Is it fair of me to insult religion?

[Akashic_Librarian]

It's no great secret to people on this forum, people in my life, and just anyone who happens to talk to me more than once, that I am highly critical of religion.

But recently I have been wondering; Is that fair of me?

Is it possible that I am being discriminatory?

Hmm...lets explore it shall we?


No religion on the face of the Earth has ever been proven. FACT.

No statistical evidence for God exists. FACT.

The religious masses use this as a REASON to believe. FACT.


Therefore when I say it is nonsense. It's not fact, but it is beyond reasonable doubt.

So we have established that Religion is essentially unprovable. No one can possibly argue against that. It requires faith - it demands it. It does not demand rational inquiry.

Therefore, as a sensible and intelligent human being I believe it is my only choice - If I am going to be honest - to denounce religion as the nonsense I know it to be.

But still...I feel ever so guilty because those lovely religious folk send my atheist ways nothing but understanding and acceptance.

Injustice 1

Injustice 2

Injustice 3 through to 700

Well after that I don't feel so guilty.

But Akashic! Your RUDE. It's one thing being critical in a polite and careful manner and it's quite another being rude!

Is it? Frankly all I see today is the religious groups - mostly Muslim and Christian - making sure, I, as an Atheist and non-believer, should bow down to there ridiculous claims of Monotheism, which they have yet to provide proof for. They ask that I do as they say, don't insult them, don't incite their anger, don't inadvertently insult them, don't blaspheme them, include them in any laws being made, and basically lick their boots, and YET, STILL, I am the one who is persecuted for being intolerant.

It is not rude to tell someone they are stupid, if they truly are.

It is not rude to say that you can be moral without God.

It is not rude to say women are more than cattle. That Muslims are violent, hate mongers. That Christians are ignorami with battered spouse syndrome - basically blaming themselves for the cruelty of God, and expecting me to do the same.

BUT that's not the real religion, you say. Some of them are nice.

No. Ignorance, no matter how good willed it might be, is still ignorance. Violence, no matter who it is in the name of, is still violence. Hate, on the grounds of unfounded principles, is still hate.

This is not a rant, although it may look like it. Read what I say, and please consider what I say, don't just switch off because I am insulting something we are taught is apparently above insult.

[Plato]

I may be missing something, but why do you care what other people think or believe?

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Plato

I may be missing something, but why do you care what other people think or believe?

Because it negatively affects society, and by extension, people who don't believe.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

But recently I have been wondering; Is that fair of me?

Well, it sounds as if you've answered your own question, right? You consider that you are behaving in a fair manner, so you have no intention of changing your ways in the face of others who demand that you change your ways. Of course there are impacts and consequences of that, some of the that feel good and some that don't.

It is not rude to tell someone they are stupid, if they truly are.

I understand that you believe that, and of course you are free to act in accordance with that belief. And telling someone they're stupid here in these forums is considered a personal attack and is against the forum rules; the consequence of breaking that rule is that you would be banned.

You might just want to keep in mind the impacts and consequences of your desire to speak out, being alert and intelligent about having the kind of impact and consequence that you desire in whatever circumstance you find yourself in.

That's fair, isn't it?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

The only issue I ever have with anything you say is how violently you say it. It just seems that you see the person as their beliefs rather than those beliefs being part of the person. You also lump them all into one, knowing full well that not every Muslim is a hate monger and not every Christian is an ignoramus. I just think you could be nicer to the people while hating the religion. But that's just me. I don't really care about religion, but I care about people. I do think it's rude to call people stupid (even if they are ignorant).

I see a difference between denouncing religion (no big deal, go ahead) and what you are doing. But maybe that's just me? And maybe as a darkworker this tactic suits you very well?

[Akashic_Librarian]

Angela, what you say is quite fair and I understand sometimes I overstep the mark - considerably, sometimes.

I don't apologise for it, because I believe it is right, but I will try and respect the rules more.

I believe that wilful ignorance - the typed employed by monotheist and polytheistic religions (to distinguish from Buddhism and others like it, I disagree with them for specific reasons) - is a sign of a weak will, and a soft brain. I know someone is not their beliefs, but they are the person that chose them, and in a way, that is worse.

As a Darkworker-to-be, Satanic appreciator, and all round (what I consider) to be a grounded person (I know, weird right?), then I would say what I am doing is merely a reply in kind to the strong arm tactics of those who would have be believe the unprovable, and reject what we have evidence of.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

Angela, what you say is quite fair and I understand sometimes I overstep the mark - considerably, sometimes.

I don't apologise for it, because I believe it is right, but I will try and respect the rules more.

I'm glad to hear that, because I would miss your posts.

