Personal Development for Smart People^TM Forums

spacedout · 03-21-2009, 11:45 PM

In your experience, not opinion, does the mind exist? Please just answer YES or NO. Nothing else.

If you answered YES - describe the experience. Please don't explain or describe what you think the mind is but rather describe your experience of the mind. Describing an experience is simply telling how you feel emotionally, physicallly and mentally during the experience.

Judge · 03-21-2009, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacedout

In your experience, not opinion, does the mind exist? Please just answer YES or NO. Nothing else.

If you answered YES - describe the experience. Please don't explain or describe what you think the mind is but rather describe your experience of the mind. Describing an experience is simply telling how you feel emotionally, physicallly and mentally during the experience.

Yes.

My experience of my mind is one of suffering. All existance is suffering, swaying back and forth between pleasure and pain, never happy in any mind state. Thankfully existance is a temporary state, that can be negated by complete presence.

Judge

joecooool · 03-22-2009, 01:41 AM

yes - mind to me is thoughts, and thoughts to me are like a 6th sense. just like sights, sounds, feelings, tastes, and smells arise in me(consciousness) so do thoughts.

i am conscious of them all, arising in me, existing in me, coming and going.

just like a bird may fly into and out of my conscious sight, so does a thought; fly into and out of my conscious mind.

or just like an emotion may arise in and play awhile in my conscious feelings, so a thought will arise and play awhile in my conscious mind.

i am equally aware of each thing. of it all.

BUT, my mind is a little different then my other senses, in that it creates illusionary replicas of my other sense perceptions, and can project them into/onto my other sense perceptions. like a dream world that is often trying to permeate into/onto my perceived world.

it often seems to want to project my remembered past, and my predicted future, onto my present.

spiritedwildfire · 03-22-2009, 01:54 AM

YES!!!

My experience with my mind is that it is very judgmental of myself and others. It likes to remember the past, whether it be positive or negative events. It also likes to present me with worries of what my future will be like, or what I should be doing at any given moment. Often my mind is out of control, and I have to reign it in to keep it from causing me harm. When my mind begins to race and think of things to worry about, dread, or fear than I notice my physical body begins to become tense.

My mind is sort of like a disobedient teenager.

spacedout · 03-22-2009, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judge

Yes.

My experience of my mind is one of suffering. All existance is suffering, swaying back and forth between pleasure and pain, never happy in any mind state. Thankfully existance is a temporary state, that can be negated by complete presence.

Judge

Thanks Judge for your honest and down-to-earth description of your experience of the mind. To do what you did is very difficult for most people. For many people to get in touch with their true Self and reflect on the experiences of the self is virtually impossible. You used the term "complete presence." Would you consider this the same as enlightened?

spacedout · 03-22-2009, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecooool

yes - mind to me is thoughts, and thoughts to me are like a 6th sense. just like sights, sounds, feelings, tastes, and smells arise in me(consciousness) so do thoughts.

i am conscious of them all, arising in me, existing in me, coming and going.

just like a bird may fly into and out of my conscious sight, so does a thought; fly into and out of my conscious mind.

or just like an emotion may arise in and play awhile in my conscious feelings, so a thought will arise and play awhile in my conscious mind.

i am equally aware of each thing. of it all.

BUT, my mind is a little different then my other senses, in that it creates illusionary replicas of my other sense perceptions, and can project them into/onto my other sense perceptions. like a dream world that is often trying to permeate into/onto my perceived world.

it often seems to want to project my remembered past, and my predicted future, onto my present.

Thank you for your very insightful thoughts Joecoool. You seem to be equating thoughts with the mind and that they are separate from conscious mind. Is this true? Can you explain the difference? You also mention that "I am equally aware of each thing." Can you tell me who the "I" is?

spacedout · 03-22-2009, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiritedwildfire

YES!!!

My experience with my mind is that it is very judgmental of myself and others. It likes to remember the past, whether it be positive or negative events. It also likes to present me with worries of what my future will be like, or what I should be doing at any given moment. Often my mind is out of control, and I have to reign it in to keep it from causing me harm. When my mind begins to race and think of things to worry about, dread, or fear than I notice my physical body begins to become tense.

My mind is sort of like a disobedient teenager.

This is very good spiritedwildfire. It seems as though you can easily get in touch with your feelings and emotions but I wonder if that is really what you mean by "the mind?" It sounds like what you are describing is more like the ego - "judgmental, positive, negative, should be doing" - or am I wrong?
Also, how do you "reign in" your out of control mind? What technique do you use.

Ariel Bravy · 03-22-2009, 03:23 AM

Yes.

Here I am, everpresent and eternal, and here is the mind. Thoughts arise from nothingness and, like soap bubbles, just *pop* back into the void of nothingness from which they arose.

