Personal Development for Smart People^TM Forums

Sunny · 01-05-2007, 10:57 PM

I attracted this blog into my experience for the first time last night! Don't know what I had been waiting for.......anyway........the posts on subjective reality are fascinating. This seems to have been a BIG missing piece of the puzzle for me. All of the sudden a lot of things are starting to make SO much more sense. So I am holding this piece of the puzzle in my hands and I am looking at it from all sorts of different directions and I feel like I need more understanding before I can actually snap it into place.

Here is a question that will help me sort it all out: How do I integrate the concepts of politics/voting into the paradigm of subjective reality? Here are some possible answers and explanations that I have thought of:

1.) Vote Republican? (I can't think of any explanation for this, but want to include all possibilities)
2.) Vote Democrat because maybe this is the lesser of two evils and will raise the country's consciousness slightly which is better than where we are today?
3.) Vote Libertarian because even though it is a throw-away vote the platform is in line with the concepts of personal responsibility and choice which align with my current level of consciousness?
4.) Not vote at all because I don't think any of the candidates are at the level of consciousness to be in leadership, if there ever is a candidate that I believe falls into this category I would vote for them?
5.) Not vote at all because I am focused on raising my own level of consciousness so have not been watching the news, don't know who is running in the election and don't care to make politics, government and all of the stuff that comes along with it part of my experience?
6.) The answer could be any of the above depending on what reality I want to create for myself?
7.) I am totally off base and am not getting the subjective reality thing at all?
8.) Something that I haven't thought about yet?

Any thoughts would be helpful as I play around with this new paradigm!

Joshiepoo3000 · 01-08-2007, 09:47 AM

Like it or not everything is not subjective. Objective reality is a parallel reality that never intersects. If you make believe the objects around you don't exist because you don't know it, then you are like the child with sunglasses that thinks he/she is invisible. Do not let subjective realism confuse you. Reality is outside the mind. Only a fool with a death wish would think otherwise. I am not calling you a fool. I am just advising you to be careful.

skydust · 01-08-2007, 09:49 AM

anarchy

Joshiepoo3000 · 01-08-2007, 11:51 AM

If we create anarchy and we do not know how to run a just government, then we will create a government for others to create anarchy against.

skydust · 01-08-2007, 03:45 PM

yes that is a possibility. i personally believe humanity still needs to become more conscious in order to have a 'utopian' system, whatever form that may take. i am not a fan of governments and capitalism though, as you may already have guessed, as they exploit humanity for self gain.

Dharma · 01-09-2007, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunny

Here is a question that will help me sort it all out: How do I integrate the concepts of politics/voting into the paradigm of subjective reality? Here are some possible answers and explanations that I have thought of:

You create your own reality in SR. So the current govenment system is a reflection of the way you govern yourself (internally). To see the outside reality change, you need to make a shift inside.

Sunny · 01-09-2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dharma

You create your own reality in SR. So the current govenment system is a reflection of the way you govern yourself (internally). To see the outside reality change, you need to make a shift inside.

Dharma - Thank you for your insight. As much as I was hoping for a more black and white answer, you were very helpful. I guess I need to start releasing my attachment to a black and white duality paradigm and start embracing the paradox of unity. I have been doing some more research and thinking this through quite a bit. This is what I have come up with. Can you let me know if I am on the right track?

Basically, there is no such thing as "right" or "wrong". There is just what you choose to experience. Whatever you choose to experience will be "truth" for you because you begin to attract it into your life.

Also, do you have any books, articles etc that you would recommend?

Much appreciated!

Michael Chui · 01-09-2007, 06:43 PM

8.

The candidates, the governmental system, us... they're all just an extension of your subjective reality, no? Wouldn't, then, the way you vote matter only insofar as you believe it matters?

But I don't believe in subjective reailty, so I'd recommend #2.

And maybe, like, voting on more than just the President.

Keith · 01-09-2007, 07:23 PM

The American "first past the post" voting system is (for lack of a better term) stupid. It leads to exactly the dilemma you talk about: "Should I vote for the person I actually want to get in, or the most promising candidate opposed to the person I don't want to get in?".

In Australia, we have a voting system where you specify preferences: You vote for the candidate you want, then specify who your vote should 'trickle down to' if that candidate doesn't receive enough votes to be elected. It's not perfect, but it's a lot fairer than 'first past the post'.

As Steve has said: If you don't like any of the options, open yourself to finding a "third alternative option".

In this case, that alternative option might well be to realise that the voting system itself is broken and do what you can to change it.

P.S. You forgot the "Become the candidate you want to see in the world" option too.

Dharma · 01-10-2007, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunny

Basically, there is no such thing as "right" or "wrong". There is just what you choose to experience.

Correct, there is no right or wrong. Right/wrong is a form of denial called polarity. As a people, we use polarity a lot. It is everywhere.