... I would say what I am doing is merely a reply in kind to the strong arm tactics of those who would have be believe the unprovable, and reject what we have evidence of.

I get what you're saying -- you've been strong-armed, so you're strong-arming back, and you feel right in doing so. Yes?

So the question is: is this effective? As an aspiring Darkworker, your main aim is for your own benefit, right? What specific benefit would you like to receive in this regard, and is your behavior an effective way of achieving it? As a grounded person, what is your aim regarding religion and religious people, and in your evaluation, are your actions likely to get you there?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

what I am doing is merely a reply in kind to the strong arm tactics of those who would have be believe the unprovable, and reject what we have evidence of.

But you hate their tactics so much why use the same?

[Akashic_Librarian]

From where I am, I believe the only way I can operationalise my internal feelings is the way I have been acting so far. In time I imagine this will change, corresponding my influence, resources, power etc...etc...

In terms of my goals:

I am interested in seeing those who are religious to understand and fully accept those who don't believe as viable human beings, and those who would see us dead, to accept that we have an equal right to life.

I would also like to see it classed as child abuse to indoctrinate a child into any church and would like to see the national curriculum still represent religion, but treat it like we treat other unprovable facts; As unprovable, not as something that doesn't need proof to be real.

Furthermore I would like to see a total removal of religious benefits in the government system, like being too afraid to say a bad thing. Especially of some of the atrocities done in the name of Allah, and our government is too afraid to say anything because the leaders of this religion, and the fanatics, are violent, and won't listen to reason.

The Catholic church on the other hand look like little girls in comparison.

[Akashic_Librarian]

I am sorry that last post kinda of went weird near the end, I am very tired and not terribly lucid.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Angela

So the question is: is this effective? As an aspiring Darkworker, your main aim is for your own benefit, right? What specific benefit would you like to receive in this regard, and is your behavior an effective way of achieving it? As a grounded person, what is your aim regarding religion and religious people, and in your evaluation, are your actions likely to get you there?

Exactly. ^

AK, what you are doing is actually very lightworker centric. You are basically trying to root out and shine light on people's false beliefs and assumptions. You are at the point of Lightworker syndrome even, as you injure yourself sometimes doing this.

Darkworkers are just the opposite. They love religion because it disempowers people. Darkworkers embrace religions to pit their enemies against one another. They speak for God, and use religion to further their own interests at the expense of others.

[Akashic_Librarian]

I am only trying to root them out because they interfere with my life.

Sorry, but there is nothing Lightworker-ish about it, I just don't like it.

[Ebinesos]

No religion on the face of the Earth has ever been proven. FACT.
That is true. We have seen no evidence of supra nature being. But... how can you disprove a religion that does not worship, but reveres nature? Can you factually prove that it is wrong to hold a low respect for the ocean while at sea? The original greeks did not believe in Poseidon, the believed that the ocean is real, and the fear it could inspire is real, and to respect those things. Its only with the respect of fear that you can deal with it and move forward to fix a line, or tie a sail, or do whatever is necessary to survive.

No statistical evidence for God exists. FACT.
I would like to agree with you here... but what is the contra positive to that? We've received statistical evidence that, in fact, god does not exist?

The religious masses use this as a REASON to believe. FACT.
The reason to believe is that they think they are right. The funny, and confounding aspect of religious acceptance is found in the science of "missiology." Christians have accepted that lights, sounds, and high stress conditions can alter consciousness. They are proving that the emotional/psychological aspects of a person are directly tied to their body. They are not proving the existence of a soul, they are proving that we have a brain that works in a predictable manner, and that this brain is subject to outside influence.

Insult religion till your lungs collapse and your lips turn blue, but its only when you really respect the power it still holds today that you might have the power to do something about it.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

I am only trying to root them out because they interfere with my life.

Sorry, but there is nothing Lightworker-ish about it, I just don't like it.

Darkworkers seek control. You should be learning all you can about religions to use them to control people.

[Angela]

Yup, a Darkworker doesn't care about being understood or accepted. A Darkworker doesn't moan and groan about being afraid to say something for fear of being persecuted by the politically correct (except maybe as a tactic -- he would be acting) and he certainly isn't interested in spreading the concept of people listening to reason. Reason doesn't help the Darkworker; superstition is your friend. Stupidity, hatred and fear are your most powerful tools for exploitation.

And a Darkworker would sure not admit admit a weakness like being tired and not lucid, let alone apologize for it, unless it was a tactic.

Are you sure you want to be a Darkworker, Akashic? Your aims all seem to be for the benefit of others, not just you.

