Self-developmen;A Christian perspective.

[newsbone]

Most Christians perceive self-development as sinful practice to be avoided at all costs.Being a practicing Christian, I beg to differ with this line of thinking because am convinced that the very purpose of the belief in Christ is based on personal development. We see mere un-educated anglers turn to mighty men of God (Apostle Peter), youths with no education becoming great writers (Apostle John). The Apostle Paul and Mark are the only notably educated of them all. Real Christians do not do that, am always told but my persistence in Bible study has paid of handsomely. “When I became a “real” Christian many of my more experienced, and I assume more learned, Christian friends looked askance at my involvement in self-development, labeling these things as New Age and Pagan influences. Moreover, indeed much of what passes for self-development these days is dangerously close to being just that. As a result, I abandoned the most lucrative product my firm offered, a self-development process I had authored called “The High Achiever.” In it I wrote that our Creator had given each of us potential for success beyond our wildest imagination, and it’s our responsibility to use as much of it as possible as an expression of gratitude” writes Jack Kelly a Christian self-development author. The seemingly Christian attitude of demonizing everything that we do not understand is shutting us out of the mainstream living. Jack Kelly reiterates that; The reaction of a broad spectrum of the Christian community has been to condemn these principles as tools of the devil, and because of this many believers today live pathetic defeated lives that not only don’t glorify God, but actually serve by example to turn seekers away from Him. The rejection of this portion of God’s word arises largely out of the average believer’s ignorance of the Bible due in part to the poor (in both quality and quantity) teaching many receive. Not familiar with the whole counsel of God, they assume that His principles for abundant living were actually developed by humanists or even pagans to lure them away from Him. They wrongly conclude that His promise that “I have come so that they may have life and have it abundantly” (John 10:10) refers only to the Millennium. I have personally benefited from articles of secular self-development authors in as much as we do not agree spiritually. Yes! There are various authors whose work contradict with the very essence of the purpose Christ, these I also take what I can but leave the ones am convinced is/are toxic to my faith. All self-development authors are well meaning although their might be disagreement in the approach. Here are some verses that directly encourage persuit for personal development;
Delight yourselves in Me, and I’ll give you the desires of your heart (Psalm 37:4).
Study My Word day and night and quote it often. Do everything it tells you and you will be prosperous and successful (Josh 1:8-9).
Trust in Me and stop trying to figure it out on your own. Give Me the credit and I’ll keep you on the straight and narrow. Honor Me with your wealth and your bank account will be filled to overflowing (Prov. 3:5-6, 9-10).
Give Me the 10th that’s Mine, and I’ll throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing you won’t be able to stand it (Malachi 3:9-10).
Give and it will be given to you. A good measure pressed down shaken together and running over will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured to you (Luke 6:38).
Change your attitude (Ephe. 4:23),
Practice Positive Thinking (Phil 4:8-9),
Discover the Power of Personal Goals (Phil 3:13-14),
The Power of Visualization (2 Cor 4:17-18)
And Affirmation or Self-Talk (Phil 4:4 and 13).
Rejoice in Me always. Be fearful of nothing, pray about everything, and be thankful for anything, and I will give you peace that transcends human understanding (Phil 4:4-7).
You will be made rich in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion (2 Cor 9:11).
And when you are remember Who it was that gave you the ability to attain wealth (Deut. 8:18).
This is your destiny. Achieve it and you’ll bring the greatest honor imaginable to the One Who made it so-Jack Kelly.

[Cran]

You should seek out other Christians instead of those Christians you described.

You would also loose your ideas about "most Christians who label self-development as sinful" this way.

So-called Bible-believing, fundamentalist Christians are not the "most Christians".

Educating yourself is self-development (and a "good Christian" should strive to educate himself in such areas as history and languages for understanding the bible and the bible's context), improving yourself to get rid of "sinful" behavior is development, too (like stop being slothful).

Ah, the problems being religious creates, it is truly wonderful.

[Liveformx64]

From the perspective of being raised in a strict Christian upbringing, in my opinion it would really depend on what line you take on bible interpretation.

Depending on where you fall with your convictions will greatly determine your ability to adapt and utilize said "self help" techniques, especially the ones on this site, since they are framed from perspective as a human soul being an infinitely powerful being experiencing by choice, an incarnation of limitation. This, I believe is the entire preface of Steve's work. Which of course is a direct violation of fundamental Christian discourse.

It seems to me you are of a more balanced mindset than your counterparts that are more limited in their beliefs. So I would encourage you to pray for truth every night without fail, and the truth will find you.

One last aside, I would encourage you to seek within, and think quietly on this subject, and stay away from the Hell and Brimstone people at all costs. It is exactly these fundamentalist that have destroyed the teaching of Jesus and beauty of his true message with their fearmongering, and control tactics in modern times.