Thoughts pass through the transparency of awareness that I am.

There is no one who thinks, yet thought can still be directed, despite the fact that there's strangely no one at the wheel. This driver-less deliberate thought can be called intention.

Even when thinkingness happens, when there is no self who thinks, there is no self to suffer. There can be the experience of suffering by resisting and clinging to thought that arises as if there's literally someone here to suffer, but this whole experience happens to no one.

Judge · 03-22-2009, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacedout

You used the term "complete presence." Would you consider this the same as enlightened?

Merely words to point to it.

You will never be enlightened, awakened or god.

You don't become what you are.

You are human, but now you are god, aware, conscious?

How alien is that.

You are now.

What is else there.

Judge

spacedout · 03-22-2009, 04:47 PM

YES

Breathing - breath in and out. Feeling presence - the energy in the body.
Sounds of music, an airplane, of breathing, typing. Feeling at ease and calm - peaceful. Lights and shadows - colors bright and clear. A knowing of spaceousness and vastness beyond the present location. No self, no body, no name - one with everything. Waves of energy coming and going.

Eternas · 03-22-2009, 06:20 PM

Wow..This is such a wildly broad topic.It would take books, sages, experience with divinity etc..But you have a wonderful sense of curiosity.

joecooool · 03-22-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacedout

Thank you for your very insightful thoughts Joecoool. You seem to be equating thoughts with the mind and that they are separate from conscious mind. Is this true? Can you explain the difference? You also mention that "I am equally aware of each thing." Can you tell me who the "I" is?

yes, i consider mind to be thoughts(and not brain or consciousness). i dont use the term 'conscious mind', i just use consciousness; which i consider synonymous with the i, with the true me.

so i dont have a conscious mind, but i am conscious of mind.

as i am conscious of all my reality(5 'sense' perceptions, and thoughts) as it plays out according to its destiny.

destiny as in nothing can change how its going to play out, which doesnt matter as i cant change it anyway, because i am not an active participant, i am but the consciousness, observing it all.

but of course it is my mind that speaks now. and so normally my mind would speak of itself as i. but my mind has also come to the realization that it is but part of a larger deterministic reality playing out in a even larger conscious entity.

spacedout · 03-23-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecooool

yes, i consider mind to be thoughts(and not brain or consciousness). i dont use the term 'conscious mind', i just use consciousness; which i consider synonymous with the i, with the true me.

so i dont have a conscious mind, but i am conscious of mind.

as i am conscious of all my reality(5 'sense' perceptions, and thoughts) as it plays out according to its destiny.

destiny as in nothing can change how its going to play out, which doesnt matter as i cant change it anyway, because i am not an active participant, i am but the consciousness, observing it all.

but of course it is my mind that speaks now. and so normally my mind would speak of itself as i. but my mind has also come to the realization that it is but part of a larger deterministic reality playing out in a even larger conscious entity.

You say, "I am conscious of mind." My question is, who is "I" and where does it exist? Since the "I' is conscous of the mind it can be neither the consciousness nor the mind. Who or what is "I"? This is not intended to be confrontational but merely a question for deep contemplation.

joecooool · 03-23-2009, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacedout

You say, "I am conscious of mind." My question is, who is "I" and where does it exist? Since the "I' is conscous of the mind it can be neither the consciousness nor the mind. Who or what is "I"? This is not intended to be confrontational but merely a question for deep contemplation.

perhaps i was wrong

perhaps the self is actually undefinable

like allan watts said: trying to define yourself is like trying to bite your own teeth.

i think it is only reality that knows my proper definition.

because mind is a subset of self, and so logically it cant fully know the self. it only forms a little flawed holistic model of the perceived self in itself.

which basically means self not properly knowable. or only a omniscient being could properly know my definition.

so perhaps it is a trick question. who am i? designed to quiet the mind. designed so the mind can realize its limits.

and by choosing consciousness as self all i did was choose my most favorite important thing about my undefinable self.

so perhaps the way to know the self is not to define the self with the mind, but to simply use that deep sense of i that we all have and leave it at that.

meditation being superior to philosophy in the discover of self

Ariel Bravy · 03-23-2009, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecooool

so perhaps it is a trick question. who am i? designed to quiet the mind. designed so the mind can realize its limits.

Bingo. It's not designed to give you an answer, but ultimately dissolve all answers and dissolve even the one asking the question. Those who still have an answer to that question haven't yet realized This.

