Buddhism & Power of Now versus Subjective Reality

[Narz]

Reality exists.

Everyone believes it otherwise when told to go walk off a cliff, they would, and they'd fly.

Reality exists.

[ionsteed]

Many of our thinking (reflective) mechanisms have evolved from a survival point of view - they once were worth the trouble and suffering they cause to our everyday life experience. Today, however, nothing much is really about survival, but these mechanisms are still here - working as hard as ever but with situations that in reality are almost meaningless, attributed as really meaningful by the very same function. So, the mechanisms cause us harm by upsetting us for "no reason" and getting us to, at a basic level, prioritate wrong. This is one reason why books as The Power of Now can have so much impact on people. It creates distance to these "thoughts" that once where rational.

[Level1]

This thread is about exactly what I have been pondering the last few days. Coincidence? I THINK not!

I've been putting together a theory along similar lines to many of the poster's with a small twist.

I accept that there are two experiences of reality and that they can complement each other and be adapted to anyones needs. You need to find the balance between the two that best suits your purpose.

I use the the lables "Subjective" (spritual/intangible/formless) and "Objective" (temporal/tangible/form) for them because it simplifies things for me.

Now I could decide that my primary purpose is to seek elightenment and transcendence, become a Buddist monk and immerse myself in spiritual practice. I would live a simple, non material life eating rice and meditating. It sounds peaceful in today's hectic world. The goal might be to explore other planes of consciousness and to reject or marginalize my current objective reality. There are people who have made this their lives. Some teach, write books or maybe just live in cave somewhere.

Or I could recognize that my "thoughts are things" (IM,LoA) and that I take the energy from the subjective universe to manifest things in my objective reality. I could become exceedingly rich or famous and have all the material wealth I could ever use. I could spend my life indulging my every wish without the need to explore my spritual side. I believe that some wealthy people have used the Secret to do just this. They might not feel it necessary to balance it with contribution, sprituality or personal growth.

Either of these extremes are fine. The Universe does not care how you apply the rules. It is only a human based "moral code" that seems to govern guilt, shame or piety.

I think most people would want to walk the path somewhere between the two extremes, finding their sweet spot so to speak.

I have decided that I enjoy my current "physical" reality (objective); i.e. the planet Earth in the Milky Way galaxy, My ego/persona, Male, Skier/Biker/Designer ect. and want to continue to experience this "life" to it's fullest extent. I want to continue to make improvements to it both financialy and materially in order for me to take maximum advantage of my time here. The next physical reality I experience may not have precepts such as "Mountains" and "Snow" so I want to immerse myself in them while I can.

I also want there to be purpose to my life in my objective reality. My goal is to become a "Wealthy philanthropist engaged in environmental conservation projects" Now from a subjective view point this might be a goal that simply feeds my ego/persona and that's true. But it will still increase my joy in experiencing this life now. Does it have any real beneficial effect on a universe that my mind has created, I don't know or care. It will be who I am now.

I also recognize that I am becoming conscious of the subjective side and will tap that energy/intelligence/intuition to achieve the goals/manifestations I want in the objective realm. I will continue to explore how my mind works with the universe, how I am connected to it or how it flows thru me. The more I experience of it's infinite power the better I will be in my next objective reality.


I'm not ready to become an ascetic spiritualist in a cave.

I'm going to walk my path between the two worlds.

[Mike-2]

Originally Posted by ludlow

But are they just inherently contradictory? Or can they be reconciled? If getting caught up with thinking is somehow a distraction from Being, does that mean you have to reject the idea that thought is the basis of reality? Can you believe in some kind of Zen-like "enlightenment" and also believe in The Secret?

You are right, they are contradictory. Like Advaita, Zen has the concept of Form vs. Emptiness, Maya vs. Brahman, Absolute vs. Relative. When we speak of trancending the illusion of separateness, an expansive plane of consciousness, etc., we are speaking about this Absolute reality. But its important to remember that this reality is not some altered state of consciousness -- it is the ground on which all consciousness arises, even very unusual and strange types of consciousness. Zen practice means dropping your sense of a separate self, and realizing Emptiness. LoA says that ordinary reality is created by the mind, but this is only true of Big Mind, Absolute Mind.

The misunderstanding in LoA is that ordinary reality is created by ordinary mind. Realizing that the world is an illusion means that we give up our need to have power over it. Its an illusion -- why chase after it? In chasing after it, we make it real.

The true answer to the question 'What is ultimate reality?' is that there is no answer. The one who asks the question simply goes away. No questioner, no question.

Now, there are many ways to train our ordinary minds to try to conquer ordinary reality and make it do what we want, but this has nothing to do with realizing Emptiness. In fact, it can get in the way. The more mastery we feel over the ordinary world, the more "solid" and ultimate we make it. LoA, like all personal development is about enhancing, supporting and solidifying the separate self -- the questioner, the seeking mind -- and giving it what it wants. And this can be very useful -- you need to have an ego before you can begin to break it down, and realize the illusion.