There is just what you choose to experience. Yes, and this includes the experience of denial. Which is, creating something and pretending you did not.

An example would be blaming our political system for the problems we see. Blaming others is another way of saying, "I'm not the creator here", which is the denial.

Hey, i created the system and the problems, I might as well own it and see it as a reflection of self, than blame it on others (who are me anyway).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunny

Whatever you choose to experience will be "truth" for you because you begin to attract it into your life.

I'm a stickler on language and this is how I see things.
You are a creator of all your experience. You don't really attract things to you because, to me, that implies they come from outside the self. And truth... I don't know what to say about that. You're truth I guess is your experience in the moment, which can change completely in the next moment.

Books and articles
I have not found many books that present reality without some denial thrown in.

What I do like is Seth (Jane Roberts). The information was delivered in the 1970's but there nothing that currently comes close IMO.
Books: Seth Speaks, The Nature of Personal Reality, The Individual and the Nature of Mass Events.

The Articles link on the Vywamus Foundation site is good.

My own blog (in my sig) is going through its growing pains right now. I've got a few projects underway at home and I will be posting as I can. I will be starting a series with the basics of creatorship/manifestation and building on that information.

Dan.Linehan · 01-11-2007, 01:01 AM

What a cool post. My own answer is that we should vote based on our own personal beliefs. Personally, I believe that libertarianism is the best form of government. My vote is my only voice in politics right now. Maybe later when I have more money I will be able to financially support the libertarian party as well. Personally, I can't think of a more worthy cause to tithe to, as libertarianism is by definition true freedom from oppression.

/Things aren't as complicated as people make them.

Sunny · 01-11-2007, 03:38 PM

Wow. You guys are all giving me great stuff to think about! Thanks to everyone who has posted on this thread

Dan - I think we should start another thread about libertarianism. I became very interested in this platform during the election in November. However, I had a really hard time finding any solid information that explained the principles behind it. I went to the official websites which helped a bit, but what I really need is a someone who understands it so I can ask questions.

Keith - "Become the candidate you want to see in the world!" This one really threw me for a loop. Great point.........who knows, you might be seeing commercials on TV "Sunny for President!" Of course, I would be sure to create a landslide election for myself...........

Dharma - Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! (Or should I be thanking me for creating the experience of you? Ha - and the fun begins!) So I am really starting to "get" this. It is pretty amazing. Yesterday I was driving through rush hour traffic and when someone needed to change lanes etc. I found myself saying "Oh, I'll let me in" and there was this feeling of pure peace and unconditional love. On the levels of conciousness it feels like I made the jump from reason to love - does that make sense? Of course, I am still falling back into reason and objective reality so I would say this is still my natural state, but I at least have a feeling for where I am going. Thank you for bringing up the whole denial thing, the idea of creating something and then pretending I did not. You totally nailed it because this really is the crux of the confusion for me, I just didn't realize what it was and the whole politics thing was just an example that I could use to illustrate my dilema. So now that I accept that I have created the current world situation, what do I want to create that will move "me" (us) from where "I" (us) am now to where "I" (us) want to be. From here the options are endless.........now this is starting to get a LOT more fun! I checked out the Vywamus Foundation and all the Seth Learning Center . Both offered great insight and I will be exploring them further.

Thanks again for your help! Once I have this integrated I think I will move on to that whole "stay present in the moment of now" thing.........

skydust · 01-11-2007, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dharma

You create your own reality in SR. So the current govenment system is a reflection of the way you govern yourself (internally). To see the outside reality change, you need to make a shift inside.

ugh, so this means i exploit mankind for personal gain. you know, i can actually see how i do that. im glad to say im aware of and working on it.

Michael Chui · 01-12-2007, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skydust

ugh, so this means i exploit mankind for personal gain. you know, i can actually see how i do that. im glad to say im aware of and working on it.

No, mankind is a reflection of yourself. So you're exploiting yourself for personal gain.

cylon · 01-12-2007, 01:54 AM

I'm trying to step away from politics all together. I see it as being so negative. The 2000 election got me addicted to politics. I was very interested before that, but the whole re-count deal, I just got caught up in the whole thing, the us versus them mentality, splitting people evenly as liberal or conservative, and getting into totally pointless arguments and debates about politics, and watching all the talk shows on tv where people yell at each other. I'm trying to remember how many times someone changed their minds in one of these debates, and accepted the other person's point of view. Let's see, years of watching most of the political shows, as much as possible, someone changed their opinion.... trying to think back. I can't remember one. Seems I would remember something like that.

I always liked to think, oh I am so well informed. I am up to date on every little political thing that happened today. I have so much knowledge. I guess I realized, that I was spending more time WORRYING about the political future of the U.S., and the state of the world, that it took so much joy away from my life. I was very, very passionate about politics.