I would also like to note that I no longer believe that Christ is the way out of a place of eternal punishment. Infact I don't believe such a place exists, but being raised in those teachings I understand and respect your point of view.

I am interested to hear your thoughts.

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

From the perspective of being raised in a strict Christian upbringing, in my opinion it would really depend on what line you take on bible interpretation.

My Christian line of thinking is un-religious, my ideas about Christianity is /was not influenced by any form of doctrine or dogma but by the Bible itself. I consider myself a fundamentalist because I stick to the basic teachings of Christ.

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

Depending on where you fall with your convictions will greatly determine your ability to adapt and utilize said "self help" techniques, especially the ones on this site, since they are framed from perspective as a human soul being an infinitely powerful being experiencing by choice, an incarnation of limitation. This, I believe is the entire preface of Steve's work. Which of course is a direct violation of fundamental Christian discourse.

My personal conviction is not against Steve’s work per se because, I believe his intention of turning around people’s lives by making them believe in themselves, by being focused on ability is well intended. While the preface of his work is admirable in as much we disagree on the role of the Christian belief and the purpose, origin and final destiny of the soul. The basic Christian dissertation in as much as its tenets are meant to drive people to focus on self improvement, it questions what ones quest is doing to the rest of mankind,(it checks on the effects of greed by teaching against it) in other words it makes people answerable to a deity.

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

It seems to me you are of a more balanced mindset than your counterparts that are more limited in their beliefs. So I would encourage you to pray for truth every night without fail, and the truth will find you.

Most of these stem from the erroneous teaching of trying to force humanity into Christianity, convinced that it is within the purposes of God to coerce the entire world into worshiping him and him alone. This is wrong according to the first commandment which identifies the presence of other gods. Meaning, these gods will also have their disciples and their opposing creeds, which we as believers of Christ should respect but not obey. I think that we should respect opinion however divergent, and also learn from it if does not hinder our way of life as advocates of GOD. I have found th truth and I think it is the one leading me to this.

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

One last aside, I would encourage you to seek within, and think quietly on this subject, and stay away from the Hell and Brimstone people at all costs. It is exactly these fundamentalist that have destroyed the teaching of Jesus and beauty of his true message with their fear mongering, and control tactics in modern times.

As human beings we rely on knowledge from outside us; we need to be taught in order to know things that we are otherwise ignorant about. What we have then learnt forms the basis of our opinions thus influencing our search for the truth within us. This makes the truth that we are searching for relevant to what we have been taught, influenced or personally experienced; at the end of it all it is never our truth. What remains important is that people should be free to make choices, without looking for excuses or playing the blame game while seeking to find fault in other peoples choices, modern or not.

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

I would also like to note that I no longer believe that Christ is the way out of a place of eternal punishment. Infact I don't believe such a place exists, but being raised in those teachings I understand and respect your point of view.
I am interested to hear your thoughts.

Does what you believe in; change the fact that your belief might be wrong? How has your un-belief (a place of eternal punishment) affected the way you relate to people? Do you believe that no matter what someone does it is ones right to go to heaven? (At least you have not said you don’t believe in it).

[Liveformx64]

Your beliefs on Christianity are interesting, and I must say rather unique in my experience.

I am fully prepared to accept the fact that their may be a place of eternal punishment, but In my years of debating and pondering the idea with myself I feel that there most likely isn't. Is this based on a numerical calculation, or some sort of proof? Absolutely not. It is simply based on hundred of hours of soul searching, and following my heart.

As a Christian that follows the teaching of Christ how do you negate some of the more barbaric and close minded statements in the bible?

What bible do you believe to be the "true" version of the bible?

Do you believe in a literal physical eternal hell? If yes, How do you explain the "Condition" of one must accept Christ to be saved from hell, from a God who allegedly loves us unconditionally?

You can go to heaven IF you accept christ....is that not a condition?

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

Your beliefs on Christianity are interesting, and I must say rather unique in my experience.

They were formed from my various experiences; I was born a Roman Catholic, converted to Islam, studied Jehovah’s Witness, finally I became a born again Christian. Fortunately for us in Africa we have all the kinds of faiths, cults and sects within a walking distance, some who claim to be Christians but with weird beliefs, therefore making an informed choice is not difficult.

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

.I am fully prepared to accept the fact that their may be a place of eternal punishment, but In my years of debating and pondering the idea with myself I feel that there most likely isn't. Is this based on a numerical calculation, or some sort of proof? Absolutely not. It is simply based on hundred of hours of soul searching, and following my heart.

