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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 07:09 PM
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Radical, what could you possibly think you would accomplish by blatently claiming Chrstianity is rubbish and crazy. I mean you could say that about all religion, there will be evidence somewhere I am sure. You have to understand the Christianity most see today is a warped version of its orgininal form. It was warped and changed to suit the Changer. I am not Christian you understand, but I like to expell ignorance on this matter because I can.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 07:10 PM
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Personally, I don't think the problem with Christianity is to be found in the Bible - it is to be found in the many faulty interpretations of the text.

Just my 2c.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 07:17 PM
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Will Edwards chooses his words with wisdom.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Megan View Post
Great quote, Radical. Dawkins is amazing, and has probably helped a lot of people get out of abusive religious situations. Wish I could have borrowed some of his backbone in my day.

His confrontation with (later to be disgraced) Ted Haggard, head of 30 million American Evangelicals, in "Root of All Evil" is just incredible, isn't it?

YouTube - Ted Haggard in "Root of All Evil?"
Yes, Dawkins is one of my heroes. I believe he is doing science a great service and I highly recommend his book The God Delusion to anyone who hasn't read it.

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I'm speaking of evolution itself, not the theory of evolution. I believe religion is part of the evolutionary process. How could it not be?

If the religious impulse is evolutionary in nature, could we not expect it to evolve as well?
I believe religion is a misfiring byproduct of evolution, whilst the religious ideas themselves are evolutionary in nature - they serve no purpose other than their own propagation and survival. With the help of people like Richard Dawkins, religion will become obsolete.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Will Edwards View Post
Personally, I don't think the problem with Christianity is to be found in the Bible - it is to be found in the many faulty interpretations of the text.

Just my 2c.
What criterion I wonder do you use to decide what parts of the Bible to take literally? - other than your own discretion? All interpretations are faulty because the text is nothing more than a faulty mish-mash of contradictory nonsense. It makes an interesting work of fiction, but should in no way be taught to children as a moral standard.
Last edited by Radical : 01-08-2007 at 07:42 PM.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 07:29 PM
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Akashic Librarian has intelligent things to say about the subject. I do not disagree with one thing. Not all men are stupid. Intelligence is the ability to learn. Stupidity is hendering your own ability to learn. Subjective realism is stupid in this way. Through questions of everything, there are no answers. They ask me a question and I give them an answer. Because of my intelligence I will be painted into no corner. When I give an answer that they do not agree with, the subjective realist only changes the subject and asks a different question. By the time we have realized we have gotten nowhere, we are talking about something entirely different than we started. Subjective realists question the followers of religions so much that they blame the man that began it. The funny thing is that the teacher does not come around to object to the followers' ways. The men of other religions have died off, so they do not object, but my God loves us enough to give us our choices.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 07:32 PM
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If anyone would like to ask me a question to test the faultyness of subjective realism, please direct it specifically to me. Please only ask a few questions at a time. It is difficult to answer them all in one sitting. I am only a man.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 07:37 PM
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I take every bit of the bible literally. It may seem that one does not have a choice with God, but the over all theme of the Good Book is your choice. Your choice no matter what story is to choose God or choose death. Plain and simple. If a man is afraid to understand the bible without doubt, then he will never understand. But if a man realeases his doubt, then he will understand the bible. A belief is something you find true no matter what evidence is brought against it. All evidence against the bible has no rock beneath it.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 07:41 PM
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If anyone would like to ask me a question to test the faultyness of subjective realism, please direct it specifically to me. Please only ask a few questions at a time. It is difficult to answer them all in one sitting. I am only a man.
Please stop hijacking my thread with your ramblings about subjective realism. You keep spurting out religious fanaticism, whereas I want an intelligent debate. You haven't contributed one bit of rational argument to this discussion.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 07:41 PM
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Why do men fear faith so much that they choose death? Men fear everything then, because they fear death as well. I am not afraid of death. It is only how I die that I fear. I must have faith that He will not let me suffer. If you do not know where you go when you die, then you fear death. I know where I am going, so I do not fear it.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 07:45 PM
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I am sorry I have offended you from Jesus, Radical. I ask you to please not lash out at me. I have meant no fault. I am only interested in the truth. If you find no truth in my words and wish me to leave, then I have no right to continue this.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Joshiepoo3000 View Post
I take every bit of the bible literally.
Every bit? So you advocate all of god's law? Murder apostates? Stone those who blaspheme? Kill your children if (when) they backtalk? If someone comes to your door and wants to boof your guest, it's better to send out your virgin daughters for boofing?

