Celebrating Christmas

[Allerim]

I've noticed Steve mentioning Christmas and taking a break to celebrate Christmas with his family.
As a former Catholic myself, I do feel like a hypocrite celebrating Christmas, especially the present buying. I do see the benefits of setting this day aside to spend with family and close friends that you otherwise might not make time to do.
I suppose I have been surprised to see Steve working with the calendar on this one and I did message him to ask him about this, but he may not have an opportunity to respond.
So I thought I'd find out from as many of you as possible; who among you are non-Christian but still get caught up in the Christmas season? And do you feel conflicted about this?

[mlc82]

Early (pre-4th century AD or so) Christians would have had nothing at all to do with what we now call Christmas- it was originally a celebration for Sol Invictus, the Roman God of the Sun. Later on it was "switched" to be the B-day of Jesus instead, once Christianity was the official religion of Rome.

It wasn't even a Christian holiday in it's origin, so don't feel hypocritical about it if you aren't Christian.

[Trezker]

Most holidays have nothing at all to do with religion. Before religion, they were just based in the cycles of life. Harvest, sun states etc...

I like xmas, or Jul (Yule) as we call it here in Sweden and neighboring countries. I enjoy the gathering of close family, the smells, the songs and feel of it.

Also I like that the stress level is really low. Might sound odd to some people, but in my family it certainly seems like everyone calms down and take things easy when they're doing anything xmas related.

[Michael Chui]

Yule is a somewhat generic pagan festival: Yule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regarding Christmas,

There are a lot of ways to interpret and justify celebrating Christmas. If you're honest and unapologetic for your beliefs, then you don't really have to consider it a celebration of Christ's birth so much as a celebration of the tradition of gift-giving.

I mean, just be honest with yourself about why you want to celebrate it (since you clearly want to), and don't use it as an excuse to be a jerk. For those who don't want to celebrate it, same thing.

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by Trezker

Most holidays have nothing at all to do with religion. Before religion, they were just based in the cycles of life. Harvest, sun states etc...

I like xmas, or Jul (Yule) as we call it here in Sweden and neighboring countries. I enjoy the gathering of close family, the smells, the songs and feel of it.

Also I like that the stress level is really low. Might sound odd to some people, but in my family it certainly seems like everyone calms down and take things easy when they're doing anything xmas related.

I need to move to Sweden!

I follow a Traditional Native American spiritual path myself, but the rest of my blood family are pretty traditional protestants. As such, Christmas was always a big part of our year - and a HUGE stress-fest.

More arguments, spats, fights and ill-feelings have been generated in putting up Christmas trees in my family than any other occasion.

Still, I have always felt that Christmas was more of a cultural, secular event than religious Holiday. Maybe that's why I got off the Christian bus so long ago...

[amixa]

yeah i agree christmas doesnt' really have to do with much of the supposed original reasons we at least think it was made for.
i'm a former catholic.. and definitely refuse to go to church with my family including on christmas and i feel that meh its just an occasion to show someone you think about them by buying them something or making a gesture. i feel like i have to yes, but its just a small tradition i don't think much of.. or feel its as huge as commercials and other people make it out to be.

if anything i've adopted the tradition of the tree and celebrating trees in a more spiritual way -- the cosmic tree.. the tree of life and so on. isn't that why we get christmas trees to begin with? haha i hope so cause i said that in my presentation.. definitely was not my intention to be talking out of my ass

[jokerman]

christmas could be renamed "present day" and no one but annoying christians would give a ****

[lifetimelearner]

when I was younger and catholic it was all about church and giving presents in the name of jesus


now I enjoy the festivity of the holiday -the trees ,lights,music and giftgiving
in the name of my love for my family


my mom could make you feel conflicted !

but I don't anymore

[Tonya]

Oh yes. I agree with jokerman.

What I would like Christmas to be about, being a non-christian, is : Spending time with family, making contact with friends and family you havn't seen all year, lovely tree lights and decorations and the cosyness etc, some nice food but not over-the-top.....NO presents except just a few presents for children....even though that to me is still questionable. I don't see my child being any more deserving of any of the other millions of poor children in the world..so why do western children get totally spoiled at christmas?

The whole thing is a load of pish and when we buy all that 'stuff' we are just playing into the hands of the 'pigs' whose sole purpose in life is to accumulate wealth and cause suffering to poeple they do not give a f**k about.

