The Fourth Way

[aphorist]

Here we go, I don't know how many people are familiar with the fourth way, but I'd like to see what people think.

Fourth Way - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Fourth Way is basically a belief system that came about in the early 20th century which starts with the statement, all men are machines. Basically, nobody controls themselves and therefore they don't control what they do. Outside influences create our mindset, and so our mind isn't our own. Furthermore, we all have a multitude of "I"s in our heads which contradict each other, so, for example, one night we set an alarm thinking I want to get up early and the next morning we hit the snooze button saying I don't want to get up early this morning. It states that a unified "I" only comes through control of the physical, emotional, and thinking areas of the body, which are totally separate and sometimes try to wrongly do the job of the others.

This is set up on the statement that people are all asleep. Nobody knows themselves and nobody controls their actions. We are all asleep, being controlled by other forces unless we "self-remember" and realize what we are doing. Only through intense trials of realizing who we are can we stop lying and start seeing objective knowledge. Until we are able to control ourselves through waking up, we are unable to do anything because everything we try isn't controlled by a singular "I".

Then it gets a little out there for me. It talks about universal energy stages and their knowledge based on an octave scale. But this part is more on the "objective knowledge" than on the system for reaching higher consciousness.

In any case, the books on it are very interesting and make you think. Do I control myself or are there multiple "I"s which take over at accidental intervals? Can I actually do what I want without negative effects, and will absolution of my "I" allow me to more effectively do what I want to do? Can I control what I think, feel emotionally, and sensually?

Of course it's hard to explain in a short post without butchering the logic behind it, but does anyone know anything about the fourth way, or have any thoughts on it?

[magi13]

Does he really mention that men are machines and they don't have control over themselves?

I thought his teachings were more on focus and concentration. Critical thinking, responsibility, work and others?

[shalom]

Hello aphorist..I studied the Fourth Way, the teachings of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky, many years ago in Australia and was associated with the ( as it was then considered to be) movement for over 3 years.

At the time, it had a formality and discipline I found hard to take when in my 20's. I also found the intellectual side of the teachings baffling and struggled to come to grips with the concepts contained within.

In very broad terms as I understood it, the overall purpose of the teachings is the evolutionary elevation of the human species. Being asleep is like being unaware, "un-conscious".

According to my understanding, man is a sleeping automaton governed by his impulses, habits (as you suggested).

Until we are able to exert understanding of the machine (us -man) through purposeful work on ourselves to wake us from this evolutionary slumber, we are doomed as a species to be degraded and thus engage in species-destructive behaviour.

The "work" to awaken is achieved through a number of methods, physical ( including Sufi meditative dances), intellectual ( readings of the texts) and emotional, using the self-remembering to which you referred.

Self-remembering is another way of expressing the idea of "being in the moment", meditation of a sort. In trying to self-remember, it was important not to "identify" with the insights, rather consider oneself as an observer of oneself - if that makes any sense ?

I think the Fourth Way is just another way of trying to achieve what we joined this site for - conscious awareness, mastery etc etc but with highly prescribed, very disciplined methods.

On a lighter note, I remember one of the exercises was drinking large quantities of arak - a kind of anise-based spirit, like Ouzo and applying self-remembering then !

While I haven't been interested to follow the movement recently, I know that several groups exist in London and probably also in Europe and the US.

Hope that helps...

[aphorist]

Cool Shalom, thanks for the insights. The thing that interested me most is the idea that there's a definite transition to where you feel awake and you notice that everyone around you is asleep.

And to Magi, yup. He says we're unconsious asleep beings who don't know what we're doing and can't control what we're doing because we merely follow our impulses and habits (which are either adopted through immitation or given to us from other machines). You can think about it this way, can you control what your emotions and thoughts and physical habits are? Are they all in-line with one another and cohesive? If your mind fights with your emotions, and if your moments aren't deliberate, why is this if you're a singular entity?

[magi13]

Originally Posted by aphorist

Cool Shalom, thanks for the insights. The thing that interested me most is the idea that there's a definite transition to where you feel awake and you notice that everyone around you is asleep.

And to Magi, yup. He says we're unconsious asleep beings who don't know what we're doing and can't control what we're doing because we merely follow our impulses and habits (which are either adopted through immitation or given to us from other machines).

i agree, man is a creature of habit.

You can think about it this way, can you control what your emotions and thoughts and physical habits are? Are they all in-line with one another and cohesive? If your mind fights with your emotions, and if your moments aren't deliberate, why is this if you're a singular entity?

to a certain degree i can control my physical habits and emotions. there is a balance between my physical habits and emotions, but their are times that they don't agree with each other.

ex. when i feel i feel hungry.

all i know is that my body has needs and they need to be upkeeped.

my mind doesn't fight with my emotions, they tend to work hand in hand with each other.



maybe it's because i have training in this department. but i also find his teachings interesting