[Excellent Lodestar]

Originally Posted by Antarananda

A third concept in Advaita is maya, or "that which appears seemingly real". Essentially, the LoA functions in the realm of maya. So, "thoughts creating our reality" is actually quite incorrect, since this so-called "reality" is actually a dream, as understood from the enlightened state (which I described above). Neither this body exists, nor the mind, nor the universe. It is like the Matrix in which stuff exists - all a holographic projection of the Self (meaning the underlying Real substratum beneath all material objects and phenomena).

This is where The Secret or LoA fails. It is focused on desiring and creating, without the necessary discrimination present as a counterbalance to dictate whether what is desired is in one's own highest interest. Instead of accepting the flow of universal life, we seek to change it because of our inherent dissatisfaction with what IS in the universe and our perceived human life.

Add to that the fact that we Created that "dream" that we are so "dissatisfied with"( If you go the Advaita route)
This is where I am these days; trying to reconcile LOA and Advaita(or my understanding of it) I'm not sure it can be done, but as Morpheus said " But if you could go back would you want to?" (back to objective reality) For me, it's no. It's almost laughable. That's not to say I don't still catch myself thinking that way...
Robert Scheinfeld's new book Goes into this very subject and then some; It fried my circuits the first read through and I'm going back in for a second read.BTW, Money is in the Title, but This applies to EVERYTHING
Amazon.com: Busting Loose From the Money Game: Mind-Blowing Strategies for Changing the Rules of a Game You Can't Win: Books: Robert Scheinfeld
I'd like to know what anyone who may have read this book thinks. Like I said he discusses the reasons why LOA can't work(at least all the time) until you realize "none of it" is real

[stellasky]

[QUOTE=ludlow;27263]Here's a conundrum that has arisen for me in reading on these subjects. I'd be enormously grateful for anybody's thoughts.

1. Many Buddhist texts I've read, and also Eckhart Tolle's book The Power of Now, emphasize the point that you are not your thinking mind, and that by learning to quiet the thinking mind, you can access a far more spacious plane of consciousness or Being. This plane transcends the separateness of individual people and is, in some way, the primary "stuff" of reality.

2. Meanwhile, subjective reality as I have understood it so far (along with The Secret, and a lot of personal development stuff that doesn't use the term "subjective reality") seems to suggest that thoughts create reality. What you think about, you create more of. Thought is the primary "stuff" of reality.


An old post, but a good one, here I go, hope ther's someone out there...

ON THOUGHTS:
I think thoughts can instigate change and create possible situations that can affect reality, but I don’t call that process creating “reality” because reality already exists.
I guess I’m a believer of “I am, therefore I think” NOT “I think, therefore I am”.

ON REALITY:
Sometimes it’s Semantics...
The word "Reality" has various meanings, is used colloquially as well, so it's hard to gage what people are actually referring to when speaking about it, at least it's that way for me.

The definition of Reality I've always held true is in an everyday life usuage:
That which is true and real, tangible, differentiating it from what one creates, by their own rules or standards or even psychosis (but that's another topic), in contrast to following Society as a model of the norm. While I feel, think Society is no example of what is real, rather a form among many that people follow or don’t, many use it inaccurately as a barometer of reality.

In its simplistic definition, reality is living in the physical world, where I touch, see, hear, wake up in the same bed and go to the same job as opposed to my abstract otherworldly sense where thoughts, dreams, intuition, imagination, creativity, psychosis, spirituality, multiple universes and a multitude of various possibilities exist. This is not to refute the latter's existence, because I wholly believe in their existence, it's just my way of discerning where and to the extent a concentration mass density is taking up space. It seems too random and chaotic otherwise. While I write this, I'm still not convinced I know what I'm talking about.

"You create your own reality" or “You’re living in your own reality” is as bothersome to me as a Henna painted Madonna seen by some as the originator of religious and spiritual practices long before her reign.

Terms, practices or symbols taken out of context show little honor or respect for the source. The Swastika, a spiritual, benevolent symbol (in many cultures and in Buddhism) will forever be a reminder of darkness and evil as the thought processes of a madman was able to affect reality, but not change it, because reality by definition of the Hindu "Maya" is not the veil of illusion one sees life through...once we all dispel this veil, maybe an adequate definition of reality is possible.

[bellemeadows]

This is one of the most incredible threads I've ever seen. So I just want to take a moment, and say THANK YOU!!!!!

I've studied these concepts all my life, and lived in that borderland where you cross from a sense of whole, completeness, back to your thinking mind. And it is almost impossible to find folks who can go back and forth, weave in and out these spiritual traditions to find that sweet spot of understanding.

So I just wanted to compliment you all, and to let you know that it has meant a lot to me to see there are others who care about this stuff. It is clear to see that you care, not just from the perspective of what can I get from the world, but also from the perspective of how can I show up in this experience in a way that honors my heart and soul, the heart and soul of others, and leads me to my finest truth.

So here is just a little prayer for you:

May the road rise to meet you
May the wind be always at your back
The sun shine warm upon your face
The rains fall soft upon your fields
And until we meet again,
May God hold you in the hollow of his hand.

Thank you very, very much! And many, many, many blessings from Belle,