But aside from the DW/LW question, do you think religious people will understand and fully accept you and grant you an equal right to life if you make a habit of insulting them and waging war on them?

Do you feel you will be effective at getting people to listen to reason, or to change laws, by informing them that they are stupid, ignorant, violent, hate-mongers?

To me, it sounds like your actions are a pretty good way to keep getting what you've gotten. What am I not seeing?

[Liveformx64]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

It's no great secret to people on this forum, people in my life, and just anyone who happens to talk to me more than once, that I am highly critical of religion.

But recently I have been wondering; Is that fair of me?

Is it possible that I am being discriminatory?

Hmm...lets explore it shall we?


No religion on the face of the Earth has ever been proven. FACT.

No statistical evidence for God exists. FACT.

The religious masses use this as a REASON to believe. FACT.


Therefore when I say it is nonsense. It's not fact, but it is beyond reasonable doubt.

So we have established that Religion is essentially unprovable. No one can possibly argue against that. It requires faith - it demands it. It does not demand rational inquiry.

Therefore, as a sensible and intelligent human being I believe it is my only choice - If I am going to be honest - to denounce religion as the nonsense I know it to be.

But still...I feel ever so guilty because those lovely religious folk send my atheist ways nothing but understanding and acceptance.

Injustice 1

Injustice 2

Injustice 3 through to 700

Well after that I don't feel so guilty.

But Akashic! Your RUDE. It's one thing being critical in a polite and careful manner and it's quite another being rude!

Is it? Frankly all I see today is the religious groups - mostly Muslim and Christian - making sure, I, as an Atheist and non-believer, should bow down to there ridiculous claims of Monotheism, which they have yet to provide proof for. They ask that I do as they say, don't insult them, don't incite their anger, don't inadvertently insult them, don't blaspheme them, include them in any laws being made, and basically lick their boots, and YET, STILL, I am the one who is persecuted for being intolerant.

It is not rude to tell someone they are stupid, if they truly are.

It is not rude to say that you can be moral without God.

It is not rude to say women are more than cattle. That Muslims are violent, hate mongers. That Christians are ignorami with battered spouse syndrome - basically blaming themselves for the cruelty of God, and expecting me to do the same.

BUT that's not the real religion, you say. Some of them are nice.

No. Ignorance, no matter how good willed it might be, is still ignorance. Violence, no matter who it is in the name of, is still violence. Hate, on the grounds of unfounded principles, is still hate.

This is not a rant, although it may look like it. Read what I say, and please consider what I say, don't just switch off because I am insulting something we are taught is apparently above insult.

Seeing this post, and your usual fare on this site, I can't help but say that you mirror the religious zeal quite a bit, albeit the opposite end of the spectrum. The tone I get from your posts seems to come from a place of frustration and intolerance.

Sure Sure this is no tolerance for idiots, blagh blagh blagh, but you are free to chose your brand of enlightenment just as much as the next person is free to choose bondage. Everyone chooses.

I think the mindset you espouse is just as much a threat to free will as the religious mental midgets you lament about.

If fighting the systems is what you want to do, I would say you are mostly burning your energy in frustration, and pissing your time away on these forums fortifying peoples belief in their religion because they know they wouldn't want to be anything like your cold offensive personality you convey in your posts.

Are you being the change you want to see the world?

I think you are close to a big breakthrough, but can't quite see around the next bend, so keep feeling, and see what happens.

Remember, anytime you feel that frustration look inside yourself, and ask yourself why, instead of putting it on others.

Along side the others here, I don't think you are a "dark worker." Infact I could see you having a rubber-band effect taking you from the false dark where you feel you should be, the whole way over to much lighter unifying work.

[fellowtraveler]

Are you 17 yet?

I think you and Pianoperformer would hit it off quite well, actually. You could put both your tempests into one teapot.

[Akashic_Librarian]

I am 18 in just under two months.

What does that have to do with anything?

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by fellowtraveler

Are you 17 yet?

rofl, I was wondering whether someone would ever throw the age-card on one of the pre-18+ members.

[mercuryrising]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

It's no great secret to people on this forum, people in my life, and just anyone who happens to talk to me more than once, that I am highly critical of religion.

But recently I have been wondering; Is that fair of me?

Is it possible that I am being discriminatory?

Hmm...lets explore it shall we?

I have a question: why should I care what you think?

No religion on the face of the Earth has ever been proven. FACT.

No statistical evidence for God exists. FACT.

The religious masses use this as a REASON to believe. FACT.

Tell me something about suffering. What do you know about hell? Religion exists to help people stop suffering. It is really simple.

That's why you don't get it. All you care about is yourself. Which, by the way, you can't prove exists. FACT.