"Every bit", you said! There are quite a few naughty bits.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 07:59 PM
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Do not get the law of the Old Testament and the New Testament confused. Before the Word was born, God's chosen had the law. They did not have the Word in their hearts and minds, but only in the good book. With the Word in your heart and mind, you cannot get confused. The Father was strict with his people, because without the book they would stray. The Father said to choose Him or death. When the Word was born and then accepted into men's hearts and minds they were given the truth in them. If Jesus is in them, they do not need the book to hear the truth. Jesus said not to fear. I do not fear, because I cannot be confused. I cannot be confused, because He is in me. To have Jesus in you is to know Him. A man can be saved by Him and not know Him. If you do not know Him, then you do not know the truth. The people before Jesus' life on earth did not know Him, so they did not know the truth. Moses heard the Word speak to him, so he wrote it down, but he did not know Him, because the Word was not within him.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 08:04 PM
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Radical is right. Joshiepoo3000 you are hijacking this thread and I think you are verging on Preaching Lets keep it nice I know you are doing now...some more than others....hmm Radical. Lets not get nasty, we are all intelligent peopleand we can debate this Intelligently.

Joshiepoo3000 can you please clarify for me what you mean by Subjective Realism?


And Radical you can't expect an intelligent conversation when you start off the topic by claiming Christians are crazy...get some sense man!


Oh and on the subject of my Signiture if you want to question it then you can start a new topic. I won't take up someone elses topic for it.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 08:04 PM
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Radical, let me ask you a quick question. Do you feel that there are no good reasons to believe in religion?

But, before you answer that question, please state your definition of religion. Do faiths such as Buddhism and Taoism count to you as religion?
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Joshiepoo3000 View Post
Moses heard the Word speak to him, so he wrote it down, but he did not know Him, because the Word was not within him.
So you'e saying Moses wrote it down wrong? But you said "every bit." Where in the bible does it say, "oh by the way, Moses wrote it down wrong sometime back, let's get that straight."

According to your brethren, the bible is the infallible word of god. But these laws are in the bible! With no qualifications anywhere about how "oops, pay no attention to the moses behind the curtain."

p.s. sending your daughters out to get repeatedly boned in the butt in order to save your guest, whom you claim is an angel, has nothing to do with Moses. similar events happen more than once in the bible.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 08:10 PM
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Radical, let me ask you a quick question. Do you feel that there are no good reasons to believe in religion?

But, before you answer that question, please state your definition of religion. Do faiths such as Buddhism and Taoism count to you as religion?
Lets get something clear. I am only referring to religions with a belief in a supernatural deity/personal god.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 08:12 PM
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Exclamation Killed any witches lately?
I mean that kindly, Joshiepoo, but you did say, "I take every bit of the bible literally."

Quote:
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
--Exodus 22:18
But, I see you just explained yourself. But now, after explaining yourself, you don't take every bit literally, do you? In fact, now you don't even need the Book to hear the truth.

But don't get me wrong, I understand your last post perfectly. And, though you may not believe it, I'm a fellow believer, even though I don't believe the actual historical existence of Jesus can be proved.