We are a creation of God and created for a specific purpose which according to him, must be fulfilled or we lose meaning. Although I can’t specifically ascertain the form of punishment HELL stands for, am convinced that in one way or the other those who do not live up to the expected standards will be made to pay. My proof is based on the objective reading and careful study of the bible, Christian history and Church growth. I corroborate every teaching, creed, doctrine and dogma with the word of God, irrespective of who is teaching or forwarding it. I only choose to believe and obey it if it agrees with the Bible, the general Christian principals and its purposes.

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

As a Christian that follows the teaching of Christ how do you negate some of the more barbaric and close minded statements in the bible?

You have put it well ‘I follow the teachings of Christ, PERIOD’ and according to what I know none of them is barbaric. Yes! There are some very gruesome statements in the Holy book, of which fortunately (to me) none is attributed to Christ, thus has no bearing to my faith in him. The Bible as you may know was written to fulfill a specific purpose of providing people with the direction to heaven (if one believes in it), this then gives the reason for close-mindedness.

[QUOTE=Liveformx64;328063]
What bible do you believe to be the "true" version of the bible?[QUOTE]

I don’t believe in a specific Bible as true because the ones I possess are all translations, this then have given me the reason to have more than one them, in fact I have several of which I read all to come to a conclusion to what I need to know. The people who translated the different versions are not gods, which means they can make a mistake either by design or error. So I would rather have as many versions as I can to assist me come to a conclusion based on substantiation, validation and purpose of the Word of God.

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

Do you believe in a literal physical eternal hell? If yes, How do you explain the "Condition" of one must accept Christ to be saved from hell, from a God who allegedly loves us unconditionally? You can go to heaven IF you accept Christ....is that not a condition?

Where did you get the impression that God’s love is unconditional? You really need to have a rethink on that false perspective that you have been sold. God has always been restrictive to all his creation, what do you think of the laws that govern nature, the earth, the universe? If any of these laws are broken the consequences are always so severe. Look at our bodies, they obey various laws like; don’t touch an open flame, don’t step on sharp objects, etc, all these are for our own good. Most of the time the word ‘IF’ is used in the Bible, this un-fortunately is a conditional term. As humanity we live by choices and by them our life is determined, after making decisions we become subjects to our choices, thus must accept the consequence that come with them, however painful they might be.

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by newsbone

Where did you get the impression that God’s love is unconditional? You really need to have a rethink on that false perspective that you have been sold. God has always been restrictive to all his creation, what do you think of the laws that govern nature, the earth, the universe? If any of these laws are broken the consequences are always so severe. Look at our bodies, they obey various laws like; don’t touch an open flame, don’t step on sharp objects, etc, all these are for our own good. Most of the time the word ‘IF’ is used in the Bible, this un-fortunately is a conditional term. As humanity we live by choices and by them our life is determined, after making decisions we become subjects to our choices, thus must accept the consequence that come with them, however painful they might be.

There's a serious scaling issue with this, though.

If I step on a nail, I don't live with unbarable pain in my foot forever. If i touch a flame, I don't feel the pain from that flame forever. They have temporary responses, that are used for me to learn not to do those things again. It's not a one shot and your done sort of thing.

However, with what you are discussing, if I happen not to choose the correct religion out of the probably millions that are out there, I go to hell. Not only for a moment, not so I can see I made a wrong choice and change my mind, but forever, with no chance of getting out of it. So it's a guessing game with a cruel outcome. It's like an extreme version of Russian Roulette, with five bullets loaded instead of one, and we don't even get the choice whether or not we want to play.

For at least 1500 years, there was a whole side of the world no one knew about, and no one was able to preach to. How did they have any chance of all of getting to heaven?

No offense to your beliefs, of course, but that kind of comparison you were making is falacious.

[Andrew Brunelle]

Why would Christians be against self-development? Didn't Jesus preach peace and enlightenment? I'm pretty sure that the people that wrote the Bible didn't even say not to better yourself. Bettering yourself is natural and I can't see how someone could possibly see it as a sin. I don't mean to bash yor faith, but why are they so afraid of pagans? Some of the Christian rituals are taken from pagan spirituality, like putting a Christmas tree up in your home. Every faith deserves to be respected and not shunned by other faiths. There can't just be one right religion. I'm sorry. Most religions of today are mish-mashes of previous religions, so it's all relative, really.

[Liveformx64]

Originally Posted by newsbone

am convinced that in one way or the other those who do not live up to the expected standards will be made to pay. My proof is based on the objective reading and careful study of the bible, Christian history and Church growth.

So when you say one has to "Pay" for falling short of the standards issued by god, does that imply a debt? If there is indeed a debt, can it be repaid or do you think hell is eternal separation from god, like the King James implies?

I don't mean to derail your thread, but I am enjoying your input.

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

There's a serious scaling issue with this, though.

