Nisargadatta Maharaj's 'I AM'

[drama07]

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj says all you need to do is dwell on 'I am'. For those who are familiar with what I'm talking about... please elaborate.

Quote from "I am That":

M: Why not turn away from the experience to the experiencer and realise the full import of the only true statement you can make: 'I am'?

Q: How is it done?

M:There is no 'how' here. Just keep in mind the feeling 'I am', merge in it, till your mind and feeling become one. By repeated attempts you will stumble on the right balance of attention and affection and your mind will be firmly established in the thought-feeling 'I am'. Whatever you think, say, or do, this sense of immutable and affectionate being remains as the ever-present background of the mind.

[drama07]

How can you realize with the mind, when the mind is itself the problem. ??

Yeah I know, I thought i had the answers but I do not

[Liveformx64]

I believe you do not conceive with the mind. You only perceive with the physical mind.

The Conceiving comes from the non-physical side where you brain then picks up its own perception of the signal or transmission.

Maybe thinking of it like this can help you?

[ilrein]

Originally Posted by drama07

How can you realize with the mind, when the mind is itself the problem. ??

Yeah I know, I thought i had the answers but I do not

Because the belief that your mind is a problem is downright ridiculous.

M: Why not turn away from the experience to the experiencer and realise the full import of the only true statement you can make: 'I am'?

It is tricky to analyze this because it is placed out of context. I suspect however, through "experience to the experiencer" he is talking about outer and inner reality, to realize that identifying purely with the outer reality will never allow you to understand your being.

When he says "I am", he may be explaining the mesh of outer and internal reality, knowing that neither are separate without the other, and only exist as an extension of the Self. Simply put, I Am is being presently aware.

M:There is no 'how' here. Just keep in mind the feeling 'I am', merge in it, till your mind and feeling become one. By repeated attempts you will stumble on the right balance of attention and affection and your mind will be firmly established in the thought-feeling 'I am'. Whatever you think, say, or do, this sense of immutable and affectionate being remains as the ever-present background of the mind.

As I'm sure you know, everything is connected. By knowing I Am you can feel the energy of the entire universe, perhaps not at first, but you will be able to center yourself, find "the right balance of attention and affection". Search up "grounding exercises". The ideas are similar. When you are grounded, when you have balance, everything thing you think, feel, and act upon, you will do so with the underlying knowledge of I Am, that everything is connected within you, and a part of you.

[Antarananda]

I am most aligned with Nisargadatta's and Ramana Maharshi's approach to Enquiry. Happy to see it being discussed here - a refreshing break from all the confusion

I have a page of instructions on how to perform Enquiry (which Nisargadatta refers to as holding onto the "I am") written by an anonymous devotee of Ramana Maharshi. It is very clear, and actually goes into detail about what to expect as one progresses towards full Realization. I'm sharing it here.

I would recommend all serious seekers of truth to experiment with such an approach rather than get caught up in semantics and mental gymnastics about "awareness" and "being God". Few I know or have encountered are permanently established in the illumined state of consciousness from which these true Masters spoke.

[drama07]

Originally Posted by Antarananda

I am most aligned with Nisargadatta's and Ramana Maharshi's approach to Enquiry. Happy to see it being discussed here - a refreshing break from all the confusion

I have a page of instructions on how to perform Enquiry (which Nisargadatta refers to as holding onto the "I am") written by an anonymous devotee of Ramana Maharshi. It is very clear, and actually goes into detail about what to expect as one progresses towards full Realization. I'm sharing it here.

I would recommend all serious seekers of truth to experiment with such an approach rather than get caught up in semantics and mental gymnastics about "awareness" and "being God". Few I know or have encountered are permanently established in the illumined state of consciousness from which these true Masters spoke.

Can you explain what the article is talking about? It says that we must act as if we were drowning, desperate for air.

The article reminded me about eckhart tolle saying that effort and effortless must become one.

[torilink]

Originally Posted by drama07

Can you explain what the article is talking about? It says that we must act as if we were drowning, desperate for air.

The article reminded me about eckhart tolle saying that effort and effortless must become one.

The quote from the article:

First and foremost Bhagavan stated that self-enquiry should be performed with the same intensity as that of a drowning man struggling for air, only then can it succeed.

