Cougar Consciousness: The Predators Are Back!

[Megan]

OK, well, let me try to make a case for posting this topic on this forum. If the moderator doesn't agree, the moderator gets to do the moderator thing, of course!

I live in a "rural-residential" area in Texas on a beautiful hilly road with houses on acreages, with horses and cows, all along it.

One of my main meditative and de-stressing practices is to walk at least an hour on that beautiful road. You could call it a positive addiction. I also love to walk around our acre at night looking at the moon and stars through the trees--just beautiful.

That all changed, along with a lot of other things, last Fall.

First came the intuition.

I did a lot of traveling last year, doing my walking wherever I went. When I settled back in Texas in the Fall, I started down the road with my Aussie dog, and didn't get a quarter of a mile before my body just turned itself around and walked straight home. Hmmm. That's never happened before. Tried several more times, but couldn't get my body to walk down that road.

Moonlit night: started out the door to enjoy the sky. Like Balaam's donkey, my body refused to go out. What is going on here?

This went on for several weeks. One day I felt drawn to go out in the back yard and just scan the surroundings intuitively. It was a very strong feeling that there was something that I needed to know that I didn't consciously know. I looked all around saying, "What is it? What is it that I need to know?"

Later that day, my neighbor called to talk about "our" dog--he visits her a lot. She said, "Did you hear the cougar screaming? I thought it was a woman and checked on my neighbor." She said another neighbor had a cow clawed. I said, no, I hadn't heard it.

Later in the day, I'm going, "Oh. My. Goodness! I did too hear it! "

I had heard a singing/screaming sound in the night, very close, and forced myself, literally forced myself to believe it was coyotes, even though at the time, I remember thinking, "The coyotes are never this close, and this is just one voice...."

I had done a number on myself consciously, but my body knew better. It's hard for me to believe how deeply, but unsuccessfully, I had suppressed this primitive instinct to be aware of big cats. (My body was picking up on things several weeks before I heard the caterwauling in October. I wasn't able to walk even in September.)

I've done a lot of reading since then and am just shocked at the scope of a situation that I had only the vaguest idea existed until now.

I'm also shocked at how polarized the situation is! We will be hearing a whole lot more about this issue in coming years, I am just sure!

Meanwhile, I am trying to sort out the facts from the phobia, which isn't so easy--there are a lot of things happening out there, and more all the time.

People don't take you seriously when you talk about cougars, even in lion country--it's kind of like reporting a UFO, but it's all there.

The one site I know of that is a clearinghouse for links to cougar incidents on the Net keeps getting hacked, presumably by people who don't want the information about what's really happening to get out.

Cougars

The trackincats . com forum is currently down...again...hacked, I presume.

So, if the moderator decides to let this thread stay up, be aware that hackers may try to shut it down if I share stories and links.

I'll link to a couple of stories in my next post, but am totally prepared to honor the moderator's decision about this thread, it goes without saying.

[Megan]

I'm going to post snippets & links to a couple of stories below, but let me just first say, this issue has it all!

This issue links our primitive body awareness with our spirituality and with contemporary social and political issues of great importance--for what is more important than the future of our children and the biosphere of which we are stewards?

OK, the best resource that I know of on this issue is David Baron's The Beast in the Garden, which reads like a page-turner detective story, while giving solid research on the development of the present situation on the Front Range in Colorado. Mr. Baron, of NPR fame, has done his homework about this issue, IMO. Needless to say, he has his detractors!

Amazon.com: The Beast in the Garden: The True Story of a Predator's Deadly Return to Suburban America: Books: David Baron

The following story took place in the Evergreen, Colorado area. Evergreen is south of Boulder, next to Denver:

Stalking lion puts fear into family
Evergreen predator makes off with pet, shows interest in son
By Kirk Mitchell
Denver Post Staff Writer
Article Last Updated: 05/31/2006 01:24:11 AM MDT


Evergreen - A mountain lion narrowly missed taking a bite out of Shaffer Warner's legs as the man rushed through his front door on a recent night.

A week earlier, the mountain lion crushed Indigo, the family's Siamese cat, in its jaws in front of Warner's wife Carrie as she pummeled it with firewood a few feet from their home near Cub Creek Park.

But what disturbs the couple the most is that the big cat has crouched outside the bedroom window of their 6-year-old son Schylure and stared at the boy.

"We're scared out of our minds," Carrie Warner said. "There is something very strange about the way this lion is hunting us. I'm at the end of my rope."

The Warners are worried that, just as a boy was mauled by a mountain lion near a popular trail in Boulder about a month ago, their nightly tormentor will eventually attack their son or them.

DenverPost.com - Stalking lion puts fear into family

Palo Alto Weekly
Publication Date: Wednesday, October 13, 2004


In the lion's den?
More mountain lions spotted near residential areas, official says
by Bill D'Agostino and Tony Burchyns

On a table at the Palo Alto nature center, City Naturalist Deborah Bartens displayed a map of the region, replete with tricolor-coded flags. The colors represent degrees of danger that mirror America's terrorist-alert system.

The surfeit of green flags pinpoint locations where a mountain lion has been recently sighted in its natural habitat. The few yellow flags represent where a cougar was outside of its habitat. There are no red flags, which is why Bartens spends much of her time tracking various sightings.
Red flags signal a mountain lion attack.

The number of mountain lion sightings in Palo Alto has increased exponentially in 2004. In the previous nine years, there were only 16 unconfirmed sightings in the city's open space preserves. During the first nine months of this year, there have been 30, according to data collected by Palo Alto Ranger Michelle Wagner.