If I step on a nail, I don't live with unbearable pain in my foot forever. If i touch a flame, I don't feel the pain from that flame forever. They have temporary responses, that are used for me to learn not to do those things again. It's not a one shot and your done sort of thing..

Interesting viewpoint; do you teach your experience your kids (about pain) or you let them find out for themselves? After the temporary responses that are used to you and having learnt not to do them, is it not obvious that you warn your kids against undergoing the same experience? Where then is the problem when God who knows how it is in Hell, trying to warn his children Christians on the same?

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

However, with what you are discussing, if I happen not to choose the correct religion out of the probably millions that are out there, I go to hell. Not only for a moment, not so I can see I made a wrong choice and change my mind, but forever, with no chance of getting out of it. So it's a guessing game with a cruel outcome. It's like an extreme version of Russian Roulette, with five bullets loaded instead of one, and we don't even get the choice whether or not we want to play.
.

How many scientific origins of the world were there, more than three (if my teacher was right), how did the scientists finally agree on the Big bang as the most probable one? There are many religions out there yes; but which one of these do you believe has what you need as an individual? And are you ready to defend what you believe in? A Russian roulette? Yes! That is the limitation within which your decisions lie. You are like a table which wants to be a bed or a chair which has decided to be a car (without the assistance of the carpenter), your choices just like theirs are limited to the purpose they where made for. The trees are not complaining, they continue with life within their limitations, so does that cow/pig you are going to have for supper. Always complaining but powerless do anything about the Russian roulette they are playing.

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

For at least 1500 years, there was a whole side of the world no one knew about, and no one was able to preach to. How did they have any chance of all of getting to heaven?

No offense to your beliefs, of course, but that kind of comparison you were making is fallacious.

Inside every human being therein created the capacity for good, even to the most savage of a man there lies godliness. History has evidence of people who did good while totally ignorant of the word of God, people who questioned the injustice and worked for the good of mankind, in their ignorance they worshipped the truth. But those of us who know the truth, by that the truth we you shall be judged.

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

Why would Christians be against self-development? Didn't Jesus preach peace and enlightenment? I'm pretty sure that the people that wrote the Bible didn't even say not to better yourself. Bettering yourself is natural and I can't see how someone could possibly see it as a sin..

I believe it is because people like you have not taken your time to point out the connection of purpose within the two concepts of self development, and try to positively sell the idea to the said Christians.

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

I don't mean to bash your faith, but why are they so afraid of pagans? Some of the Christian rituals are taken from pagan spirituality, like putting a Christmas tree up in your home..

Afraid of pagans? No we are afraid of what will happen to them in the last day, because most of them are family members, friends, etc. No Christian ritual is pagan I assure you! If I manage to convert you to my faith the only thing that changes is the way you believe and what you believe in, besides that you remain who you are. No physical change takes place but just the belief. We have changed the meaning and purpose of various pagan way of life to glorify the Lord. For your information Jesus did not come with a new system of life he only corrected what he found here!

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

Every faith deserves to be respected and not shunned by other faiths. There can't just be one right religion. I'm sorry. Most religions of today are mish-mashes of previous religions, so it's all relative, really.

The Bible respects the freedom of choice including your decision to be a pagan; it is only the believers like me who do not have that privilege. Our choices are limited to the Word of God because my God practices democracy outside but inside he is a theocrat. What exactly is meant by the right religion, what makes it right and what proves it? According to me, if you recognize the weakness and limitations of your god, then you are like a piece of furniture which knows and controls the carpenter. That is how I know the true faith because my God is too mysterious for me to understand him, I only k now what he wants me to know. About religions I don’t like them at all; they are man-made, fake and very relative as you have correctly put it. Try Christianity not religion.

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

So when you say one has to "Pay" for falling short of the standards issued by god, does that imply a debt? If there is indeed a debt, can it be repaid or do you think hell is eternal separation from god, like the King James implies?

I don't mean to derail your thread, but I am enjoying your input.

I don’t want to even try and presume that I can think for God; am limited when it comes to that, the only thing I know is that unless one repents and walks in the ways of God; one will not be in good books with him. I don’t know he might even choose to forgive them, but that is a research I will not attempt.

You are very challenging; nice input

[pianoperformer]

I'm sorry, but you are making no sense.

Originally Posted by newsbone

Interesting viewpoint; do you teach your experience your kids (about pain) or you let them find out for themselves? After the temporary responses that are used to you and having learnt not to do them, is it not obvious that you warn your kids against undergoing the same experience? Where then is the problem when God who knows how it is in Hell, trying to warn his children Christians on the same?

I would tell them directly, not leave a book written by other people who claim I told them what to write. I would not leave them to guess whether or not the guidance was from me.