Self-enquiry is holding on to the awareness of being that ‘you already are’.

It is simply letting go of all else. It is the process of release of past/future and all concepts of self (ego), remaining present in the moment, and acceptance that You are complete NOW. As a drowning man struggles for air, we must be vigilant to maintain PMA (present moment awareness) - It is our true self it is life itself.

[spacedout]

Originally Posted by drama07

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj says all you need to do is dwell on 'I am'. For those who are familiar with what I'm talking about... please elaborate.

Quote from "I am That":

Like Antarananda, I too am happy to see this subject being disussed.
What Nisargadatta Maharaj is talking about, is that one doesn't realize with the mind. In known 'I AM', there is no thinking involved.

The 'I AM' is the Witness - the Self - the True Being; not the mind or the body. In other words, the experiencer is the Witness and the experience is the body and the mind.

The Witness is always present but is masked over by desires, fears, etc. - negative thoughts and emotions. To unveil the Wintess one must be able to completely quiet the mind and "feel" every sensation of the body (heart beat, breath, aches, pains, etc.) and witness all thoughts, both negative and positive. Once one becomes the Witness he will realize that he is neither the body or the mind. This is what Nisargadatta means by 'I AM'.

[drama07]

Originally Posted by torilink

The quote from the article:


It is simply letting go of all else. It is the process of release of past/future and all concepts of self (ego), remaining present in the moment, and acceptance that You are complete NOW. As a drowning man struggles for air, we must be vigilant to maintain PMA (present moment awareness) - It is our true self it is life itself.

I get the impression all that we should have in our minds is the thought 'I AM'. To dwell upon the thought 'I AM', does Maharaj say this so that eventually we will realize without mind? Because dwelling a thought of 'I AM" is just another direction to a new belief system... no?

Isnt trying to focus on present moment awareness an effort?

Like Antarananda, I too am happy to see this subject being disussed.
What Nisargadatta Maharaj is talking about, is that one doesn't realize with the mind. In known 'I AM', there is no thinking involved.

The 'I AM' is the Witness - the Self - the True Being; not the mind or the body. In other words, the experiencer is the Witness and the experience is the body and the mind.

The Witness is always present but is masked over by desires, fears, etc. - negative thoughts and emotions. To unveil the Wintess one must be able to completely quiet the mind and "feel" every sensation of the body (heart beat, breath, aches, pains, etc.) and witness all thoughts, both negative and positive. Once one becomes the Witness he will realize that he is neither the body or the mind. This is what Nisargadatta means by 'I AM'.

The experiencer is the witness, but the witness is itself an experience. I remember noting that in his book. He also states not to put attention on any thoughts other than "I AM". Is this all thats needed. What makes him different from eckhart tolle, adyashanti, & other teachers, OR are they all pretty much sayings different things that point to the same?

[torilink]

Originally Posted by drama07

I get the impression all that we should have in our minds is the thought 'I AM'. To dwell upon the thought 'I AM', does Maharaj say this so that eventually we will realize without mind? Because dwelling a thought of 'I AM" is just another direction to a new belief system... no?

Isnt trying to focus on present moment awareness an effort?

I cannot speak for Maharaj but I can comment as to my own belief about what he meant. To me it is all about egoic submission. I believe that this process of undoing, to find what I am, I must first realize what I am not. The true self already knows what it is, so the process is for the ego.

Who is it that must realize what it is not? And, what is it that must remain present? Consciousness is always present, and if that is my true state of being then what I truly am (I AM) is always in PMA... but the egoic Identity is what is covering that and needs undone and only the ego can undo itself, and submit to the NOW. This is the sacrifice/death/resurrection to the Christ Mind, ego in alignment with I AM.

[Manomanman]

It sounds like a reiteration of the old Cartesian idea, "I think, therefore I am."

Timothy Leary would simply say, "All the games go away, and you realize that you're a single point of conscious experience, not your job, not your salary, etc."

The original quote is kind of esoteric and difficult to interpret.

[drama07]

Originally Posted by torilink

I cannot speak for Maharaj but I can comment as to my own belief about what he meant. To me it is all about egoic submission. I believe that this process of undoing, to find what I am, I must first realize what I am not. The true self already knows what it is, so the process is for the ego.

