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newsbone · 05-10-2009, 05:45 PM

Atheism is a form rebellion (religion) born of misrepresentation of the word of god/s and the failed scientific search for God. In other Words it is another purposeless pursuit for freedom (read nothing). If Atheism is the principle of no God a goal in itself then it is purposeless and useless. How is this belief system helpful to the believer, how does it improve a person when he/she does not believe in having been created but just a result of an accidental occurrence? There are people who believe in different kinds of gods other than the one I do believe in, but those who in one way or the other say imply that they are nothing but overgrown proteins kind of amuse me.
Is this just away of trying to prove that education has all the answers for all the ills that bedevil the world, even when ¾ of the problems a result of knowledge itself. Is this not a joke taken a little bit too far?

Xanafax · 05-10-2009, 05:48 PM

Hardly.

Atheism is the logical result of actually thinking about Religion. There is no proof for God, and the onus of proof is on the ones making the claim for it.

Furthermore you seem to make the point that "purpose" is only possible if there is a God present.

Nonsense. I find a great sense of happiness from doing something for myself - no God needed.

newsbone · 05-10-2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanafax

Hardly.

Atheism is the logical result of actually thinking about Religion. There is no proof for God, and the onus of proof is on the ones making the claim for it.

If god can be found or limited to mans definition would he be god/s?

cylon · 05-10-2009, 05:54 PM

To me the proof is in the pudding.

How many people are embracing traditional Christianity these days?

How many people are embracing ideas like Buddhism and other ancient (new age by detractors) similar beliefs?

One is about going to hell and that all man is evil and dirty.

The other, is that we are all one and that love and bliss are the answer. For an atheist, you could just call that naturalism or humanism, same end result.

One is speaking to people's true nature, and one isn't. That's how I see it.

Xanafax · 05-10-2009, 05:56 PM

If god was defined, of course he would still be God, we'd just understand him more.

I don't think any sort of Faith is good for you. If you reach those beliefs through logic and observation, then yeah go for it - but then it's not beliefs. It's just reality.

cylon · 05-10-2009, 05:57 PM

Well at least have faith in yourself.

Xanafax · 05-10-2009, 06:00 PM

I don't need faith. I know myself. And knowing is better than faith.

It's like driving a car...if someone gets into a car with you, sits behind the wheel and says "don't worry, I have faith I will be able to drive this" you would just get out, however if someone says "Don't worry, I know how to drive" you feel a hell of a lot safer.

cylon · 05-10-2009, 06:02 PM

Note to self-- don't use the word "faith" in any context whatsoever in regards to Xanafax.

Xanafax · 05-10-2009, 06:03 PM

That's probably the safest thing for you, yes.

Angela · 05-10-2009, 06:04 PM

Quote:

.... Is this just away of trying to prove that education has all the answers for all the ills that bedevil the world, even when ¾ of the problems a result of knowledge itself. Is this not a joke....

I don't know if you meant that as a joke, but it sure was funny!

Here's another good atheist joke:

Quote:

An atheist walks into a bar, and the bartender says, “Hey, check out my new hair color.”

The atheist replies, “But you don’t have any hair. How can you say bald is a hair color.”

“The same way people say your religion is atheism.”
-- Cade, from Friendly Atheist

newsbone · 05-10-2009, 06:05 PM

Knowing yourself is a consequence of the proven faith that you have in your abilities, this did not come out of nowhere but a consistency.

cylon · 05-10-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanafax

That's probably the safest thing for you, yes.

I believe you know how to drive the car. I'm just curious how you know you will indeed reach the destination.

Xanafax · 05-10-2009, 06:06 PM

No, its not faith. Its logic. You don't have faith an apple will fall from a tree, you know it does through experience. Through a logical understand of the laws of Physics.

Another joke:

Why did the atheist cross the road?

He thought there might be a street on the other side, but he wouldn’t believe it until he tested his hypothesis.

Angela · 05-10-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newsbone

Knowing yourself is a consequence of the proven faith that you have in your abilities, this did not come out of nowhere but a consistency.

Well, then, you had better watch out, right? Because knowledge is the cause of 3/4 of the problems in the world!

Xanafax · 05-10-2009, 06:08 PM

Cylon:

Thats a good point haha!

I guess you just have faith (

) Until you get there, but the beauty of it is - you don't NEED faith to get there.

Angela · 05-10-2009, 06:09 PM

Another good one that really does go too far:

Quote:

An atheist walked into a bar…

…because a beer is always good after having eaten babies.
C.E. Moore, friendly atheist

newsbone · 05-10-2009, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angela

I don't know if you meant that as a joke, but it sure was funny!

Greed, Global warming, bombs(nuclear),sex out of marriage to name but a few ills born out of knowledge.

cylon · 05-10-2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanafax

Cylon:

Thats a good point haha!

I guess you just have faith (

) Until you get there, but the beauty of it is - you don't NEED faith to get there.

You actually do need faith to get there. If you didn't believe 100% you would get to your destination you would never get behind that wheel.

