I'm officially freaked out

[judge45]

The whole concept of subjective reality is so mind bending to me, but at it's core it makes so much sense to me.

I've always wondered why I was me, how out of 6 billion people I was the only 'me'

I really like the concept of SR and I've seen things and made things happen that people who don't believe call accidents or coincidences, but I know in my being I've created them.

I've always felt there was something not right with the world, that I knew a truth that was fundemental to my existance, but couldn't name it or properly identify it.

I have a few questions I'd like to hear opininons on.

1. If SR is real, then my children who I love dearly are just extensions of myself. I had a lot of trouble even trying to accept SR as it means my kids are not their own beings. which saddens me.

2. If SR is to be accepted, then I'm totally alone and that also makes me feel sad.

Maybe I've got SR wrong or don't understand it very well, it feels right on so many levels, but I'm not sure I 'get it' when it comes to other people and loved ones etc.

I always thought that we were all from God or the source, but we all at least were specific beings with our own collective but seperable consciousness.

SR implies that isn't true??

I have to stop now, before I manifest grey goo leaking from my ears

Like to hear your thoughts, please keep them simple as I'm overloading as it is.

Jeff

[wolfgang]

I like to think SR is not so lonely. Your ego is just as "real" as mine. Just because we both have our own inside view of things doesn't mean we should conclude everyone else is not somebody. I've seen that theme show up in these posts but never felt it that way myself. It seems to me there has been a misplacement of bringing the universal one consciousness into the ego world and trying to look at objects as not me - but everything is only me in the universal sense. We are all one. Everyone else is just as much an individual as I am - where "I" is the ego seperate self that lives in an objective world. The other angle is from looking at the universe as one consciousness that each of is actually backed by and all the egos that are running around are some sort of illusion from that perspective but still something to experience as individual by definition or rises out of the duality of inner and outer boundaries that we have set our selves up to believe by incarnating. Just my quick replyonyour thread topic...

[Hsiang-Lin]

I have a similar take to wolfgang's. I feel like in subjective reality, our consciousness really represents everything. The trees, the rocks, you, me, etc. However, our thoughts and ego and what we believe is to be our identity or self is merely a projection from consciousness. Thus, in subjective reality, you are the only consciousness because you are part of that all encompassing consciousness. So when you talk to others, you are talking to yourself. There is no difference because everything is part of that one consciousness.

HOWEVER, once you start seeing other people as separate from you and think "I" am the only real person, then that thought and belief is just a projection of the real all-encompassing consciousness. It's like a paradox. Consciousness is all there is. There is no I, you, me, them. Thus, the bright side is that we are all indeed connected by this one consciousness. So even though talking to other people might be simply talking to a part of yourself (since you're that all-encompassing consciousness), you're still talking to a different part of yourself and that is what makes it interesting and fun. That's my take on it

[mattsonn]

Originally Posted by judge45

Like to hear your thoughts, please keep them simple as I'm overloading as it is.

I skimmed Steve's entry on subjective reality. My gut feeling is that objective reality is the way to go. SR reminds me of the old theory that the planets revolve around the Earth.

[Frans]

I compare this reality often with the reality I experience when I have a lucid dream.
I'm aware that I'm the only "real" person in that dream, though the other characters in my dream always try to convince me that they are as real as I.
When my friends/relatives appear in my dream, I know they are not real in my dream, but they have their own life (and their own reality) outside my dream.

I know that I exist, but I cannot know whether other people exist on the same level as I, because I can only experience things through my own body (I cannot feel what another person feels).

Considering this reality as a subjective reality doesn't exclude that the others cannot have their own reality.

PS. If there exists an objective reality, it will always be impossible to "see" this reality as it is, because we experience everything through our own body senses. What we call reality is per definition only a personal (subjective) perception of reality.

[skydust]

can someone please point me in the right direction, where to read steve's article on SR? i cant find it anywhere...

[The Probabilist]

Subjective Reality Q&A

Also listen to Podcast #016 - The True Nature of Reality

[skydust]

thank you probabilist. that was mind-boggling! some of those questions i had wondered since i was a kid, but as my poor mother couldnt really give me a satisfying answer to why/how i have this sense of 'me' and if i was born to someone else, would i still be me or would i not exist at all, and why i cant feel others being 'them', i settled into objective reality. it was nice to hear these questions again, and make some sense of it all. although, its still sinking in.. i will have to listen to it again at some point. ive never quite grasped this thing about all is one, but this has definetily made it clearer.