Therefore when I say it is nonsense. It's not fact, but it is beyond reasonable doubt.

So we have established that Religion is essentially unprovable. No one can possibly argue against that. It requires faith - it demands it. It does not demand rational inquiry.

It is interesting how you demonstrate absolute thinking as you attempt to disprove the possibility of absolutes themselves.

You hold the belief that reality is essentially deterministic. Therefore, something that does not have an obvious 'cause and effect' is not 'real'. In regards to the origin of the universe and us, such as God, how could there be a cause? If there is a cause, then it is not the origin. If there is no cause, then according to you it doesn't exist.

It's like me saying, "What happened before the big bang?"

or

"What were you like before you were born?"

To either question, there is no logical (that is, causal) answer. Shall we assume, then, that there was no big bang or that you were never born?

And I would like a direct response here. From my viewpoint, to ask for a cause to the original cause is an irrational query. You keep reminding me how rational you are: prove it.

BTW, I just argued against you which you stated no one can do.

Therefore, as a sensible and intelligent human being I believe it is my only choice - If I am going to be honest - to denounce religion as the nonsense I know it to be.

Yea, feeding the starving, clothing the naked, giving shelter to the homeless, healing the sick, expecting people to give a **** about someone besides themselves, you're right: total nonsense. There is a difference between just being nice to people and putting the well-being of others before your own. And that is the main impetus of religion.

But Akashic! Your RUDE. It's one thing being critical in a polite and careful manner and it's quite another being rude!

Is it? Frankly all I see today is the religious groups - mostly Muslim and Christian - making sure, I, as an Atheist and non-believer, should bow down to there ridiculous claims of Monotheism, which they have yet to provide proof for.

There are many people who live in secular society with you who are monotheists. In fact, the people who designed a society where people were free to think they way they want were monotheists. So the basis of your claim that you are being forced to believe something and it's all monotheist's fault is unfounded. I think you have your own belief system that you promote, which is just an antithetical version of religion.

I don't make that claim of all atheists. Some of them simply don't care about religion and it doesn't bother them what other people believe. That is actually a rational position to take because they can not change what another person believes: that is their choice.

They ask that I do as they say, don't insult them, don't incite their anger, don't inadvertently insult them, don't blaspheme them, include them in any laws being made, and basically lick their boots, and YET, STILL, I am the one who is persecuted for being intolerant.

Insult, incite, blaspheme: attack, attack, attack. What are you expecting?
I bet if you stop attacking, they won't care.

Basically, you are blaming the victim. It's like saying, "I hit her because she made me mad."

It is not rude to tell someone they are stupid, if they truly are.

Actually, it's an ad hominem argument in reference to someone based on their beliefs. That's a logical fallacy.

People usually put personal attacks to use when they've run out of rebuttals. Why is it that you are so prone to insult people you don't even know without first investigating what they really believe and how they act? That is prejudice.

It is not rude to say that you can be moral without God.

It is not rude to say women are more than cattle. That Muslims are violent, hate mongers. That Christians are ignorami with battered spouse syndrome - basically blaming themselves for the cruelty of God, and expecting me to do the same.


BUT that's not the real religion, you say. Some of them are nice.

No. Ignorance, no matter how good willed it might be, is still ignorance. Violence, no matter who it is in the name of, is still violence. Hate, on the grounds of unfounded principles, is still hate.

What about your hate? What about your opinion of women? What about your ignorance? I think you are obsessed with blaming religion because you don't want to look at yourself.

You are grouping people together-- basically anyone who believes in God-- and saying they are ignorant, violent, hateful, sexist, etc. This kind of generalization shows a lack of exactness in your thinking. That's another logical fallacy.

And while there are certainly good people who don't believe in God, that doesn't make all the people who do believe in God bad, stupid or ignorant. And there is more to faith and God than being moral. The least you could do is read a book on theology to see what you are criticizing.

This is not a rant, although it may look like it. Read what I say, and please consider what I say, don't just switch off because I am insulting something we are taught is apparently above insult.

Do you know what forum you are on? Most people here aren't religious and hardly consider religion above question. Oh, that's right. You don't question it. You just insult.

[Akashic_Librarian]

Religion is a powerful tool to suppress the masses. That is what it is. That is what it was used for originally, and that is what it is used for now.

It keeps the average citizen quiet and calm.

You say all I care about is myself, I consider that a compliment and not an insult.

Only someone who is weak puts others wholly before themselves, self interest is the prime motive, the Golden Rule of existence. If you neglect yourself and your wants and needs then how can you hope to do good to others? Or to do further good to yourself?

Ergo, cogito sum. < < < All that needs to be said.