'Happy Present Day to all the greedy Fockers' !

[Jay Pavlina]

I'm not a Christian, but I enjoy celebrating Christmas because I get to spend time with family. I strongly dislike exchanging gifts though. For the last 3 years, I stopped giving material gifts and instead write letters to people or offer services. It works, but people still buy me gifts and think it's weird that I don't give them presents. Oh well.

[Barcs]

I am a former Catholic as well, but we have a family tradition of celebrating Christmas. It's really just an excuse to get together and exchange gifts, but it does conflict with me for several reasons.

1. The day itself was originally a pagan holiday and was in essence stolen and turned into Christmas. To me, the day itself has very little meaning.

2. The true purpose of the holiday is consumerism and not love. Everybody has to go out and buy all kinds of things to make corporations rich. Anybody who doesn't is frowned upon. I am against this type of mentality.

3. It's great to get together with the family and celebrate, but the whole gift giving thing is too materialistic and doesn't promote the type of thinking that progresses the human race.

I still enjoy the day, but I am conflicted in the whole gift giving thing. I prefer gift giving to be voluntary and not mandatory. It means way more if you surprise somebody on a random day with a gift from your heart, than to just go through the motions and buy everyone things at the same time because you have to.

I'd rather do away with the holiday season, but since it's a family tradition I stick with it.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Barcs

2. The true purpose of the holiday is consumerism and not love. Everybody has to go out and buy all kinds of things to make corporations rich. Anybody who doesn't is frowned upon. I am against this type of mentality.

I will say... I really put some thought into the presents I bought this year. David Sedaris box set for the win.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Barcs

2. The true purpose of the holiday is consumerism and not love. Everybody has to go out and buy all kinds of things to make corporations rich. Anybody who doesn't is frowned upon. I am against this type of mentality.

This is a very questionable point. It is true that the consumerist facet of our society has taken over just about every holiday we have, but it is also partly our fault that we've collectively forgotten many of the little details that have nothing to do with either buying things or saving souls. The true purpose of this holiday, and many others, has never been consumerism nor is it now. It is perfectly possible to celebrate each one without buying a thing.

On the other hand, I find it quite amusing to listen to the media, the church, and the market fight for control over this holiday.

[Barcs]

^You're right. That's not how many people feel, and it's not really their fault. They believe they are celebrating Jesus's birthday. It's true that consumerism took it over, but the main problem is that many people don't see it for what it TRULEY is. It might have deep meanings for some, but nobody notices the fact that it's been precisely engineered to be the day it is... which is a materialistic holiday to boost the economy at the end of the year. In reality nobody knows the true birth date of Jesus, and in a world without this materialistic mentality we wouldn't need to designate a specific day of the year to recognize this. Families could have their own day of the year (whenever it may be) to get together and exchange gifts, or celebrate life, or whatever it is they do. Instead we are forced to conform to a specific designated day. We hear ads non stop about the holiday season and BUY BUY BUY is the primary message. Not love, not joy.

It would really be nice if instead of giving gifts to people we know, we gave gifts to people in need. If everyone around the world did this, it would be a much better place. I asked mostly for charity donations for my gifts this year.

Sorry to sound like a downer, but I'm really not. I have a blast on Christmas with the family, I just take a step back and see the holiday for what it really is. That's all.

[Michael Chui]

In many ways, this comes entirely too late, but I thought this was worth sharing:

Blógünder Schlock » Blog Archive » Christmas with the Taylers

[Victor Vikingr]

Originally Posted by Jay Pavlina

I'm not a Christian, but I enjoy celebrating Christmas because I get to spend time with family. I strongly dislike exchanging gifts though. For the last 3 years, I stopped giving material gifts and instead write letters to people or offer services. It works, but people still buy me gifts and think it's weird that I don't give them presents. Oh well.

I've thought about doing the same thing when people start to 'expect' me to buy them something. We usually give gifts from the whole family, and I've never even been asked to pay. I think that though my intentions are good, that's not how people will see it. I think it'll be seen as an excuse for being greedy.

