Personal Development for Smart People^TM Forums

JoeRad · 04-09-2009, 01:18 PM

Hello to all,

I am posting here a a form of self-therapy...I don’t feel I have any other choice, but to get this "off my chest" and put it somewhere, so please don't waste too much time reading it.

In 3 weeks time I will be living with a brother and his partner that are loving and helpful of me, and I will be freed from a horrible position of false responsibility toward people who had been taking advantage of me for years. Despite all of the things in my physical world that hurt me, I am most obsessed with the non-physical issues.

I have been reading this site for years, going back to 2006. Its been awesome, and I learned alot, and found wisdom in much of what has been posted by Steve & Erin. I don’t consider there words to be absolute, but I find alot of what is said things I have had percolating in my mind for awhile....they confirm most of my suspicions about the world.

I grew up a conservative catholic...and since my late teens I have been grappling with the issues associated with it...I am sure all of you know the typical problems I face, and the typical reasons I face them. I will spare you the "wtf" dialogue that is common in those cases.

I "burned the ships" and went in search of Truth. I never found absolute truth, but for a while I found solace in subjective truth, that empowered me and presented me to a massive increase in the quality of my life, both physically and mentally. Then, in an attempt at acting on my compassion, I took in my Mother, Little Brother and Father and my life has been a proverbial hell for a year. That ends shortly, but it ends horribly. My Mother is having a nervous breakdown, my Little Brother has little hope for advancement in this life and my Father is going to live on the streets. He is hated by his family, my family and I don't have the money to support him anymore, because I lost it all trying to support him on an inadequate salary form my job.

On my own, my salary takes care of most of my expenses, even to the point of abundance from where I was a year ago...but I lost all my savings trying to save him and I failed. My Mother and Little Brother are now moving in with my Grandmother and they may turn out alright, but I am condemning my Father to a life on the streets.

I'm moving in with the person who helped to save me form problems years ago, my Older Brother and his partner. I will be in LARGE house, a whole room to myself, expenses that are less than half what I pay now, and be with people who love and want to help me for no other reasons then that they say I have great "potential, and a will to live". But, they refuse to help my Father.

My Father was the one who tried to teach us the Truth of Catholicism...and all of his sons and hi wife abandoned it, to one form or another. He sees himself as betrayed and is despondent and depressed over it. He sees these issues with our family as the result of the Devil taking pains to collapse our family, because we once were Prayerful and in line with Truth….now we are astray and easy picking for condemnation.

I can't believe what he believes, except for the nagging thought in my mind that he may be right.

The model of Reality I have right now is incomplete, yet it explains everything in my reality at this time, and allows for expansions. Its very empowering and is almost everything I had hoped for in a Universe. I could be happy following this model and living within it....changing as needed.

How do I know...I know that the only real truth I have is what I experience, but what if I am the victim of a hoax by "Evil"...what if the True God is truly testing me...how do I know...How do I tell, I can't go on like this...I need to find the truth or I will go insane...I try so hard, I pray, I think, I ask....IU analyze...I plan.....I try to damned hard...I care...whatever the Truth is...I will do what is needed, I need the Truth though...I can barely go on...I can barely type....all of you, everyone else could be the Devil trying to lead me astray…or I could be paranoid...caused by my Father….I am lost…I wish I had help but there is no one…

I am ending this and posting it....if there is a Catholic God, a Muslim God, and Protestant God, a Buddha....or if this is my mind or higher self challenging me...some good must...NEEDS to come from this....for I have no direction, and am gong insane....

I am alone!!!!

JoeRad · 04-09-2009, 03:14 PM

Everything I learn I learn through my senses...if Evil does manipulate what I perceive, than I could very well be fooled into the falsehood of spiritual and moral relativism.

I have no way to know what is right or wrong under those circumstances...even the idea of me trusting myself, was an idea that came to me through my senses.

I can't function like this...I wonder why I am still bothering at all....

I am either working my way through a very difficult transition to enlightenment, or I am a fool who is dooming himself to eternal damnation...and right now, they both feel bad!

Anagogy · 04-09-2009, 05:50 PM

A truly loving god would not put you through such hell, my friend. And in my experience God is a very loving being, and we are extensions of that vast vast love.

The hell you are experiencing right now is because you are trying to put faith in everything but the thing that is the most important to put faith in -- yourself. Have faith that you are doing whats right. The intent was always more consequential than the act. The act is often an outwards manifestation that could have multiple interpretations. The intent is always what is the most true about your being.

A good measure of whether you are on the right path is the degree of happiness you feel. Your emotions are inextricably connected to your spirit. Trust them. Pain, in any form, is usually a message to inform of us of the incongruency between what we want, and where we are going. And that goes for virtually every level of our being (physical, mental, emotional, spiritual etc.).

Then again, there is the chaos that we feel when we move from one vantage point to another more expanded point. Moving out of our comfort zone can be uncomfortable but is often necessary for true spiritual growth.

You're doing a great job. Try not to worry about "eternal damnation".