You argument about cause and effect is ludicrous, everything must have a cause and an effect! It is an immutable idea! For a God to exist something must have made that god, in which case God cannot be what he says he is, therefore he is false.

Yea, feeding the starving, clothing the naked, giving shelter to the homeless, healing the sick, expecting people to give a **** about someone besides themselves

genocide? Homocide? Murder? Wars? Burning? Stoning? Hanging? Censoring? Cursading?

Your right...I will sign my kids up for the day care centre.

People can believe whatever they want privately, because I don't care what they do in there own minds. But as soon as their primitive, irrational beliefs start to have an effect on my life, or aspects of it, then I cannot simply stand down and let it go on because we are too afraid to stand up and say, "Wait, this is complete nonsense!"

Before you insult me, perhaps you should have a look at the terrible things religion has done BEFORE you spout off that holier than thou speel about healing and homelessness.

[fellowtraveler]

Originally Posted by Elrond

rofl, I was wondering whether someone would ever throw the age-card on one of the pre-18+ members.

Done it before, and I'll do it again - and 18 isn't even my limit. The smart ones might have a jet engine but it's running on vapor. Nothing wrong with seeking at any age - with humility. Let life slap 'em around a while, then if they really are smart they'll get it.

One doesn't even have a real personality until they're close to 40.

But let's not hijack this delicious exposition any further...

[Ecce Homo]

Originally Posted by fellowtraveler

One doesn't even have a real personality until they're close to 40.

But let's not hijack this delicious exposition any further...

HEY! I take resemble that remark! I’m 34! People think I’m interesting! Well, at least my mom does!

You crack me up FT. But, you’re right, no more distracting posts...

[Byron]

Religion is a set of maps that human cultures have drawn, pointing to a particular energetic territory (light, source, high vibration, God)

The map is not the territory,
and religion is not God.

There are many flaws with religion, the maps that humans have drawn, but they helped to raise human consciousness out of tribal, and primitive mindsets, and organized energy at a higher level than materials, and served well for the eras that they predominated. There are plenty of clashes when different cultures have divergent, convoluted, and overlapping roads to God, but they were necessary and functioning institutions in their time.

Yes, humans will eventually move to clearer and straighter maps.

Until one knows Source, one cannot criticize these maps with any levity.

[Akashic_Librarian]

That argument suggests though that if don't know how to create Fusion Power then I should not criticise the methodology, even if I can see that methodology is false.

That makes no sense.

[Ecce Homo]

I hate to butt in, but I will.

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

Religion is a powerful tool to suppress the masses. That is what it is. That is what it was used for originally, and that is what it is used for now.

Are you certain about the origins of religion? Are you sure that men like Jesus and Buddha (if they existed at all of course) were only preaching what they preached to suppress the masses?

It keeps the average citizen quiet and calm.

Ironically enough, in America, religious people are the least quiet and calm people I know, especially when it comes to their beliefs.

Only someone who is weak puts others wholly before themselves, self interest is the prime motive, the Golden Rule of existence.

Really? Couldn't it be just as true that only someone who is strong, someone who knows his own value and worth, someone who knows his place in life, can put others "before" himself? Couldn't it also be just as true to believe that only the strong understand that their self interest and the interests of others are one and the same?

If you neglect yourself and your wants and needs then how can you hope to do good to others? Or to do further good to yourself?

Exactly.

Ergo, cogito sum. < < < All that needs to be said.

Or, I Am, therefore I think. How do you say that in Latin?

Also, as Liveformx64 has already pointed out, your posts in this thread have a remarkably fundamentalist religious tone to them, in that they are chock full of absolutist ideas about what people should and should not do. Do you see that Akashic? If so, do you find that interesting?

[The Cloud]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

It is not rude to tell someone they are stupid, if they truly are.

As long as you're willing to take it as well as give it, stupid Darkworker .

[Ebinesos]

Akashic

I dare you to list 10 positives of christianity.


Byron said:
"Yes, humans will eventually move to clearer and straighter maps."

Thats no different that ants moving from zig zagging trails to neat straight lines that we all associate with the industrius ant.

Christianity as we see it today, has a lot of zig zags, and the librarian wants a straight line.

[Plato]

He's banned...

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Plato

He's banned...

He is. After several warnings for trolling, derailing threads, insulting other members and name-calling we went ahead and banned Akashic. It's unfortunate, but sometimes even senior members self-destruct.

At the end of the day, these forums are not the place to troll, or to insult people, or to call names. There are plenty of other places to do that on the internet, if that's someone's goal.

Feel free to continue the thread, but Akashic will not be able to reply back from here on out.