You are not the Creator

[Judge]

The reason you don’t seem to be able to create effectively all the time, is because you are incapable of creating anything at all. You can even prove this to yourself. Think about something you want to manifest right now........did it appear?......of course not and it's because you really have no true creative control.

If you were truly the creator, then you could manifest all things all day long and of course you know you don't do that, because all the things in your awareness right now require no thought on your behalf and yet, there they are.

So who is creating all the stuff in your life?

You are, but it’s not the ‘you’ that you take yourself to be.

People use formulas and teachings about manifestation, but it never works 100% of the time because it doesn’t work that way at all. It’s a cunning illusion that you seem to have a thought and it may or may not manifest, but it’s a perceptive trick.

You are creating everything, but that also includes what you think of as your mind, your body and its desires. So when you think you want to manifest something for your human self, it may conflict with what you are creating overall and it doesn’t appear. You have a primary purpose that is the awakening of consciousness. Your secondary purpose or your illusionary purpose is rooted in what your human mind/body seems to want.

You create the world and everything in it all day long, but only in your present moment awareness. There’s no need to create every single possible thing, because as you never intend to be aware of all things, then there’s no need to have the entire world exist all at once. Nothing outside your awareness exists.

Your human body/mind/ego has no creative power at all. As it is a creation itself then it doesn’t create and in fact creation doesn’t actually work in the way the manifestation formulas suggest, if those teachings worked they would consistently work and of course we all know they are haphazard a best and dismal failures at worse.

It’s often said that when you desire something, then desire it for the entire world. This is true, but not in the sense that others should benefit as you require, but more as an approach that you as the world should be in the best possible state and condition…......the road back to perfection.

Egoic desires are small and fleeting, universal desires are all encompassing and vital to maintain balance throughout your consciousness. You as consciousness are on a journey back to perfection. You once were perfect, but for what ever reason choose imperfection and now your journey is to be perfect again.

The imperfection is of course an illusion, but you chose it and now you require to bring your attention to that current state to end the illusion.

So can you as a human being, ever get what you want?

Its a trick question, because you are not a human being and you don’t want anything other than to wake up and realise you are the perfect being. So you can intend and desire and hope and pray and think, emote, focus and strive all you like. Some times it will seem like you are manifesting what you intend via your human being, but at best it’s coincidental with your true purpose which as consciousness is to wake up.

Suffering and pain are essential to the realisation that you’ve got the true nature of reality mixed up. You are a spiritual being having a physical imperfect illusionary experience, not a physical being seeking enlightenment. We suffer to know we don’t need to suffer anymore. Suffering tells you that you are incorrectly aligned with the wrong self. The small egoic being is a limitation within the container, that consciousness (you) are.

Pain and pleasure, desires and fear are all important, not so you can have some and shun the others, but to realise you don’t need and/or require any of them. This is a journey of awakening, not manifesting stuff to give pleasure, because all pleasure is fleeting.

Wanting stuff for your self is very limiting, because you’re focusing on the small self that is a product of your consciousness. When you create the world (in awareness) you create your little person and then all the other people, then they start to conflict which leads to suffering and then you wonder why all this is happening.

So what is the point of your human life?

To wake up to the fact that you are the only conscious being here and the illusion of imperfection must be accepted internally and then eventually dissolved.

Can you still intend and manifest stuff for your little self while within the illusion?

Yes, but you will get better results when you manifest from consciousness and not from your egoic self full of self concern and it may often seem like you didn’t get what you wanted, because your true self does not require it.

Jesus said (paraphrase) “I, of myself can do nothing, it is the father who does the works”

You can agree with this or disagree, but remember you created it

Judge

[TiffyLove]

Originally Posted by Judge

when you manifest from consciousness

Could you elaborate on that further? I honestly can't tell you what I want to know more of or if any specific questions, I would just like to hear more about manifesting from consciousness.

[Parthon]

I am the creator, and as the creater I created everything. Then I created my avatar, which is the being I call Eric. Then I put my will and awareness into Eric. Lastly I created limitations, so I wouldn't know I am the creator, and I wouldn't have the power of a creator. Limitations enough to achieve what I wanted, but clues enough so I wouldn't be completely forgotten.

Eric is the creator's creation, limitations and all. My true self is the creator, but for now I am Eric.

