No Control

[drama07]

The body, mind has no control - period. No way can the mind control what is.

When the mind tries to influence what is in the moment - that is resisting which leads to suffering.

Let go. Let god(you) create and then witness. You can ONLY witness what you have created - not control it. What's created cannot be undone or changed. Whatever happens in reality is of your creation. The body & mind (not you) are the doer, however, YOU are not.

I came to realize this and felt like posting this. But all I AM doing is observing this happening as the body & mind types up this post Hope it makes sense.

[spacedout]

What do you mean by, "What's created cannot be undone or changed." Isn't change inevitable? The only thing that is permanent is impermanence.

[magic1]

yes .....well your ego, wants to get in there and react to this and that....and yet...true creating...comes from beyond ego...so if you want to be a masterful creator...then observe your life....but do not in anyway, allow it to rock the boat of your intentions......those things planted in the universe

Its like inside you there is a tower of knowing and your life and its events are not a reflection of whether those things are forming or not forming....

in fact...this has been a huge block for me, and I didn't even know it..........if one thing went wrong that my ego didn't like...and I would start to think, I can not have what I have requested....again, another ego based thought!....yet all the while I still knew this not to be truth....but indulged anyway...bad move!

[drama07]

Originally Posted by spacedout

What do you mean by, "What's created cannot be undone or changed." Isn't change inevitable? The only thing that is permanent is impermanence.

Of course, you can change, but the process of that change was already intended and created by your true self. Its impossible to change what's been created(manifested). Believe me

It's like your body & mind is the puppet and god(you) are the puppeteer

[SarahLuvzYu]

Originally Posted by drama07

Of course, you can change, but the process of that change was already intended and created by your true self. Its impossible to change what's been created(manifested). Believe me

It's like your body & mind is the puppet and god(you) are the puppeteer

What do you mean you can't change what has been manifested? You manifest everything, this world. You can smash a glass, there is has been changed. Ice melts to water, it has changed. I think you mean something else am I right?

Are you trying to say that everything was already planned? you said was already intended. But that is the past. We live in the now.

[Parthon]

I get it. what's currently in existence now, can't be changed in the now. It's is how it is, and anything else is resistance.

Of course, you can take action in the now to cause a change to onfold in the moment into some possible future, but that's something different.

If you have an intact glass in the now, and you intend to smash it, is it smashes yet? After you smash it, what do you have in the moment? A smashed drinking glass, or just a pile of glass shards? How do you go about smashing it? Do you take action in the now, or do you send an intention to your mind/body and then watch it unfold, feeling like you are in control?

What is, is. What is not, is not. Everything else is suffering.

[SarahLuvzYu]

Originally Posted by Parthon

I get it. what's currently in existence now, can't be changed in the now. It's is how it is, and anything else is resistance.

Of course, you can take action in the now to cause a change to onfold in the moment into some possible future, but that's something different.

If you have an intact glass in the now, and you intend to smash it, is it smashes yet? After you smash it, what do you have in the moment? A smashed drinking glass, or just a pile of glass shards? How do you go about smashing it? Do you take action in the now, or do you send an intention to your mind/body and then watch it unfold, feeling like you are in control?

What is, is. What is not, is not. Everything else is suffering.

Ah I see

[drama07]

Are you trying to say that everything was already planned? you said was already intended. But that is the past. We live in the now.

Planned? In a way, yes! . Everything was intended in the NOW beyond the mind. Read below for a better understanding... i hope

Originally Posted by Parthon

If you have an intact glass in the now, and you intend to smash it, is it smashes yet? After you smash it, what do you have in the moment? A smashed drinking glass, or just a pile of glass shards? How do you go about smashing it? Do you take action in the now, or do you send an intention to your mind/body and then watch it unfold, feeling like you are in control?

Yes, you(pure awareness) intends to smash the glass and it is smashed. However, it wasn't the mind/body that controlled the moment. The egoic mind THINKS it had control, but it did not. The smashing of glass was intended and created by you(pure awareness). All you can then do is watch it unfold.

Think it like this. The body/mind is the puppet and you(pure awareness, god, conciousness, etc.) is the puppeteer. The puppet thinks it has control ,but all this time there was a puppeteer (it doesnt know of) that was controlling the puppet. When the puppet tries to control the moment and resists the puppeteer, the puppet doesn't allow the puppeteer to create, manifest, let life flow, etc.

This is what majority of society does. They are the puppet who try to take control. All it does is create suffering. Advice to the ego: Trust in your puppeteer and everything will manifest.

It is the puppeteer that intended to smash the glass and followed up by controlling the puppet to smash the glass. All action was controlled, not by body&mind, but beyond the mind. The convincing thought that body&mind have control is simply an illusion the ego loves for you to hold on to, and why there is so much suffering.

But remember, you resisting & suffering can be the puppeteer's intention also. That is why just surrender to whatever it is in the moment. If you are in pain, surrender. If you are resisting, surrender. Just surrender! DOnt try to take control 'what is' in the moment. They were all intended and created by the puppeteer (YOU!!!!).

With practice, eventually the body/mind will stop resisting all together and automatically surrender fully to the moment. You will then experience the joy of being and enjoy life as it unfolds effortlessly. This is how life(you) is meant to be lived by the body&mind (not you!).

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by drama07

But remember, you resisting & suffering can be the puppeteer's intention also. That is why just surrender to whatever it is in the moment. If you are in pain, surrender. If you are resisting, surrender. Just surrender! DOnt try to take control 'what is' in the moment. They were all intended and created by the puppeteer (YOU!!!!).

Nice stuff! Interesting take that the puppeteer can put one self into resisting and suffering too. That also would follow about how you get out of pain or resistance - it would be the puppeteer doing that intention. And to take control of 'what is' would probably also include trying to surrender!