Originally Posted by newsbone

How many scientific origins of the world were there, more than three (if my teacher was right), how did the scientists finally agree on the Big bang as the most probable one? There are many religions out there yes; but which one of these do you believe has what you need as an individual? And are you ready to defend what you believe in? A Russian roulette? Yes! That is the limitation within which your decisions lie. You are like a table which wants to be a bed or a chair which has decided to be a car (without the assistance of the carpenter), your choices just like theirs are limited to the purpose they where made for. The trees are not complaining, they continue with life within their limitations, so does that cow/pig you are going to have for supper. Always complaining but powerless do anything about the Russian roulette they are playing.

You make no sense in this paragraph. Do you understand where I was coming from with the russian roulette comment? I can't respond to what you say, because I don't know what you are saying.

I can say I don't need to defend what I believe in, but can always be on a search for truth, living what I believe to be true.

Originally Posted by newsbone

Inside every human being therein created the capacity for good, even to the most savage of a man there lies godliness. History has evidence of people who did good while totally ignorant of the word of God, people who questioned the injustice and worked for the good of mankind, in their ignorance they worshipped the truth. But those of us who know the truth, by that the truth we you shall be judged.

Yes, there are many good people who are not Christian. But you claim they must believe in your God, regardless of if they are good or not, to enter heaven.

[Diandra25]

i believe in self - development - that is why my Spirit didnt "picked" any religion.

i now always follow my Intuition - and as long as i hear it,i will always act in accordance of my Soul.

it is a very freeing experience and feeling - imagine what is to be free everytime you find your own Truth

doesnt it say in tbe bible " and the truth shall let you free?"

that Truth for me,is not in the words like :

"Study My Word day and night and quote it often. Do everything it tells you and you will be prosperous and successful (Josh 1:8-9).
Trust in Me and stop trying to figure it out on your own. Give Me the credit and I’ll keep you on the straight and narrow. Honor Me with your wealth and your bank account will be filled to overflowing (Prov. 3:5-6, 9-10)."

What awful feeling that those words provoque in me...

answer me sth please:

do you believe in a God who is vindictave?a punishing prophessor?ONe that is just waiting for you to slip over your hear in your Path,to straight away punish you with great pains??
When you just think about what life is...doenst your Soul shows you that God is love?that you CAN INDEED pretend to think as God,cause in fact,YOU and ALL OF US,were created at his own resemblance? Dont you feel you are loved and love?Uncondicionally,by God?

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

I'm sorry, but you are making no sense.

I’m sorry too!

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

I would tell them directly, not leave a book written by other people who claim I told them what to write. I would not leave them to guess whether or not the guidance was from me.

Even when you leave the book with someone you trust, you would still need to do it yourself? You sound a very poor manager. What do you understand by the word delegation?

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

You make no sense in this paragraph. Do you understand where I was coming from with the Russian roulette comment? I can't respond to what you say, because I don't know what you are saying.

Yes you do! Yes you do! We don’t have options, in this life that we live God has only provided us with two choices; it is either him or hell. Our feelings and what we do with them notwithstanding; just like trees we have limited options, just like the cows/pigs on your dinner table complaints will not change the reality. Hiding our heads in the sand in the name of atheism, new age or any other belief will not spare you.

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

I can say I don't need to defend what I believe in, but can always be on a search for truth, living what I believe to be true.

What you want to be true can be a lie but at least it is yours!

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

Yes, there are many good people who are not Christian. But you claim they must believe in your God, regardless of if they are good or not, to enter heaven.

The age of ignorance is over because you know the truth, and by it ye shall be judged!

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by newsbone

Even when you leave the book with someone you trust, you would still need to do it yourself? You sound a very poor manager. What do you understand by the word delegation?

This is assuming I'm still alive when I'm giving this guidance, so if I left a book, presumably they could ask me if it was my book, and I could answer without ambiguity.

Originally Posted by newsbone

Yes you do! Yes you do!

I'm glad you can read my mind. You need more practice, though, as I had no clue what you were talking about.

Originally Posted by newsbone

We don’t have options, in this life that we live God has only provided us with two choices; it is either him or hell. Our feelings and what we do with them notwithstanding; just like trees we have limited options, just like the cows/pigs on your dinner table complaints will not change the reality. Hiding our heads in the sand in the name of atheism, new age or any other belief will not spare you.

We get back to the crux of the issue. No one knows that those are our only two options. You can believe so, I can believe you are wrong. Either way, if there is a god, he hasn't done a very good job of emphasizing that these are indeed our only two options. presumably for such an important decision, he would do more than leave a book that may or may not contain the truth.

I expect to hear a voice booming something like:

Originally Posted by God

Hey BTW, it's my way or the highway, so choose wisely!