Hi!

[Arboretor]

Judge, I knew that your farewell would not last God can not leave his creation behind

But I am glad you found some more words

[seeds]

Originally Posted by Judge

The reason you don’t seem to be able to create effectively all the time, is because you are incapable of creating anything at all. You can even prove this to yourself. Think about something you want to manifest right now........did it appear?......of course not and it's because you really have no true creative control.

If you were truly the creator, then you could manifest all things all day long and of course you know you don't do that, because all the things in your awareness right now require no thought on your behalf and yet, there they are.

Judge

Allow me to add a little more to Judge's astute assessment of our role in the creation of the universe. (Oh great! Now there are two big windbags on the same thread.)

Realize that we humans do not “directly” create the reality of the universe with our consciousness. That is a popular notion that is sometimes inferred from the results of quantum experiments (the collapse of the quantum wave function via observation, for example).

The highly touted idea that “consciousness creates reality,” although true, is a misunderstood (misappropriated) concept when it comes to our relationship to the universe. Although we can “change” the reality of the universe (indirectly) with our hands and tools (bulldozers, dynamite, chemistry, quantum physics, etc.) the point is that at no time do we ever “directly” create the reality of the universe with our minds.

To understand that better, realize that in the same way that we humans cannot reach into each other's minds and directly wield and manipulate each other's personal mental imaging energy, neither can we wield God's mental imaging energy. Only God’s will is directly connected to the quantum informational matrix of this universe. The universe belongs to God and God alone.

The only instance and setting in which we “directly” create reality is "within" our own personal minds. And of course I am referring to “subjective reality” in that case (you are creating the image of an apple in your mind right now at the mere mention of the word "apple." Take a bite. Can you taste it?).

In the case of the universe however, our consciousness merely “shines into” the already established patterns of information in the quantum in such a way that “decodes and explicates” the multi-sensory features of reality that are pre-programmed to "appear" when consciousness merges with it.

It is the same phenomenon that occurs within our own minds as our consciousness merges with the information within and then explicates the holographic-like image of our first bicycle for example, or that of a loved one’s face, or defines the rich details of our vivid dreams. The same “process” that produces the three dimensional, multi-sensory resolution and separation of the "objects" within our own minds (especially obvious when we dream) is basically the same “process” that occurs outwardly as we experience the universe. However, what appears to us out here is the result of an unfathomable level of pre-existent order (mental order) created by our ultimate “parent.”

(What we are talking about here is a level of order and fully-fruitioned "mental perfection" acquired by a single "soul" in possession of eternal life. And isn't that what every soul is seeking? - mental and spiritual perfection? We merely need to get past the idea that living consciousness needs an "earth-type" physical body in order to exist).

So anyway, by looking past the “thin veneer” of what appears to be reality, it is possible to intuitively sense the deeper reality supporting the "illusion" of the universe. And what the deeper reality reveals is that what we refer to as being the subatomic or "quantum realm" is actually the super-advanced informational foundation of God’s living mind that underpins and defines all of the objects in the universe, including our bodies, in the exact same way that the informational foundation of our own living minds underpins and defines all of the "objects" composing our dreams and mental holography. And the only difference is that God’s mind exists in a state of full consciousness (sans body) and is billions of years in advance of our minds – with ours being the encapsulated "embryos" of his.

The trick to understanding this is by not letting the overwhelming size, density, and advanced order of God’s mental holography (as viewed from the limited and relative perspective of our bodies) don’t let it throw you off from the deeper vision of what it all really is.

Instead, let it “humble you” as you begin to comprehend the level of power and control that God – a singular living consciousness just like you and me – has managed to acquire over the essence of his mind.

http://www.theultimateseeds.com

[magic1]

we do have creative control...faith... if you ask for a thing and know it but center yourself in the moment...then presto.... faith needs no attention to it...otherwise its not true faith, so your future has already been chosen by you, without you loosing focus on the here and now....and this whole idea of pple lining up their beliefs and positive thinking although has a place...just scratches the surface of the miraculous thing that we are engaging in....its not enough....

one has to know....just my two cents worth!