Who is it that must realize what it is not? And, what is it that must remain present? Consciousness is always present, and if that is my true state of being then what I truly am (I AM) is always in PMA... but the egoic Identity is what is covering that and needs undone and only the ego can undo itself, and submit to the NOW. This is the sacrifice/death/resurrection to the Christ Mind, ego in alignment with I AM.

So all that is required to know what you are not. Whenever a situation occurs whether it is positive or negative, i must remind myself(ego) that whatever occurs to the body & mind during that situation aint me. Say i become extremely happy, I must know that momentary happiness aint me. I must remind myself that the thoughts aints me, the body aint me. I must use the mind itself to remind everything im not?

What if I want to be this, I want to be that? What if I want to be stuck in this dream state? This is what my mind wants and I understand its the ego fearing its end. But the resistance is overwhelming and yet I must know that it aint me and surrender. All in all I still suffer and in pain, and that is practically deep down why im into this enlightenment idea - to irradicate pain & suffering. ( But I know that pain & suffering aint me and there shouldn't any reason why I should eliminate it)

[torilink]

Originally Posted by drama07

So all that is required to know what you are not. Whenever a situation occurs whether it is positive or negative, i must remind myself(ego) that whatever occurs to the body & mind during that situation aint me. Say i become extremely happy, I must know that momentary happiness aint me. I must remind myself that the thoughts aints me, the body aint me. I must use the mind itself to remind everything im not?

What if I want to be this, I want to be that? What if I want to be stuck in this dream state? This is what my mind wants and I understand its the ego fearing its end. But the resistance is overwhelming and yet I must know that it aint me and surrender. All in all I still suffer and in pain, and that is practically deep down why im into this enlightenment idea - to irradicate pain & suffering. ( But I know that pain & suffering aint me and there shouldn't any reason why I should eliminate it)

yes, have the experience - enjoy it or don't, but allow it to be and don't identify with it. You have experiences, you are not those experiences. The mind accumulates information about experiences (the past) formulates associations between them and emotions and uses them as filters for our perception when we Identify with them on that level.... so it's similar to Tolle saying to just watch, be present, allow....

[Antarananda]

Originally Posted by drama07

I get the impression all that we should have in our minds is the thought 'I AM'. To dwell upon the thought 'I AM', does Maharaj say this so that eventually we will realize without mind? Because dwelling a thought of 'I AM" is just another direction to a new belief system... no?

Isnt trying to focus on present moment awareness an effort?


The experiencer is the witness, but the witness is itself an experience. I remember noting that in his book. He also states not to put attention on any thoughts other than "I AM". Is this all thats needed. What makes him different from eckhart tolle, adyashanti, & other teachers, OR are they all pretty much sayings different things that point to the same?

drama07: You don't maintain any thought. The "I Am" he refers to was called Aham Sphurana in Sanskrit by Ramana Maharshi. It essentially means "the 'I' impulse". When you point to yourself as you, where do you point? Most probably to the center of your chest, the heart region. Why is that so? It's because that is the physical location where the sense of "I" actually can be traced to.

It doesn't arise from the head or the mind. To actually understand this requires following the method of exclusively directing the attention to that sense of "I-ness" with total dedication. It soon becomes effortless because all other thoughts, sensations, feelings, impressions fade away when one engages in this observation.

Remember that Maharaj would sit in his room the entire day, engaged in holding on to the "I am" to the exclusion of all else. Besides time for essential bodily activities, he spent al his time for a few years just resting in the I Am. That's the kind of dedication that the man gasping for air analogy refers to. You do it until it becomes your entire life.

BTW, Adya, Tolle are pointing to the same. The mind and ideas necessarily can only speak of it, but can never fully articulate the non-dual state, because it is attributeless and pristine and the substratum of everything and nothing

Maharaj didn't say the witness is the experience, IIRC. He said that the Real is beyond the act of witnessing / experiencing. The experiencer, experienced, and the act of experiencing dissolve and what remains shining is the non-dual Self.

Originally Posted by Manomanman

It sounds like a reiteration of the old Cartesian idea, "I think, therefore I am."

No. The I am has absolutely nothing to do with thinking or the mind. It is beyond the mind.

