Initiation of the dead
I guess many of you have read the book "The Four Agreements" - by Don Miguel Ruiz.
Here's a short summary:
I'm very interested in the third option - the one called "initiation of the dead" .. anyone tried it? what is it? Do anyone have some specific information on what this might be? :)
Toltec Initiation of Death
I studied with Miguel Ruiz for many years. The initiation of death doesn’t translate well into words. One analogy is that if your mind were a computer, it is equivalent to erasing the hard drive.
You wipe clean from your mind any previous agreements, thoughts, internal dialogue, and emotions from the past. You start over with no baggage from the past.
The initiation is generally created in a ceremony and takes some practice for a person to focus their attention and detach themelves as conscious awareness from all their ego identity. (parasite) I was working with Miguel pretty intensely for a year before I made one of these in a real profound way leaps. My previous attempts during that year resulted in tremendous growth but not to the same degree of transformation. When you make one of these leaps there is an incredible expansion of consciousness. Emotionally this is often felt as love and bliss.
It is the fastest way I know to make changes in your mind, emotions, beliefs, and perception of the world. The initiation of death ceremony would generally take place on his power journeys (spiritual journeys) I now take people on such journeys and lead participants through the process.
Very interesting topic! I'm posting to get myself subscribed. :)
Thanks for answering Gary,
I understand that this is not something one could undertake alone (without a guide like Miguel Ruiz himself).
A bit disappointing really. It sounds very interesting, but it's too bad if there doesn't exist a kind of "recipe" that can be shared.
Mayo - who said I was looking for a quick recipe? I said I was looking for a recipe, it doesn't have to be a quick one .. although a 15-minute life changing experience would be great!! ;)
I've experienced a bit with lucid dreaming and find it very interesting. I've managed to have one such lucid experience, where I was chased by a lion but realized I could stop and didn't have to be afraid since it was only a dream.
.. so that's something I'd like to do more of :)
nice analogy with the magazines btw!
Interesting topic, parallels those of other spiritual disciplines as well.
1) would be equivalent to removing attachments one by one, 2) is equivalent to removing the energy / juice powering those attachments by focusing attention away from the mind/ego and onto witness/awareness/ the "I am" thought, and 3) is equivalent to transcending the ego identity altogether (did I get them right?)
I'm also curious to what the "recipe" to 3) would be, since I didn't know there was a systematic way about it, thought it just came by itself in one of those satori moments during meditation or something.
Deepak Chopra's new Book
I would highly recommend Deepak Chopra's new book entitled "Life After Death: The Book of Answers." This offers insight into the topic of discussion in this thread.:)
This isn't about conceptual ideas
You can't learn about such a process from a book. Just as you can't learn about swimming from a book. You can't learn how to dance by having someone tell you about the experience. When you take the journey into the Infinite you leave all the knowledge of the mind far behind.
All that knowledge that people read is like looking at a map and thinking you know the way to Divine Consciousness. People sit around and read books yet the don't take the steps to leave their house.
Enlightened masters talk about silent transmission of energy/understanding, certain high-powered spiritual texts actually carry that "stamp" of higher consciousness in them, so reading certain books actually raise your consciousness level (i.e. "Power vs. Force", bhagavad gita, bible, etc.). It's kind of like brain-wave entrainment, but consciousness level entrainment? :p
Understanding a concept intellectually helps pave the way for experiential awareness, so don't throw all your books away :) just remember that most of the benefit actually comes from the spiritual consciousness / m-field transmission and not the words themselves, so it is best to seek confirmed sources of spiritual texts (see Truth vs. Falsehood for a complete listing of calibrated spiritual teachers/teachings).
I can personally attest to this, as I've had a bunch of revelations a couple days after picking up a high-level spiritual text, despite not completely understanding the words/concepts in it.
Thank you for clarifying
What you write is true. There can be whole energetic dreams of consciousness in books written by masters. Also that information can help prepare the mind for accepting new paradigms and taking action. But the real change usually comes from the transmission of consciousness through working with a teacher. It can come in other ways, but takes more effort, or is an anomaly.
So yes, don't throw away your books. But don't hold on to them for your salvation either.
More of my ramblings...
This concept feels right to me.
Are we not the sum of our experiences ?
Do we become happier without memories of experiences which become parasites ?
Amnesia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia can provide these results :
On the other hand, Wired News: People Are Human-Bacteria Hybrid.
Perhaps we should learn to get along together.
This Incomplete Manifesto was posted by another good soul from the Personal Development for Smart People Forums:
Lost in Translation
Who said you lose your memories?
Did I misconstrue the relationship of the old agreements, or baggage from the past with one's memory ?
I don't know what you contrued in your mind
I used "old agreements and baggage" to mean all the beliefs in your mind and emotional attachments. That is the structure of the mind that is the basis for the internal dialogue. What goes along with your beliefs and attachments is your ego mind. Let's call it your personal identity. In the Initiation of Death you experience yourself as something else. Because you realize you are something else, you drop all the beliefs about your personal identity.
Anyways these are just words that helps to create a description. We might believe we understand the description. But when you have the experience you In my experience you realize it was exactly like it was described and nothing like you understood it to be.
I have been experienceing a sense of seperateness from my body recently. Kind of like the intitation in the Dead. I lose touch with my Ego and just become awareness. its kinda scary because I wonder what could happen if i lost control at a key moment.