This has only been the last few months that I've deliberately started to not pay attention so much. I'm not putting my head in the sand, I check the headlines, I vote. I know enough. I've decided to spend my time doing things I enjoy. No more talk radio on the commute to work, now it's music, or audio books that make me feel good or expand my mind. I don't know if I can "change the world" but I sure can change MY world.

I would call myself a libertarian. Perhaps someday that party will have an influence in the U.S. I believe it is the best of the ideal conservative and liberal viewpoints, combined.

skydust · 01-12-2007, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

No, mankind is a reflection of yourself. So you're exploiting yourself for personal gain.

hmmm. now thats something to think about... that implies that i dont really need to do any exploiting because everything is already there either way. its like me taking my own money to have it myself, when its already mine. interesting...

Michael Chui · 01-12-2007, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skydust

hmmm. now thats something to think about... that implies that i dont really need to do any exploiting because everything is already there either way. its like me taking my own money to have it myself, when its already mine. interesting...

Now you're getting the gist of it.

This is why a number of people consider SR to be morally wrong. I'm not going to argue it (it's been done to death in other threads), but I'm pointing it out.

Joshiepoo3000 · 01-13-2007, 06:04 AM

I believe both realities must be interpreted in moderation. To be overly submersed into your own subjective reality creates delusions and a warped sense of location and understanding. It becomes entirely selfish. On the other hand, to be submersed in objective reality makes you entirely materialistic. Both must be realized in harmony.
I believe this has to do with enlightenment.

01-05-2007, 10:57 PM	#1 (permalink)
Sunny Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 39	Subjective Reality and Politics/Voting I attracted this blog into my experience for the first time last night! Don't know what I had been waiting for.......anyway........the posts on subjective reality are fascinating. This seems to have been a BIG missing piece of the puzzle for me. All of the sudden a lot of things are starting to make SO much more sense. So I am holding this piece of the puzzle in my hands and I am looking at it from all sorts of different directions and I feel like I need more understanding before I can actually snap it into place. Here is a question that will help me sort it all out: How do I integrate the concepts of politics/voting into the paradigm of subjective reality? Here are some possible answers and explanations that I have thought of: 1.) Vote Republican? (I can't think of any explanation for this, but want to include all possibilities) 2.) Vote Democrat because maybe this is the lesser of two evils and will raise the country's consciousness slightly which is better than where we are today? 3.) Vote Libertarian because even though it is a throw-away vote the platform is in line with the concepts of personal responsibility and choice which align with my current level of consciousness? 4.) Not vote at all because I don't think any of the candidates are at the level of consciousness to be in leadership, if there ever is a candidate that I believe falls into this category I would vote for them? 5.) Not vote at all because I am focused on raising my own level of consciousness so have not been watching the news, don't know who is running in the election and don't care to make politics, government and all of the stuff that comes along with it part of my experience? 6.) The answer could be any of the above depending on what reality I want to create for myself? 7.) I am totally off base and am not getting the subjective reality thing at all? 8.) Something that I haven't thought about yet? Any thoughts would be helpful as I play around with this new paradigm!

01-09-2007, 07:23 PM	#9 (permalink)
Keith Family Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 1,139	The American "first past the post" voting system is (for lack of a better term) stupid. It leads to exactly the dilemma you talk about: "Should I vote for the person I actually want to get in, or the most promising candidate opposed to the person I don't want to get in?". In Australia, we have a voting system where you specify preferences: You vote for the candidate you want, then specify who your vote should 'trickle down to' if that candidate doesn't receive enough votes to be elected. It's not perfect, but it's a lot fairer than 'first past the post'. As Steve has said: If you don't like any of the options, open yourself to finding a "third alternative option". In this case, that alternative option might well be to realise that the voting system itself is broken and do what you can to change it. P.S. You forgot the "Become the candidate you want to see in the world" option too. Last edited by Keith; 01-09-2007 at 07:26 PM.

01-13-2007, 06:04 AM	#18 (permalink)
Joshiepoo3000 Banned Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Washington Posts: 84	I believe both realities must be interpreted in moderation. To be overly submersed into your own subjective reality creates delusions and a warped sense of location and understanding. It becomes entirely selfish. On the other hand, to be submersed in objective reality makes you entirely materialistic. Both must be realized in harmony. I believe this has to do with enlightenment. Last edited by Joshiepoo3000; 01-13-2007 at 06:06 AM.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

01-08-2007, 09:47 AM	#2 (permalink)
Joshiepoo3000 Banned Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Washington Posts: 84	Like it or not everything is not subjective. Objective reality is a parallel reality that never intersects. If you make believe the objects around you don't exist because you don't know it, then you are like the child with sunglasses that thinks he/she is invisible. Do not let subjective realism confuse you. Reality is outside the mind. Only a fool with a death wish would think otherwise. I am not calling you a fool. I am just advising you to be careful.