Originally Posted by spacedout

What Nisargadatta Maharaj is talking about, is that one doesn't realize with the mind. In known 'I AM', there is no thinking involved.

True.

[pianoperformer]

So how exactly does one apply this in meditation? From what I gather, it's not thinking anything, but just being aware of the observer / awareness, separate from all thoughts and experience?

[Antarananda]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

So how exactly does one apply this in meditation? From what I gather, it's not thinking anything, but just being aware of the observer / awareness, separate from all thoughts and experience?

Yes, correct. If you are able to easily disengage from your thought process / mind, then just resting in pure awareness is the best way. Otherwise observing all thoughts, sensations, feelings, emotions without labeling, as done in Buddhist Vipassana practice is a way to start resting in pure awareness.

Once you become adept at it, you can actually tangibly experience the "I...I... impulse" arising within the body (between the navel and the heart center). Your awareness will begin to concentrate in that area. Just be in that.

[supertom]

all you have to do is focus on the "I am" ness, every spare moment you have, thats what he did

[drama07]

I dont understand. How do you focus on the 'I am', how did Maharaj do it? During his days all he did was put attention to his heart?

Also Maharaj states desires are wrong if they cause sorrow. Most desires I have cause me sorrow because they are self-centered. He says to stop desiring those, but isnt stopping just resisting the 'what is' of desires that pop up?

What if the mind keeps pulling you into it (causing you(awareness) to be blocked)? It seems difficult to keep full awareness to thoughts, feelings, etc. without identifying with them again. I heard some tell me once, that adyanshanti's the end of the world answers the questions I have.

I respect all your responses. I have read a lot about enlightenment and Maharaj's book 'I am That' by far is the deepest.

[spacedout]

In his interview, one of the most profound things that Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj said was "To be a living being is not the ultimate state; there is something beyond, much more wonderful, which is neither being nor non-being, neither living nor not-living. It is a state of pure awareness, beyond the limitations of space and time." Pure awareness can be developed - see Pureawareness.com.

[schola]

You can find the book for free here: http://www.maharajnisargadatta.com/I_Am_That.pdf

Reading the comments here, I don't think most people have even found the "I Am" sense in themselves. It's not anywhere in your physical body. It might be beyond the mind, but it's intimately connected with thought. In fact it's behind every thought.

This link might be helpful.

Realization.org: Self-Inquiry (Vicara)

Ramana Maharshi sometimes described the heart center as an actual object located in the right side of the chest, but at other times he said this was an oversimplification for people who couldn't understand the truth. According to H.W.L Poonja, Ramana Maharshi told him:


When I speak of the 'I' rising from the right side of the body, from a location on the right side of the chest, the information is for those people who still think that they are the body. To these people I say that the Heart is located there. But it is really not quite correct to say that the 'I' rises from and merges in the Heart on the right side of the chest. The Heart is another name for the Reality and it is neither inside nor outside the body; there can be no in or out for it, since it alone is. I do not mean by 'Heart' any physiological organ or any plexus or anything like that…8

[Antarananda]

I was actually refering to the Aham Sphurana, which might be different from the "I am" Nisargadatta spoke of. I have some older works of Nisargadatta where he explains about the "I am" not being the final Reality.

BTW I studied with an Enlightened Master, who also endorsed the method of tracing the "I-I" (video link) as it emanates as an impulse from within the body. It is, again, not the final Reality, but as close as one can get to the knowing the Atman through the means of the locus of consciousness that is the body.

The physical point I mentioned as the location is actually a marker. The actual location is known as the hridaya granthi, or the heart knot. It is a metaphysical location, the meeting point of matter and consciousness. I didn't want to complicate things, so I kept my explanation simple and confined to the physical realm


See this:

Sri Ramana Maharshi on 'I' and 'I-I', p.1

I do practice Atma Vichara, and have experienced some of the transcendental states as detailed in that document I linked to. The breaking of the knot of ignorance has not been permanent yet. The mind and body dissolves in temporary samadhi, yet comes back into the field of the world.

[schola]

The point of self inquiry as I understand it is to find the subjective moment or watcher or seer.