Although it's not known how much of that jump is due to people's heightened awareness after the police's high-profile -- and controversial -- shooting of a cougar five months ago, Bartens believes the ill-fated feline that traveled into Palo Alto on May 17 was prescient.

"That lion came in with a message that was loud and clear: 'Pay attention, because things are changing," she said.

In the lion's den? (October 13, 2004)

Palo Alto is a city in the San Francisco Bay Area & is the economic focal point of Silicon Valley. Median family income is $117,000. Homes in Palo Alto run from $700,000 to well in excess of $10,000,000, according to Wikipedia. It is home to Stanford University, Hewlitt-Packard and Xerox.

It is also home to a very busy and worried City Naturalist, Deborah Barten, who carries a dedicated cell phone for cougar issues, the "cat phone."

Personally, I think City Naturalist Deborah Bartens is the one who is prescient, and kudos to her for that!

But here is a photo (taken by an unnamed news cameraman for KPIX-TV) of the beautiful but ill-fated 110 pound male, "prescient" lion that travelled into Palo Alto on May 17, 2004" and was shot by police just three blocks from an elementary school:



"PAY ATTENTION! THINGS ARE CHANGING!"

[Bruce Achterberg]

Megan,

I can't speak for Adam (who moderates the Spirituality, Consciousness, & Awareness board/forum with me), but I have no problem whatsoever with your post. Quite the contrary; I found your post interesting and would very much like to hear more (specifically about why some people feel the need to prevent this information from getting out... I looked at the website you linked to, and found no info about it). Please feel free to continue posting and sharing your stories and any information you might have.

[Megan]

Thanks, Bruce--I see that you are a moderator with Adam, so I guess it's OK to continue--assuming you two get along!

On the trackincats forum, I had started a thread called "Oregon," and had posted material about the Medford/Jackson County area.

The following sampling of incidents span a 6-month period in the Medford/Jackson County Oregon area--note the number of incidents where the complainant says the animal was "not afraid," and the number of pets/livestock stalked/attacked/killed/intimidated:


*Adult female cougar and two juveniles seen in trailer park at night
*Cougar observed by neighbor in complainant's yard at 4 p.m.
*Cougar seen in driveway at night - did not run off
*Cougar seen periodically in daytime for last two weeks, cat killed, watching wife.
*Car damaged by animal/scratched - complainant and police think cougar
*2nd attack on car, both fenders chewed, scratched - bite marks too big for bobcat - matches cougar skull
*Cougar killed deer at front gate just before dark
*Cougar coming near home at night - dog frightened
*Cougar seen crossing road at dusk, running toward residential area
*Cougar "stalking" horses in pasture last night 10 p.m. - only ran off short distance when spotlighted - not afraid. Neighbor's calf killed 3 weeks ago.
*Cougar seen going into ravine near home at 1 in the afternoon
*2 cougars seen in pasture at dusk Christmas eve, attacked and killed 5 week old goat. Cougars did not run when yelled at.
*Goat attacked and injured at night, vet confirms injuries as cougar caused.
*School bus driver saw large cougar cross road at 7:23 a.m.
*Cougar tracks found in horse pasture - horse's legs scratched.
*Cougar killed one calf one week ago ($300)
*While walking dog at night on trail, saw 3 cougars who ran towards complainant to within 30 yards and trailed him from 1/2 mile back to car. Headlamp may have confused them - large, aggressive shepherd dog frightened.
*Young cougar with nose on window at 5:15 p.m., dusk - ran from human.
*25 lb heeler dog injured by cougar - sliced 3" into muscle hip to flank - during daytime on February 1.
*Cougar seen behind garage, daytime, saw complainants and was not afraid.
*1 large cougar seen in yard at 2 p.m. on 2/6 - residential community with walkers and joggers
*Large cougar seen behind barn in morning
*2 cougars seen across creek about 25 yards from house - not afraid of people or dogs.
*Large cougar in yard at night
*Complainant heard sound like woman screaming at night in yard - cougar? Concerned about daycare kids.
*Cougar seen on fence in yard - mid day, inside city limits.
*2 house cats missing, cougar track at door & growling. Neighbor video taped cougar in yard.
*Cougar seen in yard at 1:00 in the afternoon - cats missing.
*Cougar ate house cat and jumped over fence - daytime.
*Cougar seen 2-3x at night, killed 2 cats.
*Complainant saw cougar attack cat at back glass door at night in covered porch area. Beat it with a broom until it dropped cat and left. House cat injured, but OK. Saw cougar again in yard 2 hours later. Not afraid, came on porch and wouldn't leave for some time. Not afraid - strong urine smell.
*Dog (labrador) went missing at night from back door, heard screaming - found dead the following day covered in litter alongside other animal remains - cougar removed by landowner

Welcome to Jackson County Online - Cougar Incidents

The above is significant because it flies in the face of the conventional wisdom that cougars are shy, reclusive creatures, and that you can intimidate them by shouting at them, and that they rarely are seen in the daytime. That was true for most of the 20th century, but since bounty and sport hunting, especially with dogs, has been controlled, cougars have increasingly become habituated to human beings and civilization, i.e., they are finding out we are harmless, and are increasingly seeing our pets as a food source, and are starting to cue on children.

Some say that prohibiting hound hunting is partially responsible for the increase of cougar-human conflicts in the Northwest.

There are many people who are passionately against sport hunting cougars, and especially with hounds, without which the number of cougars taken is drastically reduced. The voters of Washington and Oregon voted out hound hunting--Oregon in 1994 and Washington in 1997, I think.