Nothing, your Self (or unconscious mind, you can call it) automatically directs you to do what is in your highest good. Have you noticed that the less you consciously think about something, the better you perform at various tasks? If you don't think about what you're trying to say, the words just come out perfectly. Unfortunately, we believe we're responsible for all our actions/thoughts (ego-identification) and sabotage ourselves with too much thinking and worrying.
Sometimes we just gotta get out of our own way ;)
Some people gain new insight from books to better grasp their own evolution. Different interpretations of consciousness, memory, and dreams for example, can help me to better stand back and grasp abstract concepts. That doesn't mean I take the views of otehr people at face value. I don't always think words adequately describe how I feel and what I experience.
As it is, we all create a personal understanding of existence, heaven, hell, meditation or whatever experience may be our present focus. We also add our own slant, whether we think some thought or action is good or bad. Our own value judgments are often shaped by external influences. How do you know when your feeling is solely your own?
OK, please accept my apology. (I got carried away...)
Would the Initiation of Death produce enlightenment ?
What is your definition of enlightenment?
I'm not being coy here. It's just some traps of language.
In one point of view, yes. But for someone that is not ready, they will not be able to maintain that level of conscious awareness. So the development of consciousness and mastering focusing your attention is more important than the one process. Otherwise the gains made in the initiation will be lost over time.
Now the other question. Knowing that the initiation will bring you to enlightenment will create enough of a belief in your mind to prevent the leap in consciousness. That little attachment through belief in those conceptual ideas is as much of a trap than a help to someone that makes the journey.
If you want to be enlightened I suggest you first develop self mastery over your attention and your happiness. Once you achieve that, then you will be able to make a more informed decision on whatever you deem to be enlightenment.
I'm done posting on this thread. It's probably creating more questions than answering. I did do a podcast recently that touches on the challenges of this journey in consciousness. It is the Understanding Ego and Consciousness podcast. You can download the audio from my site or find it on iTunes.
If you are making a journey in consciousness, you will make more progress by taking action on the step in front of you than to imagine the destination.
I missed this thread the first time around though I find it interesting now because I've recently finished listening to the audio of Jed McKenna's Spiritual Enlightenment: The Damndest Thing. He says that enlightenment is the result of an endeavour similar to the what the Initiation of the Dead seems to be.
In summary Jed describes enlightenment as the state that you exist in once you've stripped away everything that is not true. He says that to get there you must first have a burning desire to discover what of reality is truly real. And then go through a process of eliminating everything else. He describes it as a brutal, violent process. It's a very nihilistic approach.
I started reading his second book, Spiritually Incorrect Enlightenment, but quickly got bored because it revealed nothing new, and pretty much was all about how Moby Dick is about his interpretation of the path to enlightenment.
It doesn't sound all that appealing, and Jed makes that point too, as well as the point Gary made, that the experience is just as it was described, but not as you previously understood it to be.
The Initiation of the Dead sounds like it would require far more dedication, passion and belief than most would feel for such an endeavour. A case of normal distribution where the majority of people would benefit more from the slower, step-by-step process, leaving the more dramatic process for the few.
The Initiation of Death can be easy
The process doesn't have to be violent. If the preparation process is done well it can be quite beautiful and ecstatic. One doesn't just decide to become initiated. You practice clearing your mind of all the false beliefs, illusions, and fears. Then you surrender to the Will of Life.
It is a step by step process in the preparation until you make the final leap.
It is the kind of decision that isn't any decision at all. It is more like a discovery of the only sensible thing to do. Anything less is to live in fear for the rest of your life.
The more prepared you are the less is the shock as your false personality is stripped away in that final initiation.
Is this the same thing that Eckhart Tolle writes about? Being the watcher - behind the ego. The ego is the parasite which can be "killed".
Power to the Max
Endless Clarifications for the Reason about the Unknowable
I don't recall how Tolle relates the pain body to the Ego mind so perhaps they are the same to him. I see the pain body as equivalent to the parasite. You are the Watcher, Observer, or what we can call consciousness.
It can't be translated into words, but using the crude form of words as best I can,
In the initiation your pain body is wiped away. Clean. That includes your ego mind. The more of this that is done before hand the easier.
You as the conscious observer remain. And then You, merge with the Infinite. That merging with the Infinite creates a conscious expansion. There is a death of who you used to be. A birth of a whole new level of consciousness in You.
From this state of consciousness you create continue to create. But his time you create an Ally instead of a parasite or pain body.
By Ally, you could say that your mind, thoughts, and emotions operate on your behalf instead of against you. Your are based in Love and create pleasure instead of fear that would create pain.
There is a killing. Understanding that death is more a transformation of energy and matter as anything else. (Like the body dies and turns into dust and ashes, feeds the earth, and gives life.)
The type of experience that I am describing takes a great deal of Intent and Personal Power. Very few will come by this on their own. The easy way is to have a spiritual guide. This is one of the benefits of working with a Spiritual Teacher, provided they are clean, and have a strong connecting link to Intent. I was very fortunate to have don Miguel as my benefactor in this regard.
This idea that
Dissolving the ego and parasite is one step. Merging with the Infinite is another.
We should note that one doesn't have to go this route in order to live a happy and spiritually fulfilling life. There are many paths.
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