No such voice has introduced itself to me yet, though, so I assume it's up to me to choose what I want to do, and there's no one who's going to punish me after death for accidentally making the wrong choice.

Originally Posted by newsbone

What you want to be true can be a lie but at least it is yours!

What if your truth is a lie? Hmm.

Originally Posted by newsbone

The age of ignorance is over because you know the truth, and by it ye shall be judged!

What makes you think I know the truth? I mean, you told me your beliefs, but in no way does that mean I think they are the truth, or should be hel dresponsible for judging whether or not they are true, especially to such a degree I can be judged by it and end up in one of two places eternally.

They're just beliefs, and I don't hold them myself. They don't impress me anymore than if a Muslim were telling me his beliefs, too. In fact I'd think him quite crazy if he thought I could tell if they were true or not after just a few minutes of talking about them.

Indeed, I'd think anyone quite crazy if they thought I could determine something to be true or not that no one will actually know until after death. It's called circumstancial evidence, and we don't have much of it. The evidence I have seen does not support your world view, but you are free to hold it, of course.

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by Diandra25

i believe in self - development - that is why my Spirit didnt "picked" any religion.
i now always follow my Intuition - and as long as i hear it,i will always act in accordance of my Soul.
it is a very freeing experience and feeling - imagine what is to be free everytime you find your own Truth

Your truth is always influenced by your emotions, how then can they be the truth? How can they also be the truth when they are subjective to knowledge that did not originate from you? Your intuition bases its perspectives and judgments from your thoughts, which originate from your mind, which retrieves information from the sub-conscious, of which is a subject to the outside world, how then do they become yours when the sub-conscious is a slave to the environment?

Originally Posted by Diandra25

doesnt it say in tbe bible " and the truth shall let you free?"
that Truth for me,is not in the words like :
"Study My Word day and night and quote it often. Do everything it tells you and you will be prosperous and successful (Josh 1:8-9).
Trust in Me and stop trying to figure it out on your own. Give Me the credit and I’ll keep you on the straight and narrow. Honor Me with your wealth and your bank account will be filled to overflowing (Prov. 3:5-6, 9-10)."
What awful feeling that those words provoque in me...
?

Where does your truth lie, because your intuition is also just a bunch of spoken words?
Even the education that you have was once just mere words. The secret lies in turning these ‘useless words’ into action.

[QUOTE=Diandra25;328750]
do you believe in a God who is vindictave?a punishing prophessor?ONe that is just waiting for you to slip over your hear in your Path,to straight away punish you with great pains??
[QUOTE]

I believe what the bible says about God; my opinion is of no consequence to his being, what I say will neither change nor influence who and what he is. The earlier I believed that the better it was for me.

[QUOTE=Diandra25;328750]
When you just think about what life is...doenst your Soul shows you that God is love?that you CAN INDEED pretend to think as God,cause in fact,YOU and ALL OF US,were created at his own resemblance? [QUOTE]
I know that God is love because I have experienced his divine love and continue to do so. Yes we are created in his image but this does not provide us with the reason to be rebellious to his tenets.

Originally Posted by Diandra25

Dont you feel you are loved and love?Uncondicionally,by God?

Have you ever loved someone unconditionally? Like not being angry when your partner cheats on you, like continuing to cherish an abusive spouse or lover. There no such a thing as unconditional love, conditions prove the existence of love and its boundaries. Why then do you expect God's love to be unconditional when your feelings are in his image?

[Diandra25]

my intuition does not come from the mind.that is why it is my truth - not originated in sth wich is exterior.

who said to you that intuition is dependable on thoughts and on mind?? i dont think so - i dont feel so either.

intuition,to me,comes from our inside´s soul - it comes from our Superior Self,and not from our Ego ( rational mind whatever..).

i can be feeling an emotion . and be feeling the Truth at the same time - its just a matter of knowing which emotion is:fear or love.If it is love,then it is indeed my own Trtuh;if not,then it isnt my deepest Truth.cause fear is the emotion that keeps me away from my own deepest Self.

The education i had were merely words yes that is why that in a moment,i picked it all up and looked closely at each tiny peace of those words.and...transformed them into what i believe today. i am not my Path,i am my Present.

and i will continuously transforming it the moment i look at sth and dont consider it to manifest my better Self anymore.

im not rebellious to God: im experiencing myself the way God would like: by being honest to myself and not a follower.

i believe GOD gave us the most wonderful gift: the power to choose. CHoose whatever we want:to do,to think,to feel,to aim for etc....that is for me,to love uncondicionally.

you are right on sth: till now i haven managed to let my Ego down the toilet ( still) and be able to love uncondicionally,being there all the time. i mean...i will love those i love now.. forever...even if they hurt me or mistreat me.
what i can and would do is CHOOSE:TO leave.but the feeling of love is always here within me. It cannot go away. andit is the way it should be...