I am a vegetarian animal lover--don't like guns/don't like hunting--and the last person you would ever expect to come out for sport hunting predators, which no one even eats, after all. But as I said on trackincats, we have to keep our children safe, and allowing wild lions to lounge about in our suburban fenced backyards amongst the swing sets and sandboxes, while eyeing our children, is indefensible.

Cougar Attacks

One minute, David Parker was stooped under a rock ledge seeking shelter from a drenching rain. The next, the 61-year old Canadian was rolling in a muddy roadside ditch, his jaw smashed, fighting for his life against a 100-pound cougar eager for a meal.

Cougar attacks are on the rise in North America.

Such ambushes are an increasing fact of life in cougar country, which stretches across a large swath of western North America. In California, for instance, there had been no documented cougar attacks for 100 years prior to 1986. But since then, there has been an average of one attack on a hiker, jogger, or camper a year -- some fatal. People living in the southwestern corner of Canada have seen a similar trend.

Wildlife experts don't fully understand the increase. But a growing human population that is spreading out into areas once ruled by cougars is probably partly to blame. And greater interest in outdoor sports, from hiking to cross-country skiing, may be bringing more people into potentially dangerous conflict with the big cats -- although there a number of steps you can take to stay out of harm's way.

NATURE. Trail of the Cougar. Cougar Attacks | PBS

I could regale you with dozens more stories, but I'll wait for other people to weigh in on the issue.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Bruce Achterberg

Megan,

I can't speak for Adam (who moderates the Spirituality, Consciousness, & Awareness board/forum with me), but I have no problem whatsoever with your post. Quite the contrary; I found your post interesting and would very much like to hear more (specifically about why some people feel the need to prevent this information from getting out... I looked at the website you linked to, and found no info about it). Please feel free to continue posting and sharing your stories and any information you might have.

I can't speak for Bruce (who moderates the Spirituality, Consciousness, & Awareness board/forum with me), but I have no problem whatsoever with your post. Quite the contrary; I found your post interesting and would very much like to hear more (specifically about why some people feel the need to prevent this information from getting out... I looked at the website you linked to, and found no info about it). Please feel free to continue posting and sharing your stories and any information you might have.

Bruce, you took the words right out of my mouth.

[Megan]

OK, good--but y'all watch out for them hackers!

[Megan]

OK, Adam, of Logan, Utah, this is for you:

Cougar attack reported on the Weber River

OGDEN (July 18, 2003) — Two cougar incidents on July 16 in northern Utah have prompted wildlife officials to ask recreationists and those who live near wildlife to be alert for possible encounters.

On Wednesday morning, Division of Wildlife Resources officers in Cache Valley were informed that a cougar was in a tree near a residential area. The animal was tranquilized and relocated.

That same afternoon, an angler reported being attacked by a cougar while he was fishing on the Weber River near the town of Peoa, 40 miles east of Salt Lake. The angler suffered minor injuries that did not require treatment. Officers were still looking for the cougar on Friday morning. Because of public safety concerns, the cougar will be destroyed if it's found.

Utah Division of Wildlife Resources

Cougar Attacks and Kills Dog in Holladay
Jan. 10, 2004
Kimberly Houk reporting

"It was the most beloved pet of the whole street. Everybody loved that animal and it probably didn't give much of a fight. "




A mountain lion attacked and killed a dog early this morning in the backyard of a home in Holladay.

The mountain lion came down out of the mountains just after 2 o'clock this morning. Officials say it was probably looking for food.

This afternoon the division of wildlife resources found the cougar about a fourth of a mile from where it attacked the dog.

Blood hounds traced the cougar to a Holladay home at about 1 this afternoon. They found it hiding in the tree.



KSL News: Cougar Attacks and Kills Dog in Holladay

[Michael Chui]

I'm confused: what's the point of this thread?

[Megan]

Michael, I think the emerging situation with cougars is a consciousness issue on many levels.

First of all, on the informational level, a lot is happening that most people are not up to speed on yet, not conscious of at the mundane level.

And, as I pointed out with my own experience, we seem to have a primitive intuition about big cats. Given time, I could produce a number of stories about "the-hair-on-the-back-of-my-neck-stood-up-and-I-knew-I-was-in-danger" sense people have had around cougars. Fear is very much a consciousnes issue. The book The Gift of Fear addresses this kind of primitive instinctual reaction quite well: your body takes over, and does the thinking for you.

Amazon.com: The Gift of Fear. Survival Signals That Protect Us from Violence.: Books: Gavin De Becker

It is a consciousness issue in the broader social sense, also, I believe, in that it is extremely polarized, which tells me that both sides are projecting on the other, and neither is seeing the whole picture.

I'm also interested in the spiritual aspects of dealing with cougar consciousness. The Native Americans felt that all the animals were teachers, i.e., had "medicine." I'm wondering what "Cougar Medicine" might have to teach our culture, as it forcefully presents itself to us at this time.

But, as I said, I'm perfectly willing for this not to be kept on the board, if the powers that be feel that it is inappropriate.

But, if it stays up, I think one has to start at the informational level of consciousness, to catch people up with what's actually happening. That will involve a lot of stories. Then, maybe later the social and spiritual aspects could be discussed. Or not. It's up to the moderators.

[Michael Chui]

Well, yes: cougars eat you. It's quite natural to be afraid of things that eat you. But I'm still not seeing the point of citing every story about cougar-related incidents. What is it that people should be conscious of? That cougars have teeth and stomachs and frequently live in areas that people like to build residential housing in?

[Megan]

Michael, I see this as inherently a spiritual issue that reaches right down to where the rubber meets the road--the back yards where our children play--but you have a perfect right to your own opinion, it goes without saying, if you find it uninteresting.