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by judge45

The whole concept of subjective reality is so mind bending to me, but at it's core it makes so much sense to me.

I've always wondered why I was me, how out of 6 billion people I was the only 'me'

I really like the concept of SR and I've seen things and made things happen that people who don't believe call accidents or coincidences, but I know in my being I've created them.

I've always felt there was something not right with the world, that I knew a truth that was fundemental to my existance, but couldn't name it or properly identify it.

I have a few questions I'd like to hear opininons on.

1. If SR is real, then my children who I love dearly are just extensions of myself. I had a lot of trouble even trying to accept SR as it means my kids are not their own beings. which saddens me.

2. If SR is to be accepted, then I'm totally alone and that also makes me feel sad.

Maybe I've got SR wrong or don't understand it very well, it feels right on so many levels, but I'm not sure I 'get it' when it comes to other people and loved ones etc.

I always thought that we were all from God or the source, but we all at least were specific beings with our own collective but seperable consciousness.

SR implies that isn't true??

I have to stop now, before I manifest grey goo leaking from my ears

Like to hear your thoughts, please keep them simple as I'm overloading as it is.

Jeff

When I first read Steve's post on SR I thought he was saying what you're saying above too. THat there is only one YOU, meaning you're in a Single Player or Single Ego reality. I did my own research and searching and concluded that we have to be in a multi-player or multi-ego reality. I think re-read Steve's article and he actually says the same thing, I just misunderstood the first time.

In other words, there is only one YOU at the spiritual level, but at the Ego level of human bodies there are many of us. Meaning, my body exists with my own desires and fears and beliefs, and your body exists with your desires and fears, but at the spiritual level you and I are the same spirit connected together and we (the spirit) creates this reality.

Hope that helps.

[Bene]

Originally Posted by judge45

The whole concept of subjective reality is so mind bending to me, but at it's core it makes so much sense to me.

I've always wondered why I was me, how out of 6 billion people I was the only 'me'

I really like the concept of SR and I've seen things and made things happen that people who don't believe call accidents or coincidences, but I know in my being I've created them.

I've always felt there was something not right with the world, that I knew a truth that was fundemental to my existance, but couldn't name it or properly identify it.

I have a few questions I'd like to hear opininons on.

1. If SR is real, then my children who I love dearly are just extensions of myself. I had a lot of trouble even trying to accept SR as it means my kids are not their own beings. which saddens me.

2. If SR is to be accepted, then I'm totally alone and that also makes me feel sad.

Maybe I've got SR wrong or don't understand it very well, it feels right on so many levels, but I'm not sure I 'get it' when it comes to other people and loved ones etc.

I always thought that we were all from God or the source, but we all at least were specific beings with our own collective but seperable consciousness.

SR implies that isn't true??

I have to stop now, before I manifest grey goo leaking from my ears

Like to hear your thoughts, please keep them simple as I'm overloading as it is.

Jeff

Don't worry... It is only your reality as much as you are allowing it to be. In other words... you will see the side of your children that you want to see and experience. And so it is with everything else around you.

I know it can be a little disconcerting but you don't have to think that only you exist. The point I think SR is trying to make is that you create your reality and that nothing outside of you has ANY control whatsoever in your life. You will experience only what you expect to experience. or give attention to.

[Rocket Surgery]

Originally Posted by judge45

The whole concept of subjective reality is so mind bending to me, but at it's core it makes so much sense to me.

I've always wondered why I was me, how out of 6 billion people I was the only 'me'

I know! I used to wonder, "How come I was born as me, and not one of a billion Chinese guys?"

I have a few questions I'd like to hear opininons on.

1. If SR is real, then my children who I love dearly are just extensions of myself. I had a lot of trouble even trying to accept SR as it means my kids are not their own beings. which saddens me.

Your kids are as much their own beings as you are. You are connected with them, but not a spiritual "parent" of them. We are all spiritual "children" of the One Universal Consciousness, and are all traveling a very long journey towards total awareness and realization of that Truth.

2. If SR is to be accepted, then I'm totally alone and that also makes me feel sad.

Correction. God WAS alone, but He/She/All-That-Is created (or separated into) all of us so as to no longer be alone. We all have each other now, and if God is actually still sitting alone atop this infinite pyramid, He's still got all of us for company. Don't be sad. Ignorance is bliss!