[Liveformx64]

Originally Posted by newsbone

Your truth is always influenced by your emotions, how then can they be the truth? How can they also be the truth when they are subjective to knowledge that did not originate from you? Your intuition bases its perspectives and judgments from your thoughts, which originate from your mind, which retrieves information from the sub-conscious, of which is a subject to the outside world, how then do they become yours when the sub-conscious is a slave to the environment?

The above paragraph is based on the agreement that we are slaves to our environment. I don't believe this to be true. You are projecting your beliefs onto a majority of people who do not agree with you, and then filtering them through that criterion.

This is perhaps why you can't understand another point of view other than your own?

Originally Posted by newsbone

Have you ever loved someone unconditionally? Like not being angry when your partner cheats on you, like continuing to cherish an abusive spouse or lover. There no such a thing as unconditional love, conditions prove the existence of love and its boundaries. Why then do you expect God's love to be unconditional when your feelings are in his image?

Yes, I love myself unconditionally. I have unseated your entire belief system in one sentence.

One a serious Note: You claim to be a proponent of the Bible? Again I ask, what bible do you believe, and do you believe it word for word?

If you don't believe it word for word, do you use your intuition and "gut" to decipher the meaning? If god allows you to use your intuition do decide your beliefs, how then is it wrong for someone on the other side of the world to use their intuition from a frame of reference as someone who has never seen a bible let alone read it?

[MidasGirl]

The Truth needs no defending, newsbone. Could it be that you feel a need to defend what you consider the truth because deep in your core you doubt it, therefore need validation by creating a tribe -- that shares in your beliefs? After all, why do people go to church really if not to gain validation by feeling a part of their tribe? (and I do go to church, well, a sorta new age-ish church, and I don't even pretend it's for any other reason than to share that time with my tribesmates).


"The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is"
--Winston Churchill

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by newsbone

Have you ever loved someone unconditionally? Like not being angry when your partner cheats on you, like continuing to cherish an abusive spouse or lover. There no such a thing as unconditional love, conditions prove the existence of love and its boundaries. Why then do you expect God's love to be unconditional when your feelings are in his image?

Man created God in his own image.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by newsbone

Most Christians perceive self-development as sinful practice to be avoided at all costs.Being a practicing Christian, I beg to differ with this line of thinking because am convinced that the very purpose of the belief in Christ is based on personal development.

I couldn't agree more. But then again, fundamental christians aren't the brightest knives in the drawer, when it comes to Spiritual wisdom. But some of the best known PD teachers are openly christian. I can think of Zig Zigglar and John C. Maxwell right off the top of my head. Until the christian leaders start encouraging them to think for themselves (eg question crap that doesn't make sense to you and don't just believe because I said so), then how can anyone expect the average Christian to ever be open to personal development?

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by Diandra25

my intuition does not come from the mind.that is why it is my truth - not originated in sth wich is exterior.

who said to you that intuition is dependable on thoughts and on mind?? i dont think so - i dont feel so either.

intuition,to me,comes from our inside´s soul - it comes from our Superior Self,and not from our Ego ( rational mind whatever..).

i can be feeling an emotion . and be feeling the Truth at the same time - its just a matter of knowing which emotion is:fear or love.If it is love,then it is indeed my own Trtuh;if not,then it isnt my deepest Truth.cause fear is the emotion that keeps me away from my own deepest Self.

The education i had were merely words yes that is why that in a moment,i picked it all up and looked closely at each tiny peace of those words.and...transformed them into what i believe today. i am not my Path,i am my Present.

and i will continuously transforming it the moment i look at sth and dont consider it to manifest my better Self anymore.

im not rebellious to God: im experiencing myself the way God would like: by being honest to myself and not a follower.

i believe GOD gave us the most wonderful gift: the power to choose. CHoose whatever we want:to do,to think,to feel,to aim for etc....that is for me,to love uncondicionally.

you are right on sth: till now i haven managed to let my Ego down the toilet ( still) and be able to love uncondicionally,being there all the time. i mean...i will love those i love now.. forever...even if they hurt me or mistreat me.
what i can and would do is CHOOSE:TO leave.but the feeling of love is always here within me. It cannot go away. andit is the way it should be...

good hunting!

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

The above paragraph is based on the agreement that we are slaves to our environment. I don't believe this to be true. You are projecting your beliefs onto a majority of people who do not agree with you, and then filtering them through that criterion.
This is perhaps why you can't understand another point of view other than your own?