I think it is a fascinating, multi-layered problem that will take our best minds and creative efforts to deal with. At present, I can't even imagine how we will deal with it, but I think we have the potential for a great deal of collective growth in the process.

In the mean time, I think we need to take keeping our children safe in our communities and recreational areas very seriously. That may mean shooting some cougars, which I am very sorry about, but I think we need to put human life first, and work toward a long-term solution that respects human life and ecological balance.

That will involve grappling with one of our most ancient fears, and has the potential for catalyzing a tremendous evolutionary shift for us collectively, I think. But...that's just me, I realize.

I don't think anyone has an answer to this yet. That's why it's interesting to think and talk about, to me, anyway, but to each his own.

[Megan]

We've been successful with the primitive response to big cats: pretty much wipe them out, which was some kind of evolutionary triumph, one might suggest.

David Baron says we should try to scare the big cats out of our back yards. Trouble is, they're not scaring so easily any more, and the kind of vengeance spoken of in this article would not, and should not be tolerated--towards animals or people.

Big cats present an interesting problem for primitive man. If you have big cats in the area you or your loved ones might end up being eaten for lunch. The trouble is, once you get good enough to be able to kill the occasional cat you still don’t seem to accomplish much. Managing to kill a cat buys you a temporary respite, but then it just gets replaced by another big cat which moves into the newly vacated territory. So trying to fight the cats would seem about as useful as what the liberals hold about fighting terrorism, which is that it’s always been and always will be, and trying to reduce it is futile. Fighting cats probably seemed that way for a long time.

Yet cats can be fought, and we’ve mostly eliminated them as a potential threat of any statistical significance. But until your cat killing abilities are good enough to pretty much wipe them out, which wasn’t until fairly recently, merely killing the cat isn’t the most productive strategy to follow. What would be a better solution would be to keep your local cats alive to defend their territory from intruders, while also making them very, very afraid of your tribe of humans. If you can teach them the lesson to stay away from you and yours, while also keeping the other cats away from you and yours, then you’ve got the ideal solution. You’re no longer game for them, and a large pressure is removed from your tribe.


The question is now how to get a large predator terrified of people.

bastardsword: Vengeance

So what will our next evolutionary advancement be vis-a-vis big cats?

Does anyone else think big cats, and wild animals in general, are a driver of evolutionary development in humans?

Does anyone else think spiritual development is part of evolutionary development?

See where I'm going?

[Megan]

Seeing the Serpent
July 19, 2006

The ability to spot venomous snakes may have played a major role in the evolution of monkeys, apes and humans, according to a new hypothesis by Lynne Isbell, professor of anthropology at UC Davis. The work is published in the July issue of the Journal of Human Evolution.

Primates have good vision, enlarged brains, and grasping hands and feet, and use their vision to guide reaching and grasping. Scientists have thought that these characteristics evolved together as early primates used their hands and eyes to grab insects and other small prey, or to handle and examine fruit and other foods.

Isbell suggests instead that primates developed good close-up eyesight to avoid a dangerous predator -- the snake.

"A snake is the only predator you really need to see close up. If it's a long way away it's not dangerous," Isbell said.

Neurological studies by others show that the structure of the brain's visual system does not actually fit with the idea that vision evolved along with reaching and grasping, Isbell said.

But the visual system does seem to be well connected to the "fear module," brain structures involved in vigilance, fear and learning.

UC Davis News & Information :: Seeing the Serpent

Does anyone else think big cats, and wild animals in general, are a driver of evolutionary development in humans?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Megan

Does anyone else think big cats, and wild animals in general, are a driver of evolutionary development in humans?

Of course. If you're unable to avoid being eaten by a big cat or other wild animal, and then the animal goes into your house and eats all your spawn, then your genes will not continue to propogate. If there's a similarity in people who get eaten (e.g., they're slow runners) then other genes (like, for fast runners) will flourish. Hence, evolutionary development.

Are you saying there's a superior, spiritual approach to cat maintenance that may lead to a proliferation of more spiritual people, as the non-spirituals get munched by cougars?

[Megan]

By Angela, Today 05:52 PM

Are you saying there's a superior, spiritual approach to cat maintenance that may lead to a proliferation of more spiritual people, as the non-spirituals get munched by cougars?

Well, good question.

I think the issue forces much bigger questions than "cat maintenance" and people getting munched.

We're here in suburbia between the cats in the back yard and the environmental people who want to protect them--on the horns, or fangs, of a dilemma, one might say.

For years we've been saying, "Think globally, act locally." The cats are making that excruciatingly difficult when they're sitting under our kids' swing set. Do we just give them the back yard, swing set and all?

As Einstein said,

The world we have made as a result of the level of thinking we have done thus far creates problems that we cannot solve at the same level as the level we created them at.

It's no longer a question of survival of the fittest, for clearly, we are the fittest, and can wipe out every last cat and the planet itself, if we will.

We are the drivers of evolution now, with our own consciousness, and we are intelligent enough to see that we are driving it into the ground.

The cats are embedded inseparably in much deeper issues, but they are bringing the issues to our own back yards and minds, forcefully, as is their nature.

Perhaps we should be grateful for this "Cougar Medicine?"

This is an inherently spiritual issue, IMO, though others differ with perfect right. Teilhard spoke of evolution having a definite direction, "Ariadne's Thread" as he called it.

Man discovers that he is nothing else than evolution become conscious of itself. The consciousness of each of us is evolution looking at itself and reflecting upon itself.
--Teilhard de Chardin

Clearly, the primitive local solutions will not work, but we have not yet advanced spiritually to global solutions, but the problems continue to drive us, as they did anciently.