[seeds]

Originally Posted by Parthon

I am the creator, and as the creater I created everything. Then I created my avatar, which is the being I call Eric. Then I put my will and awareness into Eric. Lastly I created limitations, so I wouldn't know I am the creator, and I wouldn't have the power of a creator. Limitations enough to achieve what I wanted, but clues enough so I wouldn't be completely forgotten.

Eric is the creator's creation, limitations and all. My true self is the creator, but for now I am Eric.

So what does “Eric” the avatar think happens to Eric the avatar’s "self-awareness" and "personal identity," after Eric the avatar (who is actually “God”) relinquishes the body through-which the rest of us are now communing with "Eric" the avatar?

Will Eric still exist in a way in which Eric “knows” that he still exists?

And how does “Eric” the avatar’s departure from said body correlate with “Tiffany” the avatar, and “Judge” the avatar, and a hundred-thousand other avatars who may relinquish their bodies the same instant as you?

In a hundred and fifty years from now, what state of mind and consciousness do you honestly believe that Eric, Tiffany, and Judge will be functioning at? (Not to mention the other six billion of us avatars on earth at the present moment?)

And just to spice up the question a little, imagine that the idiots in charge, nuked the planet (a very real possibility) and wiped out all humanity, leaving no human bodies behind to propagate the avatar “containers” anymore.

In the philosophy of "Eric being the creator," does the integrity of each of our six billion individual consciousnesses and “personal identities” hold together and remain intact in this “out-of-body” condition, or do they just disappear into "oblivion" as they are reabsorbed back into the "oneness" of God’s being, or the "Source" as some like to use?

Will you, Eric, still possess a specific vantage point of “self-awareness” in such a way that will allow you to converse one-on-one (spirit-to-spirit, if you will) with the separate “self-aware” entity known to us now as Tiffany? Will you be able to reminisce with Tiffany about what you discussed in this forum back in this corporeal dimension of the universe?

And one of the most important questions of all is:

Will you still be able to "disagree" with Tiffany or Judge regarding any decisions that may be required within the context of that out-of-body dimension?

For a hypothetical example, your favorite color is red, Tiffany’s is blue, and Judge likes green. How will it work then, when it comes to decisions over how this universe will manifest?

The bottom line is -- who or what created this universe? Whose individual will reaches into the informational fabric of this universe and decides how this particular objective reality will look and function?

Is it your will, Eric, referring to yourself as the creator? Is it Tiffany’s will? What about her creator status? Or is it one of the other infinity of souls who make up the purported “oneness” of God?

(Or) Is it some strange amalgamation of all souls making the same decisions "simultaneously," like some kind of bizarre spiritual equivalent of the "Borg Collective" in Star Trek, with the universe being our "Cube?"

In my opinion, it has to be one of the following three possibilities:

"Oblivion." --- The "Borg Collective." --- Or what I implied in my post just prior to this one which proclaims that we are the spirit and mental "embryos" of God, with the inherent potential to become like God (with each of us presiding over our own personal "mental universe") forever evolving and advancing within the context of eternity and eternal life.

And Parthon (Eric) I am not trying to denigrate your beliefs in any way. I am sincerely and humbly interested in hearing everyone's opinion regarding the above subject. What do you truly think?


Your sibling,

Seeds

[torilink]

Originally Posted by Judge

Can you still intend and manifest stuff for your little self while within the illusion?

Yes, but you will get better results when you manifest from consciousness and not from your egoic self full of self concern and it may often seem like you didn’t get what you wanted, because your true self does not require it.

Jesus said (paraphrase) “I, of myself can do nothing, it is the father who does the works”

You can agree with this or disagree, but remember you created it

Judge

I'm not sure which of these you were quoting: John 5 - I can of my own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which has sent me.

which is to say he is aligned with consciousness - his will is the fathers will. To do his own will (Jesus) would be to do the ego's will.

but that isn't the same as manifesting through "Christ" which is not the ego and is not pure consciousness, it is rather the egoic mind in submission to present moment awareness, or the Christ Mind. And this is the state whereby the desire is made manifest in the outer reality - or how "Miracles" occur.

When it gets down to brass tacks, "I and my father are one" - its all consciousness, good, bad, or otherwise. Even if the Ego is projecting, it is still Consciousness believing itself to be a "Self" projecting negative beliefs out and manifesting its reality.