Asking certain questions such as "Who am I" might lead you to the I AM sense. I got frustrated with self inquiry when other random thoughts kept invading my head. Then the question emerged, "For who's benefit do these thoughts occur?" Bingo. The I AM sense became obvious. That sense is what I focus on when I do self inquiry now, although I notice it as something that is always here and always was here.

I call it the I AM sense for simplicity, although there is really nothing objective about it. It's a completely subjective feeling.

[spacedout]

This person experiences I AM as the Witness, mentioned earlier. It is a state of non-identification with the body and the mind. Identification with the body and the mind is the cause of suffering to the body and the mind, not to you. You are the Witness. Beyond the Witness is Pure Awareness, of which Nisargadatta spoke. Pure awareness is beyond witnessing anything. It is a state of being one with everything and completely non-judgmental of anything. However, it is very easy to be drawn back to duality by the simplest of distractions. That's why many seekers remain isolated during their practice. On the other hand, it is very difficult to be the Witness while carrying on daily activities, because of distractions, and almost impossible to be in pure awareness.

[drama07]

Originally Posted by spacedout

On the other hand, it is very difficult to be the Witness while carrying on daily activities, because of distractions, and almost impossible to be in pure awareness.

Yes exactly. It seems easy to be the witness when you are alone and not bombarded with thoughts and feeling such as when a situation is not accepted.

Thanks Antarananda & schloca for those link. They help my mind understand it better

[Antarananda]

Originally Posted by spacedout

...it is very difficult to be the Witness while carrying on daily activities, because of distractions, and almost impossible to be in pure awareness.

Once the Ahamkara ("I-maker") breaks, then it matters not what activities the body and mind carry on with. It is described in both articles I have linked to.

Here is another description of complete Realization, from an enlightened one a good friend of mine corresponds with and has met. True Realization is a very rare phenomenon.

[spacedout]

Let's do an experiential study and see how long each of us in the thread can stay as I AM for the next 24 hours. Try to be as accurate as possible. Report back this time tomorrow.

[drama07]

Im yet unable to understand from those links. How can you put attention on I AM without thinking it? Im not a complex reader so you guys need to simplify it for me Or maybe im just too sick.

[Judge]

Are you having a life or are you life itself.

If you look at your life, of course it will end and it's basically a seeking of pleasure while attempting to void pain. A lifetime of pleasure would even become painful. The pleasure is the same as pain, it's all the same, just defined differently via ego.

Pain is a more useful tool to help you wake up, because it shows self concern for what it truly is, a self limiting and blocking mechanism. You use your god powers to limit your powers to see what it's like to not be god.

The ego, your little human self is the limiting tool.

The pointer 'I am' is a statement of truth, a centering of self, but the ego can't say it, for it's not true from that perspective and of course even the 'I am' must be dropped.

You realise you are the polar opposite of all you think you are, that's why you have to lose everything to gain everything, to see what you are not, to find the only thing you can be. You are the container, you are life itself and everything is inside you, including your little self the ego.

The guru's words are truth that you hide within another and others to show you the way back to truth, but the egoic self concern blocks much of the perception of truth by adding streams of words, opinions, writings and advice, which of course where self concern can continue to grow.

When you create one person (ego you) you create a world full of other people and the world itself, when in truth there are no others, there can't be. The idea of 6 billion seperate consciousness is still rooted in egoic self concern. The need to not be alone in the world, the need for self concern.

Judge

[drama07]

So am I suppose to just allow the body to suffer with this mind? Since none of those are me and im the life itself, whatever happens happens and like the thread I started about no control, I absolutely have no control. So all these desires just need to be and cause suffering and all I should do is be in isolation alone just like I was all these years and be with 'I AM'.

I have to study but im too lazy to
I want to be with someone, but im too scared to
I want to be popular, but im unable to
I dont want to be alone, but it has been my comfort zone.

^^ All those are not me, yet they cause suffering to the body as a result of the mind. Yet that suffering aint me, so why care? Is it all about not caring anymore about anything? Because usually after a near-death experience, an individual ends up not caring about its desires & fear and actually(finally) lives life as the life it is.

Hmmm...

[schola]

Don't listen to these guru wannabes. This is why I rarely post in this forum. Too much confusion.

Trust your own self. I'm no enlightened master, but I do know with conviction that the answer is within. You're not going to find answers from anyone here, me included.