May they drive us to new spiritual integration with the more-than-human world, rather than to extinction for us all.

Man is not the center of the universe as once we thought in our simplicity, but something much more wonderful--the arrow pointing the way to the final unification of the world. This is nothing else than the fundamental vision and I shall leave it at that.
--Teilhard

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Megan

The cats are embedded inseparably in much deeper issues, but they are bringing the issues to our own back yards and minds, forcefully, as is their nature.

Don't humans also bring their issues forcefully, as is their nature, too? So are we bringing Human Medicine to the cougars?

You've said several times that this is an inherently spiritual issue, but I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean. I see the practical side: keep your kids from getting eaten while also keeping the cats as safe as possible. This seems like a pretty basic human majority moral agreement.

How is it spiritual? What are YOU learning from the cougars?

[Megan]

By Angela, Today 06:42 PM

Don't humans also bring their issues forcefully, as is their nature, too? So are we bringing Human Medicine to the cougars?

I think that's an inherently spiritual question, Angela!

The agonistic conflict of these two great forces, the human and the feline, have historically brought no "human medicine" to the big cats, only death, though the native peoples brought more respect to the conflict than the Western people have. They didn't seek to eradicate the cougars, that I'm aware of.

So, your spiritual question: "Are we bringing Human Medicine to the cougars?" I think we're trying, in the last few decades, but perhaps in not as balanced way as the situation calls for (see Einstein quote above). Many, many people value the cougar for the magnificent animal that it is, and for it's ecological importance as an apex predator.

And there is a resurgence of Native American spirituality which sees Cougar as our teacher, so an exchange has begun.

By Angela

You've said several times that this is an inherently spiritual issue, but I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean. I see the practical side: keep your kids from getting eaten while also keeping the cats as safe as possible. This seems like a pretty basic human majority moral agreement.

If a person sees evolution from a strictly scientific materialistic perspective, then of course that reductionism precludes a spiritual vision of the process, by definition. Reductionism and materialism as related to spirituality would be a good topic for another thread, perhaps.

And if a person doesn't see this issue in a broader evolutionary perspective, and see spirituality as an aspect of evolution, then only the practical aspects would stand out.

I think keeping our kids safe is a practical and a spiritual issue, putting great value on human life is instinctive and spiritual, I think. It's where the spiritual and physical interface, I believe.


What am I learning from the cougars? That I have a very deep and primitive fear of them, and an equally deep instinctual sense of danger that my conscious mind cannot fathom the workings of; that my instincts are very deep and ancient, and more than personal. Perhaps I knew that intellectually before, but to experience it is quite another matter.

I am trying to experiment with not making them "other," but it is very difficult, and seemingly impossible. Yes, I can intellectually see the value of preserving them in the world, but to identify with them at a deep level is very challenging to me.

I realize that, at present, I, of course, don't have a vision for the solution to this problem, but as Charles Kettering said, "A problem well stated is a problem half solved," so I am trying to frame the problem broadly enough that a global solution could emerge, for a global solution, rather than a local solution is the only thing which will suffice.

Killing them all will not work. We already know their value in the ecological system. Letting them overrun suburbia manifestly will not work; a few more years will seal that arguement, I'm sure.

Meanwhile, we need to do the practical work of keeping our kids safe, so as not to be so spiritually/idealistically minded as to be no earthly good.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Megan

I am trying to experiment with not making them "other," but it is very difficult, and seemingly impossible. Yes, I can intellectually see the value of preserving them in the world, but to identify with them at a deep level is very challenging to me.

I can agree with and support this effort. Good luck with this.

[Megan]

Michael, it's sort of like taking Dr. Ihaleakala Hew Len's philosophy to th nth degree, as we were talking about on MindReality's thread, http://www.stevepavlina.com/forums/p...therapist.html.

Two years ago, I heard about a therapist in Hawaii who cured a complete ward of criminally insane patients–without ever seeing any of them. The psychologist would study an inmate’s chart and then look within himself to see how he created that person’s illness. As he improved himself, the patient improved.

The World’s Most Unusual Therapist » Secrets of Mind and Reality

Hey, why not? As Boldylocks said,

http://www.stevepavlina.com/forums/p...html#post27563

And the doctor makes sense too that instead of placing blame, we have to take responsiblity. I think we all have it in us to change things in the World just by sending out this energy-- what is really cool is even someone who is paralyzed or parapalegic can utilize this to heal others and any negativity in the World.

[Angela]

OK, Megan; I can almost see what you mean. I'll think about it.

My mom was horribly terrified of all cats, including little innocent pussycats. She had had a pet ocelot of all things when she was little, and of course one day it ate somebody it shouldn't have and had to be put down. A psychic told us that mom had been eaten by a tiger in Zimbabwe in a past life, had given me the gift of being allergic to cats to minimize my danger of meeting a similar fate.

[Megan]

By Angela

My mom was horribly terrified of all cats, including little innocent pussycats.

She had had a pet ocelot of all things when she was little, and of course one day it ate somebody it shouldn't have and had to be put down. A psychic told us that mom had been eaten by a tiger in Zimbabwe in a past life, had given me the gift of being allergic to cats to minimize my danger of meeting a similar fate.

Wow, that is so interesting, Angela--my mom was terrified of all cats too--totally freaked out if one even brushed her leg. Of course I loved them, and loving me, she put up with having one.