Pyper900 · 03-23-2009, 07:52 PM

To answer this quetion is to violate the term of the question, for in the answer one must refer to themselves in the first person, effectively describing their mind in one word, "my". The broader question becomes, who is "my".

spacedout · 03-23-2009, 09:25 PM

It seems as though we have come to a conclusion that we are not the self nor the mind. After some research on the subject "I" came up with this quote from Nisargadatta Maharaj which, which says it all. "Wisdom lies in never forgetting the self as the ever-present source of both the experiencer and his experience." So, the mind is the experience of each individual. Therefore, the mind can not be defined but only experienced. Do you agree or disagree?
And why or why not?

ComplicatedSimplicity · 03-23-2009, 10:24 PM

YES!!!!!!!!

Its our soul

spacedout · 03-23-2009, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComplicatedSimplicity

YES!!!!!!!!

Its our soul

Concur with that.

spacedout · 03-29-2009, 01:42 AM

Is there anybody else who would like to describe their experience of the mind?
I'm trying to compile some data and see what the common elements are in the various experiences. With that information, maybe I can determine the characteristics of the mind. This is just a little experiment having to do

with the experiential method.

song star · 03-26-2011, 11:02 PM

mind appears to be somthing in my experiance none other than creation itself that in which people call mind as in thoughts is actually ego. the mind situated within the heart is the very essence of unlimited power and awareness. that is the true mind. the ocean of endless information about everyting in one go. to get there requires an extremly talented individual who has reached a certian level that is the understanding and direct perception that you are the centre of your universe and that everything flowing from that centre is everything around you. you are not and never will be ego in fact the role of ego is to transform from the fact that it is part of the ego. generated by the past. yet try not to slice and dice different parts ofyurself saying that this is mind, thoughts, you, me this that heart body or otherwise. there is no limit to the self and that self is whole eternally infinate. everybody has to work with limited knoledge as in no-ledge to sit on. its just a matter of using everthing youve been given that particular day-listen to the lowest of lows everything will like timeitself flex back and inrich the flow and experiance of the universal being people sometmes call god. x

Justin Mazza · 03-27-2011, 03:45 AM

The mind is a trip.

ChrisGinsburg · 03-27-2011, 08:02 AM

The mind is merely the universe realizing itself. The mind that most of us identify with as "us" or our personality does not in fact exist.

Maguru · 03-28-2011, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacedout

Is there anybody else who would like to describe their experience of the mind?
I'm trying to compile some data and see what the common elements are in the various experiences. With that information, maybe I can determine the characteristics of the mind. This is just a little experiment having to do

with the experiential method.

I find that my thinking is in direct relationship to what I am feeling. Positive feelings = positive thoughts and the same with negatives.

Mud · 03-28-2011, 01:07 AM

No.

nicbrahms · 03-28-2011, 10:43 AM

yes mind exists.

In my experience it is that noisey, continuous chatter that ensues whilst the divinity within observes it.

Philemon · 03-28-2011, 06:57 PM

Yes! mind is my food, mostly. another part of it makes decisions.

Anthony1973 · 03-28-2011, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacedout

In your experience, not opinion, does the mind exist? Please just answer YES or NO. Nothing else.

If you answered YES - describe the experience. Please don't explain or describe what you think the mind is but rather describe your experience of the mind. Describing an experience is simply telling how you feel emotionally, physicallly and mentally during the experience.

The mind is stubborn, arrogant, unforgiving and selfish. It feels like an uncomfortable suit jacket, one that is tight under the arms restricting movement, itchy too. It is a conceptual prison.

Presence sets you free

03-21-2009, 11:45 PM	#1 (permalink)
spacedout Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North central Florida Posts: 889	Survey on the mind In your experience, not opinion, does the mind exist? Please just answer YES or NO. Nothing else. If you answered YES - describe the experience. Please don't explain or describe what you think the mind is but rather describe your experience of the mind. Describing an experience is simply telling how you feel emotionally, physicallly and mentally during the experience.

03-22-2009, 01:41 AM	#3 (permalink)
joecooool Banned Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 185	yes - mind to me is thoughts, and thoughts to me are like a 6th sense. just like sights, sounds, feelings, tastes, and smells arise in me(consciousness) so do thoughts. i am conscious of them all, arising in me, existing in me, coming and going. just like a bird may fly into and out of my conscious sight, so does a thought; fly into and out of my conscious mind. or just like an emotion may arise in and play awhile in my conscious feelings, so a thought will arise and play awhile in my conscious mind. i am equally aware of each thing. of it all. BUT, my mind is a little different then my other senses, in that it creates illusionary replicas of my other sense perceptions, and can project them into/onto my other sense perceptions. like a dream world that is often trying to permeate into/onto my perceived world. it often seems to want to project my remembered past, and my predicted future, onto my present. Last edited by joecooool; 03-22-2009 at 01:52 AM.