Would a truly loving God allow you to commit a few temporal crimes that are nothing but a blip in time, and then punish you eternally for it? No loving being I know would EVER do such a thing.

Have a great day.

Tobes · 04-09-2009, 07:25 PM

Quote:

How do I know...I know that the only real truth I have is what I experience, but what if I am the victim of a hoax by "Evil"...what if the True God is truly testing me...how do I know...How do I tell, I can't go on like this...I need to find the truth or I will go insane...I try so hard, I pray, I think, I ask....IU analyze...I plan.....I try to damned hard...I care...whatever the Truth is...I will do what is needed, I need the Truth though...I can barely go on...I can barely type....all of you, everyone else could be the Devil trying to lead me astray…or I could be paranoid...caused by my Father….I am lost…I wish I had help but there is no one…

Relax my friend. There is no God or Devil testing you. These are common feelings as we try to learn to deal with uncertainty (been there and done that!). I hear you about searching for 'certainty' of truth as I myself have a bit of an existential obsessive compulsion (determined to find "THE MEANING" etc.).

If you have been exposed to a rigid belief system, it is hard to deal with uncertainty (which is why you are feeling tested). However, once you adjust, the freedom to create your own meaning and purpose can be liberating. There is no one judging you but the societal and religious voices in you head!

JanT · 04-09-2009, 10:22 PM

Hi JoeRad-
I want to begin by saying...

You are not responsible for your father.

Okay, now I want to say that again:

You are not responsible for your father.

He is an adult. He makes his own decisions. He acts on those decisions. You are not responsible for his actions, thoughts or deeds. Nor are you responsible for his lack of actions, thoughts or deeds.

You are responsible for your actions, thoughts and deeds.

It is admirable that you tried to save him - but it was obviously his choice otherwise (and I think your brother and his partner realize this as well). Please quit beating yourself up about it. And how wonderful for you that your brother and partner took you in!

It took me several years (and a lot of guilt) trying to 'save' people (from themselves). All that it did was drag me down to a very dark place.

Don't get me wrong - I am not angry or bitter about the experiences - and I did have a choice to be either angry or learn from it. I am thankful for those experiences - because I learned some wonderful things from it...like setting boundaries and respecting myself.

The Powers-That-Be are not challenging, testing or trying to drive you insane.

Another thing I learned is that I set up my challenges in my life so that I could learn from them - and those people involved (which appears to be very negative on the surface) agreed to help me experience those things so that I could learn and grow from them.

When we are in physical bodies, we are unable to see 'the big picture' - our views are so very limited.

So, I offer this to you:

Realize your father has to make mistakes, learn and grow - just like everyone else - and if you keep trying to 'save' him, he will just keep going through it until he learns and 'saves' himself. Understand?

Trust yourself (without guilt!) and follow what your inner self is telling you about your spirituality; make a list of the 'good' stuff in your life and practice gratitude for it all.

You've been in a dark place for quite a while - think it's time to let some light in?

04-09-2009, 01:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
JoeRad Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 95	Sending my thoughts into the Void Hello to all, I am posting here a a form of self-therapy...I don’t feel I have any other choice, but to get this "off my chest" and put it somewhere, so please don't waste too much time reading it. In 3 weeks time I will be living with a brother and his partner that are loving and helpful of me, and I will be freed from a horrible position of false responsibility toward people who had been taking advantage of me for years. Despite all of the things in my physical world that hurt me, I am most obsessed with the non-physical issues. I have been reading this site for years, going back to 2006. Its been awesome, and I learned alot, and found wisdom in much of what has been posted by Steve & Erin. I don’t consider there words to be absolute, but I find alot of what is said things I have had percolating in my mind for awhile....they confirm most of my suspicions about the world. I grew up a conservative catholic...and since my late teens I have been grappling with the issues associated with it...I am sure all of you know the typical problems I face, and the typical reasons I face them. I will spare you the "wtf" dialogue that is common in those cases. I "burned the ships" and went in search of Truth. I never found absolute truth, but for a while I found solace in subjective truth, that empowered me and presented me to a massive increase in the quality of my life, both physically and mentally. Then, in an attempt at acting on my compassion, I took in my Mother, Little Brother and Father and my life has been a proverbial hell for a year. That ends shortly, but it ends horribly. My Mother is having a nervous breakdown, my Little Brother has little hope for advancement in this life and my Father is going to live on the streets. He is hated by his family, my family and I don't have the money to support him anymore, because I lost it all trying to support him on an inadequate salary form my job. On my own, my salary takes care of most of my expenses, even to the point of abundance from where I was a year ago...but I lost all my savings trying to save him and I failed. My Mother and Little Brother are now moving in with my Grandmother and they may turn out alright, but I am condemning my Father to a life on the streets. I'm moving in with the person who helped to save me form problems years ago, my Older Brother and his partner. I will be in LARGE house, a whole room to myself, expenses that are less than half what I pay now, and be with people who love and want to help me for no other reasons then that they say I have great "potential, and a will to live". But, they refuse to help my Father. My Father was the one who tried to teach us the Truth of Catholicism...and all of his sons and hi wife abandoned it, to one form or another. He sees himself as betrayed and is despondent and depressed over it. He sees these issues with our family as the result of the Devil taking pains to collapse our family, because we once were Prayerful and in line with Truth….now we are astray and easy picking for condemnation. I can't believe what he believes, except for the nagging thought in my mind that he may be right. The model of Reality I have right now is incomplete, yet it explains everything in my reality at this time, and allows for expansions. Its very empowering and is almost everything I had hoped for in a Universe. I could be happy following this model and living within it....changing as needed. How do I know...I know that the only real truth I have is what I experience, but what if I am the victim of a hoax by "Evil"...what if the True God is truly testing me...how do I know...How do I tell, I can't go on like this...I need to find the truth or I will go insane...I try so hard, I pray, I think, I ask....IU analyze...I plan.....I try to damned hard...I care...whatever the Truth is...I will do what is needed, I need the Truth though...I can barely go on...I can barely type....all of you, everyone else could be the Devil trying to lead me astray…or I could be paranoid...caused by my Father….I am lost…I wish I had help but there is no one… I am ending this and posting it....if there is a Catholic God, a Muslim God, and Protestant God, a Buddha....or if this is my mind or higher self challenging me...some good must...NEEDS to come from this....for I have no direction, and am gong insane.... I am alone!!!! Last edited by JoeRad; 04-09-2009 at 01:24 PM. Reason: I don;t know why I am writing this....screw it