All my life, 90% of all the nightmares I've had involved big cats trying to get in the house. So naturally this issue resonates up and down with me, because cougars increasingly are trying to get in our houses, the cheeky things (I'll post some links later).

I have a friend in Boulder, Colorado, ground zero for cougar-human conflict, who says my nightmares stem from past life issues. I couldn't tell you. But the nightmares are very graphic and scary.

In that vein, here's an interesting post from today on this forum:

By Sassou

Ok, here is now a different take on it:

Your spirit is passing through different lifes.

Each life has its purpose and some of its events are a result of your past lifes.
Yes you have in a way created these events.

For example: If you had a conflict with someone in your past life you might meet this spirit again in this life and have difficulties again.

The beauty of this age in time is that we are now able to analyse our relationships better and can resolve them so they don't have to happen again in your next life.

Here is a simple example:

In my past life I was killed by a Lion that bit me in my throat and dragged me away.

In this life I was attacked by a dog when I was 11 years old - the dog bit me in my throat.

So I resolved this issue by - getting a dog. A puppy. And I studied Animal communication to overcome my fear from stranges dogs.

Issue resolved.

So yes we do create our own reality.

And you can take charge over it.

I'm officially freaked out

Maybe, like Dr. Len, we can solve issues not just personally, but interpersonally, and maybe even inter-species?

Just a thought.

PS: I would appreciate if someone could tell me how to link to another's post so it says, "Originally posted by SuzieQ." Thanks!

[Megan]

...and maybe it still has evolutionary clout?

Evolutionary psychologists have also noted that humans seem to have some innate reactions to large predatory animals.

Children in Chicago still say that one of their biggest fears is of big cats. Lions, Tigers, and Pumas haunt their thoughts.

Obviously there’s no logical reason they’d be afraid of big cats, other than the fact that humans grew up being afraid of big cats, and that fear stayed with us.

We have some other common behaviors regarding animal attacks, such as a propensity to group together and make the loudest noises possible, screaming at the animal to distract it if it’s attacking someone else. Park rangers have always noticed this behavior in parks like Yellowstone, and it seems to be another thing that humans just know to do. I think we might have another behavior left over from our brutal relationship with big predators, and that’s what I’ll write about here.

bastardsword: Vengeance

Anyone want to venture whether there's a connection between evolution and karma?

[openeyes]

I don't remember ever thinking much about big cats. A zebra bit my foot as a child, but no cats

As for dealing with cougars on a practical level, scaring them out of one's back yard does little good when residential areas are expanding so much that the big cats and other predators eventually have no where to go but someone else's back yard. So what to do? Either shoot on site, or create a protected area for them. It's apt to be a combination of both.

In bear country people are expected to carry a powerful gun, but they're fairly safe as long as they don't get too close. Maybe some people will have the skill/evolution level to be able to safely live around cougars, but that doesn't work for most people at this point (or at least it's not perceived as worth the risk).

Likewise I have old hippy mountain friends who have no problem handling snakes, poisonous or otherwise. Still, if they come across a deadly one, and they have little kids around, most are apt to kill it, though they may apologize before hand and say they're only doing it to protect their children (my father did this).

[Megan]

How, exactly, does one get one's foot bitten by a zebra? Only if you want to share....

By Openeyes:

As for dealing with cougars on a practical level, (1) scaring them out of one's back yard does little good when residential areas are expanding so much that the big cats and other predators eventually have (2) no where to go but someone else's back yard.

So what to do? Either (3) shoot on site, or create a (4) protected area for them. It's apt to be a combination of both.

1. Scare them out of your back yard
2. They have nowhere to go but someone else's back yard
3. Shoot on site
4. Send them to a protected area

Excellent points, I think, and they bring up huge issues.

1. Scare them out of your back yard:

Palo Altans should also try to scare deer or cougars away when they're spotted in backyards, Baron suggested.

In the lion's den? (October 13, 2004)

That quote is attributed to David Baron, who wrote The Beast in the Garden, but I can scarcely believe he would say such an irresponsible thing, which could result in the loss of someone's life! First of all, he isn't quoted advising people what to actually do to "scare the cougars," and they are becoming demonstrably unafraid of people as time goes on--see my post #4 above.

And, after reading several stories similar to the following, one searches one's mind in vain for what to use after several pistol or shotgun blasts don't "scare the cougar." I assume it would be frowned on to shoot guns in Palo Alto back yards, and it might be also reasonably assumed that the cats in the city would be less afraid of humans and harder to scare than those encountered in the wilds.

"October, 1994. Near dawn, Dan Parrish was out deer hunting with his father when he was confronted by a cougar in Oregon west of Detroit Lake about 45 miles east of Salem, Oregon.

Walking down a logging road, he stopped on a knoll which allowed him to see left, forward, and right into a clear cut. He waited there until he heard some cracking and popping behind him, and he hoped a buck was approaching.

Instead, to his horror, a cougar head appeared just 20 feet from him. He thought he should shoot, but found this female so beautiful, that he hesitated. Then he heard more cracking and popping sounds from the woods behind his adversary. A young male walked up to her side.

Parrish knew his .264 Winchester Mag with bolt action would not easily get off two shots in the time 2 cats could make the 20 foot distance between them, so he fired a warning shot into the air. To his dismay, neither cat moved, so he picked up a rock and threw it at them. Luckily, the male took off into the woods.

Dan continued tossing rocks at the lion, but he was so nervous he couldn't hit her. He took a photo as proof he had seen the lion he didn't want to shoot. He calmed himself down, and finally hit her with a rock. This angered the lion, and she lunged at him.

On her second bound, Parrish was able to shoot her in the chest. When she lifted her head, he shot her again in the neck and then fled to get his father.