I find it sad that every time I tell people that Yule (jol in Norwegian) is actually a Pagan celebration, they say: "Well, maybe originally, but nowadays it's because of Jesus!" I think the cause is that it was celebrated last year. And before that, and so on. It's a tradition, and Christianity had to adapt in order to plant its roots, as with other celebrations. People ask me why I don't celebrate summer solstice (Midsummer) as much as winter solstice, but I do. Summer holiday is far longer than the winter one(s).

Originally Posted by Barcs

I still enjoy the day, but I am conflicted in the whole gift giving thing. I prefer gift giving to be voluntary and not mandatory. It means way more if you surprise somebody on a random day with a gift from your heart, than to just go through the motions and buy everyone things at the same time because you have to.

That's what I feel too. Though even before the holiday was taken by Christianity, some people gave each other gifts. At least rich people like earls and kings.

[Travis]

I am Catholic.
(On a side note it seems like there are a lot of former Catholics here)

History of Christmas:
One of the traditions of the Catholic church is to take on the customs of pagans/non-Christan's when they become catholic. When I say that I do not mean individuals, but whole cultures.
Christmas was a pagan holiday celebrated by the Huns in Germany. The Huns put up a decorated tree and exchanged presents to celebrate the day.
The Catholic church (being the rocking religion that it is - ) absorbed this tradition.

Peace and Love

[mlc82]

Originally Posted by Travis

I am Catholic.
(On a side note it seems like there are a lot of former Catholics here)

History of Christmas:
One of the traditions of the Catholic church is to take on the customs of pagans/non-Christan's when they become catholic. When I say that I do not mean individuals, but whole cultures.
Christmas was a pagan holiday celebrated by the Huns in Germany. The Huns put up a decorated tree and exchanged presents to celebrate the day.
The Catholic church (being the rocking religion that it is - ) absorbed this tradition.

Peace and Love

I'm pretty certain it had more to do with the existing Roman holy day of Decemeber 25th (considered the birthdate of Sol Invictus, and I'm pretty sure that one usurped a previous religious celebration) being the reason why the same day was declared Jesus' birthday after Christianity became the main religion in Rome. The Huns definitely didn't celebrate "Christmas". Just about every current Christian holy day stems from either ancient Germanic, Celtic, or Mesopotamian celebrations, I really don't think they adopted much from the Huns.

[carenkh]

I've just been doing a lot of soul-searching this year about what does this time of year mean to me? And I started with, "I don't want it to be about the STUFF." But through my meditation and thoughts, I realized: I like stuff. I love to give gifts - and receive them! This year, I did not allow myself to buy something because "it's that time of year and I need to find something for this person" so that I'd buy something kinda meaningless - I made or got gifts that I knew the other person would really appreciate. It means for my Dad, I made him a crock pot full of boiled peanuts, because I know he loves them. I gave my mom and sister some persimmon preserves - we used to have a persimmon tree in our yard when I was growing up.

No one's forcing me to partake in this - I enjoy it! And it's convenient that a bunch of other people are doing it at the same time - we all have the same time off work. I've seen the Story of Stuff, and I don't want to be solely materialistic - but I do enjoy things! So there were more handmade gifts this year, and I received some gift cards, which I really, really like. I'm NOT a shopper, but I enjoy being able to buy things when I want them.

I loved seeing my oldest son's face when he saw that I had gotten him tickets to see Jeff Dunham this spring - or my youngest, when he met his new kitten!

I love that the days are getting longer now - yay, solstice!! And I enjoy our candles and decorations. I'm not mindlessly celebrating - but neither am I mindlessly discarding what I like, simply to protest consumerism.

[silicon toad2000]

I used to be a something or other in christendom.

The christmas celebration isn't a copy of any particular countries or cultures celebration. Its the time when all cultures were having a feast. All cultures marked this time as it is the winter (in the northern hemisphere) solstice. In the norther hemisphere it was a time in many cultures where excess livestock were killed off for eating or sacrifice so they didn't need to be fed and sheltered over the darkest winter months. Hence the feast before everyone had to lock themselves away for the winter.
Same as easter falls on the spring equinox, it coincides with many other cultures festivals.
In Australia christmas falls on the summer solsitice. My family group are catholic I think on one side and I think anglican on another but im not too sure so they're pretty keen on the whole baby jesus thing. With my friends I celebrate the solstice and I have started doing some research on the midsummer celebrations from other non christian cultures so I can roll them into it.
I always use both equinox and solstices as an excuse for a few good brews with some good buddies.