[songwriter]

"I am he as you are he as you are me
And we are all together"
the opening lines of I am The Walrus, a Beatle song.

John wanted to write something as meaningless as possible cause he was tired of people analizing their lyrics. But the more meaningless he wanted to be, the less he was, as he realized of that too.

God wrote that, and used John Lennon for that, letting himself go, surrending his ego... He wouldn't have written something like that if he consciously had tried.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by judge

Yes, but you will get better results when you manifest from consciousness and not from your egoic self full of self concern and it may often seem like you didn’t get what you wanted, because your true self does not require it.

Catch 22!


Does anyone create/manifest anything that isn't already there? I would say NO. In truth no-one solely creates anything at any time. Everything is interconnected and interdependent.
We do not create our physical selves and we do not solely create another physical being. All is co-creation.
The whole purpose of awakening is to awaken to the 'inner self' that is 100% solely created. Awaken to who and what is already there.

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by torilink

the Christ Mind. And this is the state whereby the desire is made manifest in the outer reality - or how "Miracles" occur.

When it gets down to brass tacks, "I and my father are one"

God knows, that mortals can not comprehend Him as "GOD"; & would reconceptualize Him acc. to mortal experiences.

So to help us, God referred to Himself like we do "family............, or water", both concepts with which we have mortal experience.
God thus spoke of Himself as any/all 3 = Father, Son, & Holy-ghost.

Some christians thinks of it like water = the same thing, whether as a liquid, a solid, or steam

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by Maguru

Does anyone create/manifest anything that isn't already there? I would say NO. We do not create our physical selves.

The whole purpose of awakening is to awaken to the 'inner self' that is 100% solely created. Awaken to who and what is already there.

Yes, we each re-create our mind & also body moment-to-moment

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by seeds

In a 150 years from now, what state of mind and consciousness do you honestly believe that Eric, Tiffany, and Judge will be functioning at? (Not to mention the other six billion of us avatars on earth at the present moment?)

This would be up to God, & each individual, to decide

Originally Posted by seeds

And just to spice up the question a little, imagine that the idiots in charge, nuked the planet (a very real possibility) and wiped out all humanity, leaving no human bodies behind to propagate the avatar “containers” anymore.

Reality, albeit hidden from most people, reveals THE FOOL HAS SAID IN HIS HEART, "THERE IS NO GOD." - led by the idiots in charge
who kill 1/4 of humanity, and later 1/3 of who is left. - But not all; for God/Jesus does return, to take us home.

Originally Posted by seeds

The bottom line is -- who or what created this universe?

Whose individual will reaches into the informational fabric of this universe
and decides how this particular objective reality will look and function?

2 separate questions

Originally Posted by seeds

In my opinion,
this one which proclaims that we are the spirit and mental "embryos" of God,
with the inherent potential to become like God (with each of us presiding over our own personal "mental universe") forever evolving and advancing within the context of eternity and eternal life.

I am sincerely and humbly interested in hearing everyone's opinion regarding the above subject. What do you truly think?

Your sibling, Seeds

Are you a Mormon?
Their theology is: "As man is now, God once was.
As GOD is now, man may become"

not a chance!
.

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by Parthon

I am the creator, and as the creater I created everything. Then I created my avatar, which is the being I call Eric. Then I put my will and awareness into Eric. Lastly I created limitations
Hi!

Well, first GOD created everything; & you (along with the rest of us) were one of God's latest creations.

After God created your *individual* Soul, & Mind, & Body,
He then blessed you with a bazillion choices... choose Well!

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by Judge

You are creating everything, but
that also includes what you think of as your mind, your body and its desires.

Yes, we do & can recreate these; which is why God/Jesus us invited to "Choose ye well..."

[SarahLuvzYu]

Originally Posted by Judge

To wake up to the fact that you are the only conscious being here and the illusion of imperfection must be accepted internally and then eventually dissolved.

I consider this imperfection, perfection

Who decides what is imperfect? Society? Yourself? Consciousness?

[Parthon]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

Well, first GOD created everything; & you (along with the rest of us) were one of God's latest creations.

After God created your *individual* Soul, & Mind, & Body,
He then blessed you with a bazillion choices... choose Well!

Pretty much. God's creation is completely unlike what we conceive it as though. I think that's why so many science minded people have such trouble with it.