Radical, I think you should expect religious apologists to come on a thread like this, and do what apologists do, no? You want them to sit on their hands? Hmmm?
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Last edited by Megan : 01-08-2007 at 08:24 PM.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 08:21 PM
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If anyone would like to ask me a question to test the faultyness of subjective realism, please direct it specifically to me. Please only ask a few questions at a time. It is difficult to answer them all in one sitting. I am only a man.
We don't need to ask you any questions about subjective realism because your posts prove that subjectivity exists. You may believe what you write whole-heartedly but most of us reading your posts would agree you're delusional. How is that not subjective?

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Originally Posted by Joshiepoo3000 View Post
Subjective realism is stupid in this way. Through questions of everything, there are no answers. They ask me a question and I give them an answer. Because of my intelligence I will be painted into no corner. When I give an answer that they do not agree with, the subjective realist only changes the subject and asks a different question.
There are answers out there but it's not as cut-and-dry, black-and-white as many religions would have you believe. There are a thousands shades of gray when it comes to our existence and anyone that claims to have absolute answers after reading a religious text is lost in their own subjective reality.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 08:43 PM
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And Radical you can't expect an intelligent conversation when you start off the topic by claiming Christians are crazy...get some sense man!
I'm not calling anyone crazy. My post simply pointed out the sheer absurdity of the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ. A fundamental premise in Christianity.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 08:48 PM
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I see that some have made their choice no to believe. I write this only so that others that have not made their choice see the fault in your excessive skepticism. I value Meagans words. I am saying there is a difference between reading the bible and having the bible in you. I have the bible in me. Moses did not have the bible in him. He had to read it. Jesus is the Word and the Word is the bible. To have Jesus in you is not to have Him memorized, but to know Him. I know Him. I don't memorize Him, because He continues to speak to me. Moses had to memorize the Word that was spoken at the burning bush. Moses was not wrong, because wrong is evil. Evil is decreasing the value of a human being. In no way did Moses do this by writing down the Word's words. All I am saying is that Jesus was born to save us and let everyone know the truth.

Lot never literally said for the men to have sex with them. This is beside the point. You are talking about Genesis, which happened before Moses talked to the burning bush, and also before Deuteronomy. I do not understand the connection between Lot and Moses that you are talking about. Can you clarify? Forgive me for not understanding.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 08:50 PM
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To not recognize absurdity IS crazy.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 08:52 PM
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To not recognize absurdity IS crazy.
It is indeed.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 09:22 PM
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Moses was not wrong, because wrong is evil. Evil is decreasing the value of a human being.
Comments of this ilk are what rankles, in a nutshell. The underlying message: "You are wrong (not to believe in god) and therefore evil, and therefore your value as a human being is less than mine." Joshiepoo, perhaps you don't mean to convey that, but it sure is a message that believers browbeat nonbelievers with. Joshiepoo, pardon my bluntness, but your communication style feels like browbeating to me.

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I do not understand the connection between Lot and Moses that you are talking about. Can you clarify? Forgive me for not understanding.
The connection beween Lot and Moses (and the Laws and the story of the concubine that gets sent out in lieu of traveler and gets herself boofed to death) is that these are all IN THE BIBLE which you stated you took literally, every bit. The bible emphatically implies that Lot did the right thing by offering up his daughters out in order to save the angels, and the bible nowhere indicates anything to refute that. Also, the bible nowhere states that you shouldn't take Moses's laws literally for any reason. (Lot's daughters mercifully survived and were able to later have sex with Lot, but the traveler's concubine was not so lucky. Boofed to death.)

My point is: if you say you take every bit of the bible literally, and consider yourself to live by its word, then you are in favor of killing children, sacrificing your daughters' lives (and orifices!) for strangers', and stoning to death anyone who rejects belief in christian god. If you try to have it both ways, "it's literal AND it's subject to interpretation," your argument is too slippery to take into serious consideration and, I believe, is subject to being ridiculed. If you take the point of view that it's all literal, then you're either a hypocrite or a psychopath, and if you tell me it's all subject to interpretation, then you beg the question: WHOSE?

My point is