With practice, eventually the body/mind will stop resisting all together and automatically surrender fully to the moment. You will then experience the joy of being and enjoy life as it unfolds effortlessly. This is how life(you) is meant to be lived by the body&mind (not you!).

Are you good at this? Just wondering. It does seem we have volition as the puppet to practice surrender - but as you stated that isn't us, the intender is the puppeteer, yes? So then again, it's not our mind&body doing the practice but the real you (for lack of a better term) beyond mind of the now.

[drama07]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

And to take control of 'what is' would probably also include trying to surrender!

Trying to surrender is resistance. To surrender effortlessly is not. There is a difference b/w trying & not trying. Trying shows that you want to escape the moment (resist) in effort to feel good by surrendering. There cant be no 'trying' to surrender. It's either you do it or you don't. The middle is also resistance. Surrendering is letting go and there cant be any EFFORT in letting go, otherwise, it aint surrendering at all.

Trying to surrender is to resist and take control. Surrendering, letting go effortlessly is what I'm talking about. There is no control by body&mind. YOU just lets it be.

Are you good at this? Just wondering. It does seem we have volition as the puppet to practice surrender - but as you stated that isn't us, the intender is the puppeteer, yes? So then again, it's not our mind&body doing the practice but the real you (for lack of a better term) beyond mind of the now.

Yes, the practice of surrender was intended by the puppeteer(pure awareness, god, etc.). The intention is for the puppet(body&mind) to stop resisting and to let go of everything. The intention is to trust god (you). But all these intentions are merely trying to point to your true self (puppeteer).

How can the real 'me' be doing the practice, when the real 'me' is nothing? I believe it is the mind&body that does the practice, and when it does it will realize what the true nature is - That I believe is awakening.

Am I good at it? What is there to be good at? I am not the body&mind. Let the body&mind just be. If it is good at it, its good and if it is bad, its bad. All I do is let it be, surrender to the body&mind.

[ilrein]

The body, mind has no control - period. No way can the mind control what is.

Interesting.

When the mind tries to influence what is in the moment - that is resisting which leads to suffering.

Perhaps not phrased well, the basic point is made.

Let go. Let god(you) create and then witness. You can ONLY witness what you have created - not control it. What's created cannot be undone or changed. Whatever happens in reality is of your creation. The body & mind (not you) are the doer, however, YOU are not.

Does this mean reason is useless? It's as if your saying, and correct me if I'm wrong, that through this form, I have zero control at all. Whatever I reason, believe, and feel is irrelevant, because all these acts are an extension of influencing what is in the moment, which apparently leads to suffering.

Have you forgotten the fundamental rule of reality 101?

Perception = Reality

I don't witness what I make, I create it through observing.

[drama07]

Originally Posted by ilrein

Does this mean reason is useless? It's as if your saying, and correct me if I'm wrong, that through this form, I have zero control at all. Whatever I reason, believe, and feel is irrelevant, because all these acts are an extension of influencing what is in the moment, which apparently leads to suffering.

All reason, belief, feelings, have been intended and created, not by body&mind, but from god(you). Remember, the mind aint you, so how can you say the body/mind had control.

God(you) intended the mind to believe this, the body to feel that. The body&mind did not intend, nor cause anything. You(as in body&mind) have zero control! YOU(as in pure awareness, god, conciousness, whatever) has 100% control, but this 'YOU' is beyond the mind, so you cannot understand it.

Have you forgotten the fundamental rule of reality 101?

Perception = Reality

I don't witness what I make, I create it through observing.

Who is observing? Answer that for me.

[ilrein]

All reason, belief, feelings, have been intended and created, not by body&mind, but from god(you). Remember, the mind aint you, so how can you say the body/mind had control.

Reason, beliefs, and feelings are not created by the body/mind? I don't understand this. Are you saying I choose all my beliefs before I was born? Or that my emotions are separate from my mind/body?

As for "the mind aint you", I don't get this either. If your saying I am greater than just this form, than I agree. My mind and body is a reflection of the diverse nature of my Inner Self.

God(you) intended the mind to believe this, the body to feel that. The body&mind did not intend, nor cause anything. You(as in body&mind) have zero control! YOU(as in pure awareness, god, conciousness, whatever) has 100% control, but this 'YOU' is beyond the mind, so you cannot understand it.

Why are you so sure I can't understand what is beyond mere physical form?

I noticed what about your theory threw me off. I understand the basics of what your writing, and for the most part I agree, however certain parts don't resonate with me. For example, why is consciousness separate from the body/mind? Surely the mind and body would cease to work entirely if consciousness decided to leave it. Do you recall the a certain triangle, I can't remember what its called, but basically its: Body - Spirit - Mind.

It forms the idea that if any part in this trinity is lacking, the rest suffer, or cease to operate entirely. What you fail to realize is that there is more consciousness within you than you give credit to. For example, did you know every single cell in your body has its own consciousness? Furthermore, each of those cells is telepathically linked, aware of their part of the greater whole, working in harmony to create a complex body that would die in an hour if you had to consciously keep it operating.

Who is observing? Answer that for me.

I am.

[drama07]

Originally Posted by ilrein

Reason, beliefs, and feelings are not created by the body/mind? I don't understand this. Are you saying I choose all my beliefs before I was born? Or that my emotions are separate from my mind/body?

As for "the mind aint you", I don't get this either. If your saying I am greater than just this form, than I agree. My mind and body is a reflection of the diverse nature of my Inner Self.

There is no real reason to prove some point I have. You are not the mind, nor are you the body the mind projects. Simplicity helps because further explanation is irrelevant. It all points to one thing. You are the witness of all and that would include the mind. That is all required to know for the mind.
Isn't that inner self include the mind & body? How can there be an inner & outer self without the mind?