Seeds: Whoa! That's a lot of questions. Can I answer them one by one? I'm speaking as Eric this time.

Originally Posted by seeds

So what does “Eric” the avatar think happens to Eric the avatar’s "self-awareness" and "personal identity," after Eric the avatar (who is actually “God”) relinquishes the body through-which the rest of us are now communing with "Eric" the avatar?

I think the body, the personal identity and the self awareness becomes as dust, and little more than a memory in the minds of others. It is also remembered by God, but not as we think. As he exists at all times, we still live. It's only because we are bound by time do we think in terms of "loss" and passing".

Will Eric still exist in a way in which Eric “knows” that he still exists?

Yes, for now. But I think there will come a point where "Eric" will not exist as he knows himself to exist. Perhaps he will reintegrate with the essence of God, when he has existed long enough.

And how does “Eric” the avatar’s departure from said body correlate with “Tiffany” the avatar, and “Judge” the avatar, and a hundred-thousand other avatars who may relinquish their bodies the same instant as you?

I'm not sure how they would correlate at all. Passing is just part of our time bound nature, and it will come to pass. I don't think there's any correlation between multiple avatars dying at the same time. Or at least, if there is, the correlation is a choce and not inherent.

In a hundred and fifty years from now, what state of mind and consciousness do you honestly believe that Eric, Tiffany, and Judge will be functioning at? (Not to mention the other six billion of us avatars on earth at the present moment?)

I can't say. The goal of existance is to grow, experience and progress, but whether these avatars will exist to witness it is another matter. Perhaps the human race as we know it will be way better off, or worse off. Only time will tell. We are bound in time, that's one of our limitations.

And just to spice up the question a little, imagine that the idiots in charge, nuked the planet (a very real possibility) and wiped out all humanity, leaving no human bodies behind to propagate the avatar “containers” anymore.

Well then, God will just have to create a whole new planet for it all, or perhaps he already has. I doubt Earth is that consequential for the development of the universe.

In the philosophy of "Eric being the creator," does the integrity of each of our six billion individual consciousnesses and “personal identities” hold together and remain intact in this “out-of-body” condition, or do they just disappear into "oblivion" as they are reabsorbed back into the "oneness" of God’s being, or the "Source" as some like to use?

I think they are left intact. They of course wouldn't be able to keep their physical bodies as they "cross over" but their spiritual energy will remain intact. Eventually though, the spiritual energy might choose to return to "Source" and dissipate. We are a part of Source/God, but experience seperation for a purpose. To know God fully once more, we'd have to lose our seperateness. Then we cease to exist as an individual and become one with the whole again.

Will you, Eric, still possess a specific vantage point of “self-awareness” in such a way that will allow you to converse one-on-one (spirit-to-spirit, if you will) with the separate “self-aware” entity known to us now as Tiffany? Will you be able to reminisce with Tiffany about what you discussed in this forum back in this corporeal dimension of the universe?

I would say so.

And one of the most important questions of all is:

Will you still be able to "disagree" with Tiffany or Judge regarding any decisions that may be required within the context of that out-of-body dimension?

Yes!

For a hypothetical example, your favorite color is red, Tiffany’s is blue, and Judge likes green. How will it work then, when it comes to decisions over how this universe will manifest?

That's a tricky question. The only thing I could think of is that we are just agents of God. We have limitations, and we can only affect what we can. Being out-of-body makes it even harder, as we don't have physical bodies with which to control directly. In the end, the final creation and manifestation is up to God, as it *is* God, we just participate. We have power over what we have power over, and if there is a clash of power, then conflict arises.

The bottom line is -- who or what created this universe? Whose individual will reaches into the informational fabric of this universe and decides how this particular objective reality will look and function?

God/source is everything. Everything that could, does, did and will exist is contained already in God. Existance is the line of possibility between everything that could exist and everything that doesn't exist. A single state of form and time as the boundary between everything and nothing that we call reality. It's just a possibility. Source's creation is the great authority so to speak, but he has given our individualities power of our own in order to shape it and experience it how we wish, to an extent.

Is it your will, Eric, referring to yourself as the creator? Is it Tiffany’s will? What about her creator status? Or is it one of the other infinity of souls who make up the purported “oneness” of God?