01-08-2007, 09:49 AM	#3 (permalink)
skydust Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: UK Posts: 197	anarchy

01-08-2007, 11:51 AM	#4 (permalink)
Joshiepoo3000 Banned Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Washington Posts: 84	If we create anarchy and we do not know how to run a just government, then we will create a government for others to create anarchy against.

01-08-2007, 03:45 PM	#5 (permalink)
skydust Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: UK Posts: 197	yes that is a possibility. i personally believe humanity still needs to become more conscious in order to have a 'utopian' system, whatever form that may take. i am not a fan of governments and capitalism though, as you may already have guessed, as they exploit humanity for self gain.

01-09-2007, 06:43 PM	#8 (permalink)
Michael Chui Family Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Seattle, Washington, USA Posts: 3,977	8. The candidates, the governmental system, us... they're all just an extension of your subjective reality, no? Wouldn't, then, the way you vote matter only insofar as you believe it matters? But I don't believe in subjective reailty, so I'd recommend #2. And maybe, like, voting on more than just the President.

01-11-2007, 01:01 AM	#11 (permalink)
Dan.Linehan Family Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Rafael, CA Posts: 4,896	What a cool post. My own answer is that we should vote based on our own personal beliefs. Personally, I believe that libertarianism is the best form of government. My vote is my only voice in politics right now. Maybe later when I have more money I will be able to financially support the libertarian party as well. Personally, I can't think of a more worthy cause to tithe to, as libertarianism is by definition true freedom from oppression. /Things aren't as complicated as people make them.

01-11-2007, 03:38 PM	#12 (permalink)
Sunny Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 39	Wow. You guys are all giving me great stuff to think about! Thanks to everyone who has posted on this thread Dan - I think we should start another thread about libertarianism. I became very interested in this platform during the election in November. However, I had a really hard time finding any solid information that explained the principles behind it. I went to the official websites which helped a bit, but what I really need is a someone who understands it so I can ask questions. Keith - "Become the candidate you want to see in the world!" This one really threw me for a loop. Great point.........who knows, you might be seeing commercials on TV "Sunny for President!" Of course, I would be sure to create a landslide election for myself........... Dharma - Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! (Or should I be thanking me for creating the experience of you? Ha - and the fun begins!) So I am really starting to "get" this. It is pretty amazing. Yesterday I was driving through rush hour traffic and when someone needed to change lanes etc. I found myself saying "Oh, I'll let me in" and there was this feeling of pure peace and unconditional love. On the levels of conciousness it feels like I made the jump from reason to love - does that make sense? Of course, I am still falling back into reason and objective reality so I would say this is still my natural state, but I at least have a feeling for where I am going. Thank you for bringing up the whole denial thing, the idea of creating something and then pretending I did not. You totally nailed it because this really is the crux of the confusion for me, I just didn't realize what it was and the whole politics thing was just an example that I could use to illustrate my dilema. So now that I accept that I have created the current world situation, what do I want to create that will move "me" (us) from where "I" (us) am now to where "I" (us) want to be. From here the options are endless.........now this is starting to get a LOT more fun! I checked out the Vywamus Foundation and all the Seth Learning Center . Both offered great insight and I will be exploring them further. Thanks again for your help! Once I have this integrated I think I will move on to that whole "stay present in the moment of now" thing.........

01-12-2007, 01:54 AM	#15 (permalink)
cylon Family Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6,852	I'm trying to step away from politics all together. I see it as being so negative. The 2000 election got me addicted to politics. I was very interested before that, but the whole re-count deal, I just got caught up in the whole thing, the us versus them mentality, splitting people evenly as liberal or conservative, and getting into totally pointless arguments and debates about politics, and watching all the talk shows on tv where people yell at each other. I'm trying to remember how many times someone changed their minds in one of these debates, and accepted the other person's point of view. Let's see, years of watching most of the political shows, as much as possible, someone changed their opinion.... trying to think back. I can't remember one. Seems I would remember something like that. I always liked to think, oh I am so well informed. I am up to date on every little political thing that happened today. I have so much knowledge. I guess I realized, that I was spending more time WORRYING about the political future of the U.S., and the state of the world, that it took so much joy away from my life. I was very, very passionate about politics. This has only been the last few months that I've deliberately started to not pay attention so much. I'm not putting my head in the sand, I check the headlines, I vote. I know enough. I've decided to spend my time doing things I enjoy. No more talk radio on the commute to work, now it's music, or audio books that make me feel good or expand my mind. I don't know if I can "change the world" but I sure can change MY world. I would call myself a libertarian. Perhaps someday that party will have an influence in the U.S. I believe it is the best of the ideal conservative and liberal viewpoints, combined.

Personal Development for Smart PeopleTM Forums

Personal Development for Smart People^TM Forums