Cougar Puma Mountain Lion in Western Oregon forests

Please note that cougars can leap 20-30 feet in a bound, so she could have been on him in a few seconds from 20 feet. Also note that even many hunters are inexperienced with cougars and shake uncontrollably trying to shoot them, so the average person is likely to be even less resourceful in the presence of a big cat. Also note that some authorities advocate "hazing" cougars with bean bag guns to make them averse to humans. One hopes this doesn't "anger" the cougars in the back yards rather than scaring them away.

Cougars are wild animals and therefore unpredictable; telling inexperienced people to "scare the cougars" is patently bad advice, IMO. I'm hoping David Baron was simply misquoted.

2. They have nowhere to go but someone else's back yard:

Once a cougar has habituated to humans, it is a dangerous animal, IMO, and in many other people's opinions. It's analogous to sending offending clergymen somewhere else in hopes they'll stay out of trouble & to get them out of your own hair. It's completely counterproductive--we agree.

continued...

[Megan]

3. Shoot on site:

This would take care of the dangerous animals which have habituated to humans, but it is a political minefield.

First of all, there are always more cougars where the habituated ones came from, so it is a stopgap measure at best, but probably a necessary one, IMO.

Secondly, the political minefield part:

San Francisco Chronicle

PALO ALTO
Upset residents mourn cougar shot by officer
Tranquilizing was too risky, police say

Alan Gathright, Chronicle Staff Writer

Wednesday, May 19, 2004

Faced with a storm of protest from animal lovers over the "needless murdering" of a mountain lion shot by officers after it strayed into a Palo Alto neighborhood, police stood by their decision that an attempt to tranquilize the 99-pound cat could have endangered the community. [...]

With hundreds of children about to be released from nearby schools in the densely populated neighborhood, Fischer said, "We couldn't take the chance of shooting the animal with a tranquilizer gun and then having it run for another 30 minutes. ... While we were concerned about the animal, the human safety did take precedence.'' [...]

"I am outraged at the PA police for their needless murdering of such a beautiful creature,'' a San Francisco resident e-mailed The Chronicle. "It easily could have been removed from the premises and relocated. Those dirty blood-thirsty bastards should be ashamed. ... A treed Mountain Lion! Asleep yet!! They should hang their heads in shame."

PALO ALTO / Upset residents mourn cougar shot by officer / Tranquilizing was too risky, police say

In addition, people are making decisions and voting against their own best interests, and those of their children, it seems to me. Consider the banning of hound hunting in Oregon and Washington, and the subsequent rise in cougar-human conflict.

Also, and inexplicably to me as a mother, two of the most horrifying, hair-raising stories I can come up with involving children feature mothers who did not want the animals shot. Any domestic dog that behaved this aggressively would be put down:

Stalking lion puts fear into family
Evergreen predator makes off with pet, shows interest in son
By Kirk Mitchell
Denver Post Staff Writer
05/31/2006

"We're scared out of our minds," Carrie Warner said. "There is something very strange about the way this lion is hunting us. I'm at the end of my rope." [...]

A week after the first encounter, Carrie and Shaffer were smoking outside when they heard the lion screech.

Carrie made it inside the front door first. The lion crossed a 60-foot dirt road in a few seconds. Carrie Warner slammed the door just as her husband got through. The lion's head was caught in the door. She slammed the door on its head again and it backed out.

The Warners don't want the animal killed. Shaffer Warner said he wishes the animal to be tranquilized and relocated.

DenverPost.com - Stalking lion puts fear into family

Mother and three children fend off mountain lion attack

HOUSTON (June 8, 1998 9:20 p.m. EDT http://www.nando.net) - Armed only with a pocket knife and a mother's powerful instincts, Mary Jane Coder fought off a mountain lion that tried repeatedly to attack her young daughters on a remote Texas trail.

The family survived, but just barely. [...]

The attack took place on May 25 in Big Bend National Park in west Texas while Coder paused to take photographs of her three daughters -- Jessica, 9, Dallas, 8, and Meagan, 6 -- during a hike in the Chisos Mountains.

Coder had Dallas in the viewfinder when she noticed that the girl, sitting on a boulder, was not smiling.

"She started screaming "Mommy, Mommy, get me down from here.' I turned around and there was a big mountain lion getting ready to pounce," Coder said.

Coder, who lives in the south Texas town of Harlingen, quickly pulled the girls behind her and told them to get a pocket knife out of a backpack. In the meantime, she threw a rock at the lion to try to scare it away, but the big, tan cat's only response was an angry hiss.

She shouted at the lion and waved the knife, but the animal * began running at the girls one by one, "trying to cut them (out of a herd) like they were baby deer."

"My kids started scattering, which was the worst thing to do. It would go toward one of them and I would run toward it and it would veer away," Coder said. "I was shouting at them to come to me and shouting at the cat to go away. It was running back and forth after them. It was chaos."

At one point, Coder was so close to the mountain lion that it reached out and whacked her hand, puncturing it with a claw. "It was like it was batting me away to get to my children." [...]

* The trail where the encounter took place has been closed, but there are no plans to hunt and kill the cat, they said.

* Coder does not believe the cat should be destroyed, saying, "he was doing what mountain lions do."

Mother and three children fend off mountain lion attack

4. Send them to a protected area

I can't put my finger on a link right now, but I read yesterday about a woman who runs a shelter, and is changing her mind about the wisdom of keeping these beautiful animals in such facilities. I don't know how widespread this feeling is, but my guess is that most people in environmental circles don't want them shot, and want them to run wild.