All are one. We are all the will that make up the Creator. The Creator is us, manifest.

(Or) Is it some strange amalgamation of all souls making the same decisions "simultaneously," like some kind of bizarre spiritual equivalent of the "Borg Collective" in Star Trek, with the universe being our "Cube?"

Pretty much. But it's more spiritual/experiential rather than mental. We can have individual minds in form, seperate energies in spirit and all connected through being Source.

In my opinion, it has to be one of the following three possibilities:

"Oblivion." --- The "Borg Collective." --- Or what I implied in my post just prior to this one which proclaims that we are the spirit and mental "embryos" of God, with the inherent potential to become like God (with each of us presiding over our own personal "mental universe") forever evolving and advancing within the context of eternity and eternal life.

And Parthon (Eric) I am not trying to denigrate your beliefs in any way. I am sincerely and humbly interested in hearing everyone's opinion regarding the above subject. What do you truly think?

Your sibling,

Seeds

Thanks for your well thought out questions. I definately didn't experience that you were trying to denigrate me, but instead just trying to get another view on how someone else looks at the universe. That's awesome.

My view mainly stems from the fact that the universe and everything in it is a part of Source/God. We are avatars of God, and so is the universe. Yes, the universe is an Avatar too, and everything in it as well. Each thing in the universe has a different level of connectedness, a different level of communicative awareness. A rock isn't aware of much, but Source is definately aware of the rock.

As a human though, we are far more aware than other entities on our planet, and probably solar system. I can't speak for other sentient life forms though, not even dolphins. It's that awareness that allows us to question, ponder and theorise about our very nature. As we do it though, as source comes to us through that connection, people often get answers, not just theories. The true nature of the universe becomes clear, but there's no way to prove it.

As for "becoming godlike", I think it's a useless endeavour. Our goal should be to be more ourselves than not. It's to find the real limitations on us and work within them to create what we want to experience in the universe around us. It's getting rid of the untrue limitations that hold us back from being all that we can me. It's true that I, unaided, can't fly by flapping my arms, for now. That's a true limitations. It's untrue however that if I make a fool of myself when public speaking that somehow I will be fundamentally hurt. That's a good limitation to get rid of.

Source created us, as a facet of Source. We are powerful, but not all-powerful, and it's all for a reason. We don't even need to know what that reason is, just that we live as best as we can; that in itself is very very subjective.

[seeds]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

Reality, albeit hidden from most people, reveals THE FOOL HAS SAID IN HIS HEART, "THERE IS NO GOD." - led by the idiots in charge
who kill 1/4 of humanity, and later 1/3 of who is left. - But not all; for God/Jesus does return, to take us home.

Are you a Mormon?
Their theology is: "As man is now, God once was.
As GOD is now, man may become"

not a chance!

sk8joyful, thank you for your comments.

On my website I have an illustration that I devised to help us visualize eternity.

In the illustration I have created a “measuring device” that designates one grain of sand as being the equivalent of one billion years.

Now according to the materialist’s view of the universe, all physical reality began in a point-particle genesis – smaller than a human “zygote” (no small analogy) approximately 15 to 20 billion years ago in an alleged “Big Bang” (in the illustration I round the figure to 20 billion years).

The point is that the entire age of the universe can be represented by 20 grains of sand.

That means that a thousand grains of sand (a thimble full?) is a thousand billion years. That’s 50 times the age of the universe.

Now just picture in your mind how many thimbles of sand there are in the last beach you walked on.

That is just a “glimpse” of eternity.

The ultimate point is, sk8joyful, if you believe in eternal life, and if you believe that Jesus is coming back to take you "home," then whatever this “home” is, and whatever your ultimate form is going to be, it must be a setting and a form that can withstand an endlessness that boggles the imagination. It must be a logical form that "makes absolute sense" when projected into an eternity that defies all comprehension as seen in the measuring device.

Now all of the old images of “heaven” handed down to us from our ancestors; images and visions that portray us in the clouds, playing harps, singing hymns with the angels, and staring at God/Jesus in some beatific vision, may be a "real hoot" for the first 10 thimbles of sand worth of time (500 times the age of the universe). However, after the next 10 thimbles, it could get a little old, don’t you think? Even for God and Jesus.