This is a different type of faith than religion. My point was, faith in itself is good if it's faith in yourself. You have to believe despite any evidence that you will be able to get to where you want to go and do the things you want to do in life.

If you have that specific type of "faith", you don't need a God in some old book to have Faith in.

newsbone · 05-10-2009, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angela

Well, then, you had better watch out, right? Because knowledge is the cause of 3/4 of the problems in the world!

Yes the good bit of it!

Angela · 05-10-2009, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newsbone

Greed, Global warming, bombs(nuclear),sex out of marriage to name but a few ills born out of knowledge.

Maybe. Maybe also out of LACK of knowledge -- ignorance of the potential consequences, or disregard of them out of the lack of knowledge of what works well in your life and what doesn't.

And I gotta tell you -- sex outside of marriage works really well in my life. It is one of my favorite things EVAR!

Xanafax · 05-10-2009, 06:14 PM

Boo for greed! We wouldn't have anything we take for granted these days without it, but boo anyway!

Global Warming - boo! Something we have yet to prove by science, survive through science, learn from - through science - but boo anyway!

Bombs - boo...well yeah just generally boo...however research into nuclear bombs has lead to the development of Fusion power which will save all our fossil-fuel burning arses' in the next century.

Sex out of marriage - How dare consenting adults exercise their free will and autonomy in the search for enjoyment Boo!

Maybe you'd like to insult Coca Cola for providing us with tasty beverages. Plus there is a rumour going around that Gillette have taken out a pact with the devil to make an even better Razor...booo!

cylon · 05-10-2009, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newsbone

Greed, Global warming, bombs(nuclear),sex out of marriage to name but a few ills born out of knowledge.

Always look at the bright side eh?

newsbone · 05-10-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cylon

If you have that specific type of "faith", you don't need a God in some old book to have Faith in.

What happened to the adage 'old is gold'? Are you against some old book just because it was written long ago, and not what it stands for? Amusing is it not?

Xanafax · 05-10-2009, 06:19 PM

I am against the Bible / Koran / Torah generally because they where written by ignorant (but well meaning) desert dwelling idiots frankly.

it's a pre-scientific book. That is - it did not have science to inform it's conclusions. Thus it is invalid.

Angela · 05-10-2009, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newsbone

What happened to the adage 'old is gold'? Are you against some old book just because it was written long ago, and not what it stands for? Amusing is it not?

Who said anything about being against an old book? It was more like, "if you have faith in your own personal power, you don't NEED an musty old book. Not needing something and being against it are two different things.

edit: well, I guess Xanafax IS "against" it.

cylon · 05-10-2009, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newsbone

What happened to the adage 'old is gold'? Are you against some old book just because it was written long ago, and not what it stands for? Amusing is it not?

I never used that old is gold expression, that doesn't mean anything to me. I have something against it because I have spent years studying it and researching it. The fact that people have been living the same horrific nightmare of Christianity for 2,000 years doesn't mean it's "true".

To me, what's true is what speaks to you. Human sacrifice and fratricide doesn't speak to most people. To some it does, and for them, they have found their proper belief system.

This is all based on the idea that the bible is a historical book. If it's taken as metaphor, sections of it have more value. But for all intents and purposes, Christianity is not viewed as metaphor but as real fact, and that's what I'm speaking against.

newsbone · 05-10-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanafax

Global Warming - boo! Something we have yet to prove by science, survive through science, learn from - through science - but boo anyway! !

You are still ignorant of this fact or just because it will interfere with your lifestyle? Environmental scientists have proved this truth but you have refused to accept it because it works against your pursuits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanafax

Bombs - boo...well yeah just generally boo...however research into nuclear bombs has lead to the development of Fusion power which will save all our fossil-fuel burning arses' in the next century.

Will or have? Speculation + ambition = failure. Talk of Evil begetting good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanafax

Sex out of marriage - How dare consenting adults exercise their free will and autonomy in the search for enjoyment Boo! !

Find a cure for AIDS first!

Angela · 05-10-2009, 06:26 PM

Oh, ooops, I guess cylon is *against* it, too.

Not me; I'm for it. It's handy for stretching out your calf muscles in hotel rooms.

Xanafax · 05-10-2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newsbone

You are still ignorant of this fact or just because it will interfere with your lifestyle? Environmental scientists have proved this truth but you have refused to accept it because it works against your pursuits.

Will or have? Speculation + ambition = failure. Talk of Evil begetting good.

Find a cure for AIDS first!

Oh so now you LIKE scientists? Hmmm

I don't understand your second point.

And how about just using a condom?

newsbone · 05-10-2009, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanafax

I am against the Bible / Koran / Torah generally because they where written by ignorant (but well meaning) desert dwelling idiots frankly.

it's a pre-scientific book. That is - it did not have science to inform it's conclusions. Thus it is invalid.

Not pre scientific but pre evolution, science was there even before the Bible/Quran? Torah.