I sometimes imagine that all existence is the result of a lonely God having a Cosmic case of Multiple Personality Disorder.

I always thought that we were all from God or the source, but we all at least were specific beings with our own collective but seperable consciousness.

Sounds pretty close to me. I may be a "sub-personality" of my higher self, but I'm still a unique individual with self-awareness of my own. And if when I die I awaken to my higher self, I will feel much greater, not less. This personality typing at this keyboard will still remain within my memory as an experience I had that had value towards my spiritual evolution. The major difference will be that I will suddenly realize that "this DVD is over" and I'll file it away on a shelf with my ever-growing collection of "lives lived" DVDs. It just won't be the "movie" I'm focusing on anymore. And while I'm playing the major character in this current movie, I'm so involved in the illusion that I've tuned out to the reality that I've starred in other movies. Works best that way.

There was an episode of STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION where a duplicate Commander Riker is discovered stranded alone on a planet. He believes himself to be the only Riker, and both Rikers are astonished to discover they have a duplicate. The duplicate was created by a transporter malfunction after the Enterprise departed 8 years prior. The duplicate had all the memories of the original, and understandably assumed he was the one and only Riker who had been left behind.

However, living out 8 years as a castaway caused Riker #2 to develop his own unique and distinct personality since the malfunction, and nobody but the original Riker treated him as any less than a valid and separate consciousness.

My point is that although we all eminate from the same source, our unique and individual experiences change us from being the same to being genuinely separate personalities from each other. And while we are indeed all connected to each other and every other thing through the Universal Consciousness, we are at the same time as uniquely ourselves as it's possible to be. No two snowflakes are exactly alike, and no two lives can be lived exactly the same. That is your claim to individual personality in the universe, and not even God can take that away from you. Nor from your children.

Hope this helps...


~ RS

[Buttercup McToots]

I've read this thread 4 times...It took me 3 times to follow and understand and the last one just to laugh and feel good...Alone? Who sez I', alone...I found all of you wonderful people who post and discuss all the things that fascinate me...
Gosh, I am so happy...Thank you

[Jaben]

I sometimes imagine that all existence is the result of a lonely God having a Cosmic case of Multiple Personality Disorder.

Thanks RS, I like that.

The point I think SR is trying to make is that you create your reality and that nothing outside of you has ANY control whatsoever in your life.

This notion is what I find difficult to integrate with a multiple player reality. How can both you and your children have complete control over your life if you are separately experiencing a shared reality and have separate free wills? For example, if you sit down with your child and flip a coin which one of you has control over the outcome, heads or tails? If both of you are entirely in control then it wouldn't be possible to have separate intentions.

If you consider the multi world theory of parallel universes, the universe will split into two copies. One with outcome heads and one with tails. So then you could each experience different outcomes. But, that begs the question. Let's say you choose heads and your child chooses tails. The universe splits, now your sitting with the child that either didn't get what they intended or a different child that also intended heads.

If you suppose we do experience separately some form of shared reality then there must be some mechanism to sort out what is experienced; heads or tails, win or lose, live or die, pain or comfort, suffering or bliss. What is this mechanism and where is it? Is it in you, is it in me? Who is the "you" that is in control of "your life"? Maybe there is a great battle of intentions, the strongest, clearest most congruent with all of reality wins by design, maybe there is a separate god consciousness that decides or maybe there is only one reality with one experiencer.

In any case I like to think only the ego desires to take control of life. Maybe the best way to improve your experience of life is to just let your life be as it is, disidentify with the ego and become one with the stillness of which and through which all is experienced. Maybe this way suffering can be overcome and life abundant.

[Sassou]

Ok, here is now a different take on it:

Your spirit is passing through different lifes.

Each life has its purpose and some of its events are a result of your past lifes.
Yes you have in a way created these events.
For example: If you had a conflict with someone in your past life you might meet this spirit again in this life and have difficulties again.

The beauty of this age in time is that we are now able to analyse our relationships better and can resolve them so they don't have to happen again in your next life.

Here is a simple example:

In my past life I was killed by a Lion that bit me in my throat and draged me away.

In this life I was attacked by a dog when I was 11 years old - the dog bit me in my throat.

So I resolved this issue by - getting a dog. A puppy. And I studied Animal communication to overcome my fear from stranges dogs.