In Biblical teachings, humans are generally referred to as the “children” of God – "created in God’s image" (Genesis). It also states: “…it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that when he shall appear, we shall be like him…” (1, John, 3:2). Also: “…for in him we live and move and have our being...for we are also his offspring…” (Acts, 17:29). And of course the central theme of the New Testament is that Jesus is the “son” of God.

I believe (as many do) that the Bible (for the most part) is “allegorical” in its messages. However, in the case of the above “familial” references, I believe them to be literal.

So Jesus is the literal son of God. But realize, that if we are allowed to take the above Biblical quotes literally, then all human beings are the sons and daughters of God; the siblings of Jesus, and the literal “offspring” (progeny) of the Creator of this universe.

So the question I now pose to you is: What does a “son” and all of the other offspring of a particular living entity grow up to become like?

You know what I am getting at here.

Now unless you want to think of our familial relationship to God as being the spiritual equivalent of some senior citizen, affectionately presenting her scraggly old poodle to us as being her “son” or “daughter,” then I would suggest to you that our ultimate form and eternal purpose is far more wondrous than our limited conception of reality allows us to comprehend at the present moment.

At the instant of death, "...we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye..." (1, Cor., 15:51-52). We will shed our gender based perceptions of each other and awaken into a “genderless, wholeness of being” as is God. And when we finally meet God, spirit being to spirit being, "...we shall be like him..."

Just plug the full implications of us being the “offspring of God” metaphor into the measuring device and see how that plays out on the stage of eternity.

Now if you protest that it is just too fantastic to be true, you've got me there. However, I still believe it nonetheless.

(P.S. I suggest that everyone plug their belief system into the “measuring device” and project it into eternity. If the presumed conditions of your ultimate form seem to fizzle out into a misty fog of purposelessness, then it is probably wrong.)

Again, sk8joyful, thank you for your comments.

Your sibling,

Seeds

[Judge]

Originally Posted by TiffyLove

Could you elaborate on that further? I honestly can't tell you what I want to know more of or if any specific questions, I would just like to hear more about manifesting from consciousness.

The reason why our ego is never happy is because we want to create pleasure and not pain, but in truth, the ego is a creation itself and therefore cannot create anything of itself. You create all the ego's, use one directly to observe it all through and then fall into a self set trap of believing you are the first person pespective.

The only way to experience is through the flasehood of perceived seperation.

All the problems with LoA and IM stem from the fact that the ego thinks it is creative and gets very frustrated when it wants to create pleasure and not pain and even more frustration sets in when in can't manifest on a consistant level at all. The illusion that the ego is creative is simply that, an illusion.

All words are pointers and can never reveal the truth in themselves, they can point to it, but it can only ever be known and not described........so with that in mind how does consciousness manifest??

Through no self concern.

When there is no self concern, there is no limitation. The limitiation is the egoic tool (basically the 5 senses) that defines everything. Pleasure and pain, suffering and joy. The ego observes seperation, so seperates everything into good or bad.

Consciousness (god/source/energy being etc) has no self concern (how can it) so it has no limitation and can (and does) manifest all things instantly. The perceiveable problem with that is there is no time, no growth and no sense of truly defined seperation. It all happens at once. This is pretty much how night time dreams work and you wake up and know it was just a dream. The waking world is more dense, so the reality must be more stable and more reliable and of course more limiting, but it's still illusionary.

When you view the reality as consciousness, there truly are no problems, no suffering and no pain, even pleasure is the same thing as pain. As it's all fleeting, it has no enduring qualities, just like night time dreams when there is pleasure and pain, you wake up and none of it matters.

Most people seeking self development are trying to develop the wrong self (the ego) and they want pleasure and no pain. The truth is that true self development is about awakening to the simple fact you are the supreme being, you are consciousness itself and to view reality from that POV.

Consciousness uses dreams to experience everything it is not. The waking world is not more real that the night time dream world. More dense, more convincing, but no-thing that is fleeting and has no true permanency is real.

For all existance to be, there is something that never changes, never grows and never dies, we call it space, god, consciousness, being, but in truth it's what you are.

Originally Posted by Arboretor

Judge, I knew that your farewell would not last God can not leave his creation behind

But I am glad you found some more words

Yeah, that's my ego for ya

Judge

[Dot]

Originally Posted by Judge

Think about something you want to manifest right now........did it appear?