03-22-2009, 03:23 AM	#8 (permalink)
Ariel Bravy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 200	Yes. Here I am, everpresent and eternal, and here is the mind. Thoughts arise from nothingness and, like soap bubbles, just pop back into the void of nothingness from which they arose. Thoughts pass through the transparency of awareness that I am. There is no one who thinks, yet thought can still be directed, despite the fact that there's strangely no one at the wheel. This driver-less deliberate thought can be called intention. Even when thinkingness happens, when there is no self who thinks, there is no self to suffer. There can be the experience of suffering by resisting and clinging to thought that arises as if there's literally someone here to suffer, but this whole experience happens to no one. Last edited by Ariel Bravy; 03-22-2009 at 05:06 AM.

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03-22-2009, 01:54 AM	#4 (permalink)
spiritedwildfire Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 16	YES!!! My experience with my mind is that it is very judgmental of myself and others. It likes to remember the past, whether it be positive or negative events. It also likes to present me with worries of what my future will be like, or what I should be doing at any given moment. Often my mind is out of control, and I have to reign it in to keep it from causing me harm. When my mind begins to race and think of things to worry about, dread, or fear than I notice my physical body begins to become tense. My mind is sort of like a disobedient teenager.

03-22-2009, 04:47 PM	#10 (permalink)
spacedout Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North central Florida Posts: 889	YES Breathing - breath in and out. Feeling presence - the energy in the body. Sounds of music, an airplane, of breathing, typing. Feeling at ease and calm - peaceful. Lights and shadows - colors bright and clear. A knowing of spaceousness and vastness beyond the present location. No self, no body, no name - one with everything. Waves of energy coming and going.

03-22-2009, 06:20 PM	#11 (permalink)
Eternas Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shanghai Posts: 25	Wow..This is such a wildly broad topic.It would take books, sages, experience with divinity etc..But you have a wonderful sense of curiosity.

03-23-2009, 07:52 PM	#16 (permalink)
Pyper900 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 139	To answer this quetion is to violate the term of the question, for in the answer one must refer to themselves in the first person, effectively describing their mind in one word, "my". The broader question becomes, who is "my".

03-23-2009, 09:25 PM	#17 (permalink)
spacedout Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North central Florida Posts: 889	It seems as though we have come to a conclusion that we are not the self nor the mind. After some research on the subject "I" came up with this quote from Nisargadatta Maharaj which, which says it all. "Wisdom lies in never forgetting the self as the ever-present source of both the experiencer and his experience." So, the mind is the experience of each individual. Therefore, the mind can not be defined but only experienced. Do you agree or disagree? And why or why not?

03-23-2009, 10:24 PM	#18 (permalink)
ComplicatedSimplicity Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: UK Posts: 117	YES!!!!!!!! Its our soul

03-29-2009, 01:42 AM	#20 (permalink)
spacedout Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North central Florida Posts: 889	Is there anybody else who would like to describe their experience of the mind? I'm trying to compile some data and see what the common elements are in the various experiences. With that information, maybe I can determine the characteristics of the mind. This is just a little experiment having to do with the experiential method.

03-26-2011, 11:02 PM	#21 (permalink)
song star Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2	mind appears to be somthing in my experiance none other than creation itself that in which people call mind as in thoughts is actually ego. the mind situated within the heart is the very essence of unlimited power and awareness. that is the true mind. the ocean of endless information about everyting in one go. to get there requires an extremly talented individual who has reached a certian level that is the understanding and direct perception that you are the centre of your universe and that everything flowing from that centre is everything around you. you are not and never will be ego in fact the role of ego is to transform from the fact that it is part of the ego. generated by the past. yet try not to slice and dice different parts ofyurself saying that this is mind, thoughts, you, me this that heart body or otherwise. there is no limit to the self and that self is whole eternally infinate. everybody has to work with limited knoledge as in no-ledge to sit on. its just a matter of using everthing youve been given that particular day-listen to the lowest of lows everything will like timeitself flex back and inrich the flow and experiance of the universal being people sometmes call god. x

03-27-2011, 03:45 AM	#22 (permalink)
Justin Mazza Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Monkton, Maryland Posts: 262	The mind is a trip.

03-27-2011, 08:02 AM	#23 (permalink)
ChrisGinsburg Family Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 2,700	The mind is merely the universe realizing itself. The mind that most of us identify with as "us" or our personality does not in fact exist.

03-28-2011, 01:07 AM	#25 (permalink)
Mud Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 106	No.

03-28-2011, 10:43 AM	#26 (permalink)
nicbrahms Banned Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: uk Posts: 3,233	yes mind exists. In my experience it is that noisey, continuous chatter that ensues whilst the divinity within observes it.

03-28-2011, 06:57 PM	#27 (permalink)
Philemon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: ohio Posts: 345	Yes! mind is my food, mostly. another part of it makes decisions.

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