Issue resolved.

So yes we do create our own reality.

And you can take charge over it.


And No - Your children are only part of your physical body.

When a child is conceived a different soul enters the cells and gives it life.
Possibly even earlier.(Not sure about that)


Hope this was simple...

Peace and Harmony

Annette Sassou

[cylon]

I've been looking into Subjective Reality as well, and have listened to Steve's podcast on that topic a few times, trying to grasp it. What I find interesting is the amorphous description of "God", basically as someone who was lonely and wanted to create friends so He made us, and by doing the right things, eventually we will be led back to him. This is almsot exactly what I was taught growing up about the Christian God. Now going over this forum, I don't really see the same underlying beliefs of Christianity, there is much open-mindedness and acceptance here for example, but frankly, it's the same story just in more metaphysical clothing, from my perspective. It seems to boil down to us being the toys of a higher consciousness, created for its amusement.

Sometimes when I think of LOA it gives me a sense of personal power, a sense of responsibility. And I have experienced weird things that have led me to not believe in coincidence so much anymore, and it seems to me IM really does work.

When I became an atheist a few years back, part of it was because I was tired of the message from my family and Christianity that I belonged to a higher being and that I was here to please that being and if I did, I would go to heaven. I liked the idea that I wasn't going anywhere when I died, it focused me on the present moment.

Anyway, all these analogies, like it's a multi or single player game, you want to interact with all the different tv screens so you have to multiply yourself to experience them all, are very interesting and help to comprehend it much more, but again, I don't see how it's different from being one of God's creations, sent here for the explicit perpose of bringing him joy, pleasing him... basically we as humans are toys. I don't feel empowered when I think of this, but when I think of IM or LOA, I do.

And if subjective reality is real, can I not change this?

[Megan]

Annette, that was fascinating! I quoted you on another thread:

Cougar Consciousness: The Predators Are Back!

Would love to hear more about your study of animal communication.

Megan

[The Probabilist]

Originally Posted by judge45

The whole concept of subjective reality is so mind bending to me, but at it's core it makes so much sense to me.

Think of objective reality as bending your mind to its will.
And think subjective reality as your mind bending the universe to your will.

Also, Rocket Surgery, I like the way you think and write.

[Joshiepoo3000]

Subjective realists are lost. You think that if a car hits you, and you did not see the car, or know that it hit you, then you have not died. You think that if you did not know you died, then you have not died. Go on and believe that everything is only subjective and that there is no objective reality if you wish. Go ahead and believe that illusions are real and that your imagination is real. But you must also believe that when your imaginations are thoughts, and God is in your thoughts, then God is also real. If you do not wish to believe that any particular religion is real, then you must do your best to never hear about them.

[Megan]

Josh, the transcendent/immanent God duality helps me sort this out.

Without a transcendent Deity/Mind, you end up with Pantheism, and the subjective soup problems you are keying in to, I think.

With a Deity, or Mind that is both transcendent and immanent, we can say that our reality is inescapably subjective, whilst not sinking in the swamp of there being no objective reality.

With only a transcendent Deity/Mind, you get the problems of Fundamentalism.

With only an immanent Deity/Mind, you get the New Age soup pantheism problems.

With a Deity/Mind that is both transcendent and immanent, you can think with both sides of your brain, as it were.

So, I consider my position Panentheist, i.e., Deity/Mind is both transcendent and immanent.

[Rocket Surgery]

Originally Posted by The Probabilist

Think of objective reality as bending your mind to its will.
And think subjective reality as your mind bending the universe to your will.

Also, Rocket Surgery, I like the way you think and write.

Ah like the way YOU think 'n' write, mm-hmmm! Kinda like the way ah likes them french fried taters with mustard on 'em, mm-hmmm. ;-)

Hey, stop feeding my illusory waking ego! I'm YOU, so you're just complimenting yourself, ya big narscissist! Oww!

~ RS

[The Probabilist]

Originally Posted by Rocket Surgery

Ah like the way YOU think 'n' write, mm-hmmm! Kinda like the way ah likes them french fried taters with mustard on 'em, mm-hmmm. ;-)

Hey, stop feeding my illusory waking ego! I'm YOU, so you're just complimenting yourself, ya big narscissist! Oww!

~ RS

How about that humour then? Created by the ego or collective consciousness?

Nevertheless, I'm enjoying the comedian in me!