I wanted to be reading this forum. And ...poof... here I am. : )

[Dot]

I just saw a reference on this forum to Napoleon Hill's "Think and Grow Rich," which gave me the thought to read the book. Less than a minute later I found a PDF of the original version and downloaded it, and ...poof... I'm reading the book now.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Dot

I wanted to be reading this forum. And ...poof... here I am. : )

Originally Posted by Dot

I just saw a reference on this forum to Napoleon Hill's "Think and Grow Rich," which gave me the thought to read the book. Less than a minute later I found a PDF of the original version and downloaded it, and ...poof... I'm reading the book now.

The illusion is very convincng isn't it tell us about the times when you want to manifest something and it doesn't happen.

Of course the LoA devotees will tell you it's because you are manifesting (thinking about) the opposite of what you say you want and that's why you get the thing you say you don't want.

There's a greater power at work here in this reality other than the illusional power of thought manifesting reality. You can choose to believe in the LoA and thought manifesting reality, I will admit it's somewhat convincing, but for me, there are too many unanswerable questions within the proposed formulas.

Judge

[Parthon]

Well, if you aren't creating what you want, then why not?

Perhaps you are creating what you want, you just don't know that you want it. Perhaps there's a fundamental lesson to be learnt from what you are creating, that you need to learn before you stop creating it.

[RubberDuck]

Ultimately I guess that the lesson is not to resist what is and simply trust the inner workings of the universe.

RD

[MacFly]

Originally Posted by Judge

The illusion is very convincng isn't it tell us about the times when you want to manifest something and it doesn't happen.

Of course the LoA devotees will tell you it's because you are manifesting (thinking about) the opposite of what you say you want and that's why you get the thing you say you don't want.

There's a greater power at work here in this reality other than the illusional power of thought manifesting reality. You can choose to believe in the LoA and thought manifesting reality, I will admit it's somewhat convincing, but for me, there are too many unanswerable questions within the proposed formulas.

Judge

yeah. LoA believers will always tell you that YOU are doing something wrong. Don't matter how they fail, they'll always find an excuse, because they want to find an excuse. They even blame themselves when LoA fails. And when they feel like they really did everything they can (visualizing, affirmations, feeling, vibing, etc.) and no results happen, they bring another joker card : beliefs. I don't have that thousand dollars because I don't believe I can have it. But "beliefs" have their roots in the "ordinary", "logical" way of thinking, so the circle ends up where it came from : "If I don't work, I won't have that thousand dollars". So what was the point?

So the question is not "how I can be a millionaire without work?", but "why I want to be a millionaire?" and "why I don't want to work?". I guess because you want to be in the future.

[Judge]

It all comes back to...."who is the creator?"

As the ego mind/body is never truly happy even when in pleasure, then it would make sense that it is a false self laying claim to being the creator.

Don't trust what anyone says, especially your avatar.

Gurus and people who share knowledge, while seemingly helpful are brief steps in the awakening process. You use them to help you, but like words they themselves are simply pointers.

Judge

[MacFly]

but how can I create as consciousness?

don't get me wrong, I do know that wanting 10000 dollars, or a mercedes, is from ego, and consciousness doesn't care about these material things, but still..

[drama07]

Originally Posted by MacFly

but how can I create as consciousness?

don't get me wrong, I do know that wanting 10000 dollars, or a mercedes, is from ego, and consciousness doesn't care about these material things, but still..

You know its ego wanting it but you still want it... that is just ego Ego wants to control conciousness and create, but doesnt know that ego is itself a creation of conciousness.

Ignore what ego says. Pay no attention to it. The ego and its wants is an illusion so why even care.

[MacFly]

Originally Posted by drama07

You know its ego wanting it but you still want it... that is just ego

Ignore what ego says. Pay no attention to it. The ego and its wants is an illusion so why even care.

okay but that's not an answer to my question.

it's like asking "how can I get a hamburger?" and saying "you're not hungry".

[drama07]

Originally Posted by MacFly

okay but that's not an answer to my question.

it's like asking "how can I get a hamburger?" and saying "you're not hungry".

Okay you want your question answered... here it is.

"You, as the ego, cannot create as conciousness" - period.

"You, as the conciousness, is creating all the time"