My environment has been influenced by belief in Christ his teachings and example. Can compare the social environment in Iran with that of the U.S.A or Canada? Are the social environments in Africa the same as where you come from? Hardly so; the new age way of thinking is still unheard of in East Africa and it would mean death in country like Iran. Now do you expect an Iranian to have the same intuition like someone in the free world? Most definitely no. His/her thoughts which form the basis of his/her intuition are manipulated by different circumstances, unique to a person living in the free world. If you want to notice how intuition changes just bring an Iranian to sample the fruits of the free world, he/she will fight it for some time but eventually give in and begin thinking and acting freely.

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

Yes, I love myself unconditionally. I have unseated your entire belief system in one sentence.

You are very lucky then;i hate it when am sick!

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

You claim to be a proponent of the Bible? Again I ask, what bible do you believe, and do you believe it word for word?

I’m a believer of the Word of God and again I read through all the translations in my possession to come up with what am convinced to be the truth; am not wrapped up in a single translation.

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

If you don't believe it word for word, do you use your intuition and "gut" to decipher the meaning? If god allows you to use your intuition do decide your beliefs, how then is it wrong for someone on the other side of the world to use their intuition from a frame of reference as someone who has never seen a bible let alone read it?

My intuition is greatly influenced by what I know and believe to be the truth according to my perspective of the word of God. It is not wrong someone to use his/her intuition in whichever circumstance one has found him/herself in. The point am trying to make is that all intuitions are influenced by our social environments and manipulated by our thoughts.

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

I'm glad you can read my mind. You need more practice, though, as I had no clue what you were talking about.

Yes you do!

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

I expect to hear a voice booming something like:
No such voice has introduced itself to me yet, though, so I assume it's up to me to choose what I want to do, and there's no one who's going to punish me after death for accidentally making the wrong choice..

Open your spiritual ears and you will hear him. But the way I make it you are not doing a good job of it.

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

What makes you think I know the truth? I mean, you told me your beliefs, but in no way does that mean I think they are the truth, or should be hel dresponsible for judging whether or not they are true, especially to such a degree I can be judged by it and end up in one of two places eternally.
.

We have discussed this before I believe!

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

They're just beliefs, and I don't hold them myself. They don't impress me anymore than if a Muslim were telling me his beliefs, too. In fact I'd think him quite crazy if he thought I could tell if they were true or not after just a few minutes of talking about them..

They are just beliefs, I thought they have been all along!

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

Indeed, I'd think anyone quite crazy if they thought I could determine something to be true or not that no one will actually know until after death. It's called circumstancial evidence, and we don't have much of it. The evidence I have seen does not support your world view, but you are free to hold it, of course.

You too!

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

The Truth needs no defending, newsbone. Could it be that you feel a need to defend what you consider the truth because deep in your core you doubt it, therefore need validation by creating a tribe -- that shares in your beliefs?

There you are again! But does everyone know that? And also MidasGirl, there is reason to validate ones truth just incase you are wronging the truth or truthing the wrong.

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

After all, why do people go to church really if not to gain validation by feeling a part of their tribe? (and I do go to church, well, a sorta new age-ish church, and I don't even pretend it's for any other reason than to share that time with my tribesmates).

There is more to going to the church than just being part of the crowd. One needs to learn and share experiences (testimonies) with other believers. More than that there is the element and chances of increasing ones knowledge of the truth, by understanding other peoples perspective of the same shared truth.

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

"The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is"
--Winston Churchill

Well put and said! Guys are you reading this truth about truth! Or is it only me.

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

I couldn't agree more. But then again, fundamental christians aren't the brightest knives in the drawer, when it comes to Spiritual wisdom.

I happen to be one of them fundamentals, never new we rank that low when it comes to spiritual wisdom. Any idea how you can assist? I hope you are not just playing the blame game, without trying to remove us from the muddle? Or do you also propagate the belief that goes ‘everybody for himself but God for us all’?

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Until the christian leaders start encouraging them to think for themselves (eg question crap that doesn't make sense to you and don't just believe because I said so), then how can anyone expect the average Christian to ever be open to personal development?

Why don’t you begin the Crusade to emancipate them, instead of shouting while hiding in the shadows?

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by newsbone

Why don’t you begin the Crusade to emancipate them, instead of shouting while hiding in the shadows?

Nah, they've chosen their path. As far as this issue is concerned, my only purpose is to observe and sometimes comment.

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Nah, they've chosen their path. As far as this issue is concerned, my only purpose is to observe and sometimes comment.

That is not fair, you are being economical with the truth! If you appreciate what Steve is doing, what dont you learn from it then do something similar? As far as i can tell you believe in good causes or am i wrong?

[joelr]

Originally Posted by newsbone

I happen to be one of them fundamentals, never new we rank that low when it comes to spiritual wisdom.

Yep. You've all misinterpreted beautiful spiritual poetry for prose. all the Christian mythology is borrowed from earlier times.