By Openeyes:

Maybe some people will have the skill/evolution level to be able to safely live around cougars, but that doesn't work for most people at this point (or at least it's not perceived as worth the risk).

Even experienced hunters get ambushed by cougars; their biological adaptation makes them superior to us in most every way. That's why the pioneers were bent on extirpating them.

How does anyone live safely around a creature that can jump 15 feet straight up, is a master of camouflage and stealth, can take down a bull elk singlehandedly, and that increasingly sees humans as a food source?

PS: "Bear country" like "lion country" is increasingly everywhere. The people in New Jersey worry about their children at school bus stops--and we know the kids can't pack heat.

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by Megan

How, exactly, does one get one's foot bitten by a zebra? Only if you want to share....

As a little kid I went to a petting zoo and climbed up on a fence, with zebras on the other side. I guess they were used to being fed through the fence by onlookers, and this time what happened to be sticking through the fence was my foot … luckily it didn't bite too hard. Must not have cared for the flavor

[DoAnyOfYouExist]

I am not afraid of big cats. I watched myself turn into a Jaguar in the mirror once. I am pretty sure I was a big cat in a past life which would account for my intuition, quick reflexes, and also my extreme laziness I find this whole thread quite odd. I myself have never had any fear of any animals, my only fear that has pervaded through my childhood is a fear of hieghts especially in skyscrapers(fear of earthquake). I probably died in a high rise in a past life also.

[Megan]

Oh, so you just had your foot tasted by a zebra, openeyes? Doesn't sound like you would be scarred for life by that experience.

DoAnyOfYouExist, who knows, maybe you were a big cat in a past life. I really don't about anything like that. I'm open to it, but...who knows, not I. I have somewhat of a fear of heights also.

I think we might be surprised by the extent hominids have been shaped by our ancient encounters with big cats, and predators in general in an evolutionary sense.

Here's an essay on that topic, just for fun:

Stop for a moment and look at your legs, and contemplate this: they have that general size, form, and proportions because of the lions and leopards of East Africa.

An Essay on Human Evolution

And, I suggest, the big cats may still be a factor driving human evolution, not at the survival level, as previously, but driving us to a new spiritual integration.

Well, I like playing with that thought, anyway.

[wolfgang]

Just a little nutty brain storm on this. What if we line our backyards with deer and other animals that cougars eat? Have a safari track between yards? Like feed them better and then they don't need to attack us. Everyone become vegetarian and let the cougars have all the cows. Or let every kid have a pet deer that they walk around with and the cougars will attack the deer instead. Or maybe we'd have to walk along side elepahnts to be effective. Yeah, that's i - put lots of elephants in our back yards! Don't big cats stay away from them? Is there anything like a deer whistle for cars that would be like a cougar repellant for people? I guess there's no natural preditor for cougars so there's nothing like wearing fox urine purfume that would help in that respect. I know, not too practical but had those thoughts.

I think this kind of problem has been an issue for Tigers in India. Although they have poachers bringing down tigers that is more of concern for natural conservation, there's also the problem of tigers comming in contact with humans more often. They have tried recently to link up natural reserves areas so the tigers can roam. The closeness of human populations to big cat habitats is increasing so all of this is going to increase. Are these big cat issues another signal that humans as a population are out of control? Maybe that's the spiritual message. But also it points out how humans have gotten out of the survival of the fittest evolution in the physical world. It's not a level playing field since we can create tools and weapons against nature. Nature is going to balance us out somehow, eventually, or we will continue to conquer and be the only animals left.

[Megan]

Interesting little brain storm, Wolfgang.

As it happens, and I wouldn't expect you to know this unless you lived in Boulder or somewhere similar, the deer are already in the backyards, and that's what's bringing the cougars in.

My friends in Boulder might have five or six deer in their back yards at any given time, and a few fat raccoons too. The game draws in the cougars, and then they discover how easy it is to prey on pets. One cougar even went in a house through a cat door in Boulder and ate the family kitty and its cat food.

The reason this has happened is that Boulder has bought up thousands of acres around the city and kept them as green space, with no hunting. This makes them a haven for deer, which just meander into watered back yards for more lush grazing. My friends throw them heads of lettuce--very bad idea--so they're very tame.

And it's not like the cougars are statistically a huge danger right now, but the trend toward more cougar-human conflict is disturbing, and especially the cats cueing on children.

The elephants, well, a bit impractical. They do have cougar deterrents, though, which work on young cougars--it's the recorded hissing of a dominant male.

I didn't know about them linking up reserves in India so tigers can roam--I hope that works well, and keeps people safe. Those things can weigh 700 pounds! Contemplating living in tiger country in a flimsy hut is not pleasant.

Well, yes, I think our population increase is putting a lot of pressure on the cats, and especially our penchant to sprawl out into foothills, and other lion habitat. They are putting housing tracts right next to the Florida panther preserve. Asking for incidents, IMO.

I think you summed the dilemma up quite nicely:

By Wolfgang:

Are these big cat issues another signal that humans as a population are out of control? Maybe that's the spiritual message.

But also it points out how humans have gotten out of the survival of the fittest evolution in the physical world.

It's not a level playing field since we can create tools and weapons against nature. Nature is going to balance us out somehow, eventually, or we will continue to conquer and be the only animals left.

Exactly. We may not be feeling the squeeze acutely with the lions yet, but the trends are that direction. We are going to have to face up to the situation, and that will mean dialoguing with each other: environmentalists and those who want the cougars shot. A fine impasse.

We will have to bump our thinking up another level to solve this...and we will be able to thank the cougars when we do.