04-09-2009, 03:14 PM	#2 (permalink)
JoeRad Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 95	Everything I Learn Could Be Wrong Everything I learn I learn through my senses...if Evil does manipulate what I perceive, than I could very well be fooled into the falsehood of spiritual and moral relativism. I have no way to know what is right or wrong under those circumstances...even the idea of me trusting myself, was an idea that came to me through my senses. I can't function like this...I wonder why I am still bothering at all.... I am either working my way through a very difficult transition to enlightenment, or I am a fool who is dooming himself to eternal damnation...and right now, they both feel bad!

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04-09-2009, 05:50 PM	#3 (permalink)
Anagogy Family Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Where soul meets body. Posts: 1,859	A truly loving god would not put you through such hell, my friend. And in my experience God is a very loving being, and we are extensions of that vast vast love. The hell you are experiencing right now is because you are trying to put faith in everything but the thing that is the most important to put faith in -- yourself. Have faith that you are doing whats right. The intent was always more consequential than the act. The act is often an outwards manifestation that could have multiple interpretations. The intent is always what is the most true about your being. A good measure of whether you are on the right path is the degree of happiness you feel. Your emotions are inextricably connected to your spirit. Trust them. Pain, in any form, is usually a message to inform of us of the incongruency between what we want, and where we are going. And that goes for virtually every level of our being (physical, mental, emotional, spiritual etc.). Then again, there is the chaos that we feel when we move from one vantage point to another more expanded point. Moving out of our comfort zone can be uncomfortable but is often necessary for true spiritual growth. You're doing a great job. Try not to worry about "eternal damnation". Would a truly loving God allow you to commit a few temporal crimes that are nothing but a blip in time, and then punish you eternally for it? No loving being I know would EVER do such a thing. Have a great day.

04-09-2009, 10:22 PM	#5 (permalink)
JanT Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 167	Hi JoeRad- I want to begin by saying... You are not responsible for your father. Okay, now I want to say that again: You are not responsible for your father. He is an adult. He makes his own decisions. He acts on those decisions. You are not responsible for his actions, thoughts or deeds. Nor are you responsible for his lack of actions, thoughts or deeds. You are responsible for your actions, thoughts and deeds. It is admirable that you tried to save him - but it was obviously his choice otherwise (and I think your brother and his partner realize this as well). Please quit beating yourself up about it. And how wonderful for you that your brother and partner took you in! It took me several years (and a lot of guilt) trying to 'save' people (from themselves). All that it did was drag me down to a very dark place. Don't get me wrong - I am not angry or bitter about the experiences - and I did have a choice to be either angry or learn from it. I am thankful for those experiences - because I learned some wonderful things from it...like setting boundaries and respecting myself. The Powers-That-Be are not challenging, testing or trying to drive you insane. Another thing I learned is that I set up my challenges in my life so that I could learn from them - and those people involved (which appears to be very negative on the surface) agreed to help me experience those things so that I could learn and grow from them. When we are in physical bodies, we are unable to see 'the big picture' - our views are so very limited. So, I offer this to you: Realize your father has to make mistakes, learn and grow - just like everyone else - and if you keep trying to 'save' him, he will just keep going through it until he learns and 'saves' himself. Understand? Trust yourself (without guilt!) and follow what your inner self is telling you about your spirituality; make a list of the 'good' stuff in your life and practice gratitude for it all. You've been in a dark place for quite a while - think it's time to let some light in?

Personal Development for Smart PeopleTM Forums

Personal Development for Smart People^TM Forums