “big dream” (from which we will all awaken).

Can you understand the reason why humans are not yet ready to co-mingle with other beings throughout the universe? At this very moment, many humans on earth function at such a low level of consciousness that they can’t even get past the ever-so-slight variances of skin color of their own earthly siblings. So just imagine how they would react to major differences in bodily structures or whatever.

Figuring out how to awaken the "heavier sleepers" is the real solution to "evil." Only then will the overall level of "evilness" on earth be reduced.

Any suggestions?

Your sibling,

seeds

[Stevie B]

For me the definition of good vs evil are just your good emotions vs. your negative emotions.

Now I've looked extensively into this subject and came to conclude all negative emotions come from either judging or controlling thoughts towards people or yourself. For instance, the more you hate someone, the more those thoughts begin to make you feel bad.

As for good, these are just the opposite of your negative emotions. So instead of controlling thoughts, you give people thoughts to achieve freedom and trust. And instead of judging thoughts, you give people thoughts of gratitude and compliments. Both freedom, trust and appreciation towards another will enable you to love each other and feel that 'good' feeling.

Stevie B

[themaster]

Originally Posted by seeds

themaster,

Bigfoot Sightings:

Whether Bigfoot exists or not (and I highly doubt that it does) it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with our eternal destiny.

You can muse over Bigfoot and other items of folklore if you wish (most of us do) but eventually it is time to put down our “Encyclopedias of the Supernatural” and rise up into higher levels of consciousness.

Your sibling,

seeds

Ohh.. I'm sorry!! I didn't realize "higher levels of consciousness" meant ignoring ideas that are part of me..

seeds you failed.. to answer my question.. see the re-phrased version of it below.. it is the same question this time without subject matter.. I have interpreted your answers from your "droll" posts.. you may feel free to change it however if this is not how you would respond..
So in summation.. I recap.. the idea and the question I asked..

Seeds how do you not invalidate all human experiences and truths????

Seeds Answer: I do invalidate all experience and people's truths and choose some to be valid it is "this or that"

themaster Answer: I do not invalidate any experience or people's truths.. it is "this and that"

Now here's a follow up question which of these answers is more inclusive/forward thinking and which of these is more limiting?

[seeds]

Originally Posted by themaster

seeds you failed.. to answer my question.. see the re-phrased version of it below.. it is the same question this time without subject matter.. I have interpreted your answers from your "droll" posts.. you may feel free to change it however if this is not how you would respond..
So in summation.. I recap.. the idea and the question I asked..

Seeds how do you not invalidate all human experiences and truths????

Seeds Answer: I do invalidate all experience and people's truths and choose some to be valid it is "this or that"

themaster Answer: I do not invalidate any experience or people's truths.. it is "this and that"

Now here's a follow up question which of these answers is more inclusive/forward thinking and which of these is more limiting?

themaster,

In your philosophy of total "inclusiveness" it is implied that everyone's truth is valid, right? There is no "this or that," there is only "this and that" (your words).

If that is true, how then do you reconcile the fact that my truth suggests that your truth may be false?

Is my truth valid or not?

On the other hand, if your truth is valid, then mine must be false, disqualifying me from your "all-inclusive/all is valid" club.

How do you explain this enigma?

See if you can truly practice what you preach by not invalidating my truth which claims that your truth is false!

Your sibling,

seeds

[themaster]

If that is true, how then do you reconcile the fact that my truth suggests that your truth may be false?
Belief and a person’s truth create reality.. so both sides of the coin are true.. may sound simple, may sound squalid, may sound paradoxical but it is my understanding both our true..

Is my truth valid or not?

Yes

On the other hand, if your truth is valid, then mine must be false, disqualifying me from your "all-inclusive/all is valid" club.

Both are true..

How do you explain this enigma?

I just did.. belief and a person's truth create said reality..

Originally Posted by seeds

See if you can truly practice what you preach by not invalidating my truth which claims that your truth is false!

I tried.. I didn't say it came out the greatest.. maybe someone wiser then myself can type out a crystal clear valid statement.. that or you can keep goading me.. it will come eventually you know

[jakehussie]

Being able to differentiate good from bad, may probably depend on the person's belief, as long as you are not hurting others, then maybe you may still be doing the right thing.