05-10-2009, 05:45 PM	#1 (permalink)
newsbone Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Kampala-Uganda, Malaba-Kenya, Kigali-Rwanda. Posts: 985	Atheism is a joke taken too far! Atheism is a form rebellion (religion) born of misrepresentation of the word of god/s and the failed scientific search for God. In other Words it is another purposeless pursuit for freedom (read nothing). If Atheism is the principle of no God a goal in itself then it is purposeless and useless. How is this belief system helpful to the believer, how does it improve a person when he/she does not believe in having been created but just a result of an accidental occurrence? There are people who believe in different kinds of gods other than the one I do believe in, but those who in one way or the other say imply that they are nothing but overgrown proteins kind of amuse me. Is this just away of trying to prove that education has all the answers for all the ills that bedevil the world, even when ¾ of the problems a result of knowledge itself. Is this not a joke taken a little bit too far?

05-10-2009, 06:08 PM	#15 (permalink)
Xanafax Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Halifax, England. Posts: 658	Cylon: Thats a good point haha! I guess you just have faith () Until you get there, but the beauty of it is - you don't NEED faith to get there.

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05-10-2009, 05:48 PM	#2 (permalink)
Xanafax Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Halifax, England. Posts: 658	Hardly. Atheism is the logical result of actually thinking about Religion. There is no proof for God, and the onus of proof is on the ones making the claim for it. Furthermore you seem to make the point that "purpose" is only possible if there is a God present. Nonsense. I find a great sense of happiness from doing something for myself - no God needed.

05-10-2009, 05:54 PM	#4 (permalink)
cylon Family Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6,852	To me the proof is in the pudding. How many people are embracing traditional Christianity these days? How many people are embracing ideas like Buddhism and other ancient (new age by detractors) similar beliefs? One is about going to hell and that all man is evil and dirty. The other, is that we are all one and that love and bliss are the answer. For an atheist, you could just call that naturalism or humanism, same end result. One is speaking to people's true nature, and one isn't. That's how I see it.

05-10-2009, 05:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
Xanafax Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Halifax, England. Posts: 658	If god was defined, of course he would still be God, we'd just understand him more. I don't think any sort of Faith is good for you. If you reach those beliefs through logic and observation, then yeah go for it - but then it's not beliefs. It's just reality.

05-10-2009, 05:57 PM	#6 (permalink)
cylon Family Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6,852	Well at least have faith in yourself.

05-10-2009, 06:00 PM	#7 (permalink)
Xanafax Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Halifax, England. Posts: 658	I don't need faith. I know myself. And knowing is better than faith. It's like driving a car...if someone gets into a car with you, sits behind the wheel and says "don't worry, I have faith I will be able to drive this" you would just get out, however if someone says "Don't worry, I know how to drive" you feel a hell of a lot safer.

05-10-2009, 06:02 PM	#8 (permalink)
cylon Family Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6,852	Note to self-- don't use the word "faith" in any context whatsoever in regards to Xanafax.

05-10-2009, 06:03 PM	#9 (permalink)
Xanafax Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Halifax, England. Posts: 658	That's probably the safest thing for you, yes.

05-10-2009, 06:05 PM	#11 (permalink)
newsbone Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Kampala-Uganda, Malaba-Kenya, Kigali-Rwanda. Posts: 985	Knowing yourself is a consequence of the proven faith that you have in your abilities, this did not come out of nowhere but a consistency.

05-10-2009, 06:06 PM	#13 (permalink)
Xanafax Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Halifax, England. Posts: 658	No, its not faith. Its logic. You don't have faith an apple will fall from a tree, you know it does through experience. Through a logical understand of the laws of Physics. Another joke: Why did the atheist cross the road? He thought there might be a street on the other side, but he wouldn’t believe it until he tested his hypothesis.

05-10-2009, 06:14 PM	#21 (permalink)
Xanafax Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Halifax, England. Posts: 658	Boo for greed! We wouldn't have anything we take for granted these days without it, but boo anyway! Global Warming - boo! Something we have yet to prove by science, survive through science, learn from - through science - but boo anyway! Bombs - boo...well yeah just generally boo...however research into nuclear bombs has lead to the development of Fusion power which will save all our fossil-fuel burning arses' in the next century. Sex out of marriage - How dare consenting adults exercise their free will and autonomy in the search for enjoyment Boo! Maybe you'd like to insult Coca Cola for providing us with tasty beverages. Plus there is a rumour going around that Gillette have taken out a pact with the devil to make an even better Razor...booo!

05-10-2009, 06:19 PM	#24 (permalink)
Xanafax Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Halifax, England. Posts: 658	I am against the Bible / Koran / Torah generally because they where written by ignorant (but well meaning) desert dwelling idiots frankly. it's a pre-scientific book. That is - it did not have science to inform it's conclusions. Thus it is invalid.

05-10-2009, 06:26 PM	#28 (permalink)
Angela Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 22,520	Oh, ooops, I guess cylon is against it, too. Not me; I'm for it. It's handy for stretching out your calf muscles in hotel rooms.

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