Pet owners are contributing to animal suffering

[Tereza Sykorova]

People who own dogs and cats are indirectly contributing to animal suffering, because they have to buy food for their pets which consists of meat of other animals that had to be killed. This is just an idea I came upon when I was contemplating the consequences of my actions. What do you think about it?

[Dan.Linehan]

Vegan Cat Food - Vegan Dog Food - Vegan Animal Products - VeganCats.com

[Tereza Sykorova]

Thank you for the link. I see other people have been thinking about this problem too. It is still hard for me to believe that cats and dogs can be vegan without suffering. I wonder if it is healthy for them. It still seems very unnatural. But then, it is true that standard dog/cat food often consists of corn and wheat rather than meat.

[ns123]

I guess it's a question of:

1. should I adopt a pet and feed it non vegan food or leave it to die or wait longer in already overcrowded shelter?

2. should I adopt a pet and just feed it non vegan food?

Heck, I didn't know there even was vegan pet food!

So does that mean because I have a dog or a cat, I'm responsible for animal suffering? Or is the suffering I am relieving for my pet enough to even out the karmic debt of feeding it non vegan food?

I dunno, what is better karma? I have no idea, but it gets me tired to think about it. In the end, you only have so much time to ponder so many questions, in the mean time, I'll just get on with my life.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Tereza Sykorova

People who own dogs and cats are indirectly contributing to animal suffering, because they have to buy food for their pets which consists of meat of other animals that had to be killed. This is just an idea I came upon when I was contemplating the consequences of my actions. What do you think about it?

I think that I dislike the word "pet owner" and don't consider myself as one, because I don't "own" my animal roommates.

As for the food issue, yeah, that's really a problem. I already wrote a post about it, but I cannot find it right now. It's a complicated issue.

For example, most of the pet food is made with leftovers from the meat industry, so those animals were not really directly killed to feed the cat.

On the other hand, it's still using the killed animals, especially if you buy non-organic pet food that is probably made with cheap products of factory farming.

But then again, if the cat fed themselves, they would kill animals too, so how immoral is it to do it for them?

Should we rather kill mice and birds instead of cows and chicken?

Or let the cats that aren't able to chase on their own (there are many of those) just die in order not to kill any other animals?

But these cats were bred by us in the first place, and they were prevented from learning how to chase by us too, so isn't it our responsibility to feed them now?

How ethical is it to feed them vegan?

There are so many questions! It's complicated. Honestly, I haven't decided what I think about it yet.

[Tereza Sykorova]

Rose of Cairo:
You are right, I don't like the term "pet owner" either. I used it because I didn't know a better term. You see, by "owner" I meant that you are responsible for feeding the animals and that you have to take care of them, not that you actually own them.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Tereza Sykorova

Rose of Cairo:
You are right, I don't like the term "pet owner" either. I used it because I didn't know a better term. You see, by "owner" I meant that you are responsible for feeding the animals and that you have to take care of them, not that you actually own them.

Ah, yes You're right, the ownership of animals is so much part of the language itself, it's difficult to find an appropriate way to express what we mean. And yes, being responsible for an animal is an ethically difficult task isn't it?

[igmistro]

In nature carnivores eat other animals. I can't see how I would contribute to suffering by feeding my dogs the same thing they would eat anyways. So the only suffering I can directly contribute to is to buy them food that was abused by humans for the sake of profit. That choice, I think, has little to do with pet ownership, per say, and more with my overall personal values. After all I do have a choice to buy "cruelty free" meat or hunt wild game.

Btw, since we spay/neuter most common pets I figure this offsets(mostly anyways) the natural selection vs. privileged status vs. population control arguments.

[Savage]

Dead pets and roadkill are recycled back into pet food as well. The practice is called rendering. There's even a magazine devoted to servicing the industry called Render Magazine.

Seems kind of disgusting to me, but that's how it's been done for years.

If I recall correctly, Purina is one of the companies that uses recycled animals in its pet food. Not sure if they still do that today -- that was something I encountered like 10 years ago.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Dead pets and roadkill are recycled back into pet food as well.

I've read that euthanized pets and other dead animals are recycled back into non-pet animal food too. I mean food for factory farms, to feed those animals that get eaten by humans. Yummm....

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

I've read that euthanized pets and other dead animals are recycled back into non-pet animal food too. I mean food for factory farms, to feed those animals that get eaten by humans. Yummm....

Yup. At least the animal products industry is into recycling.

I think it would be cool if people could get a sticker on their driver's license that says "Render me." Then we can all be recycled into cat food when we die.

[Tereza Sykorova]

This is such a tricky question for me. When I start to think of all the consequences of my actions, it all becomes so interconnected and so complicated and big that I have to give up. And this doesn't just involve the question of pet food.

[Tereza Sykorova]

Oh I have never heard of recycling of dead animals!

[esoterika]

Recycling dead animals seems a little icky to me. I have 2 cats and one of them will only eat canned food and is spoiled rotten. Sometimes I just watch as he devours the juicy, chunky mush, wondering what the hell it really is. So it's actually just like parts of goat, cows, pigs, cats, dogs, birds, roadkill, horses, donkeys, giraffes, monkeys... random dead animal goulash? Maybe some human too?

But dogs and cats are carnivores by nature and I don't think a vegan diet would be healthy for them. It's like if suddenly the only product you can buy in a grocery store is this tasteless, green block that feels like you're eating styrofoam, but it has all your daily nutrients.

[JSB]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

Vegan Cat Food - Vegan Dog Food - Vegan Animal Products - VeganCats.com

Humans are omnivorous and highly adaptable in their diet (just look around the world at what different people eat). Some cultures subsist almost solely on animal products and some on all vegetarian or vegan diets.

Cats and dogs are not the same. Cats especially are carnivorous animals and must eat meat to be healthy. Dogs are slightly more flexible, but feeding a cat a vegan diet is the equivalent of feeding a human nothing but Snickers bars. It's neglectful of the health needs of the animal.

If you have a problem with killing animals for food, than by all means become a vegetarian or a vegan; you as a human have the option of doing so and remaining healthy. If you have a problem with carnivorous animals in general, then you are arguing with reality and you need to take up the issue with God or the Universe or evolution, but don't involve your cat.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by esoterika

So it's actually just like parts of goat, cows, pigs, cats, dogs, birds, roadkill, horses, donkeys, giraffes, monkeys... random dead animal goulash?

Yup. And when they say "chicken" it means something like 4% chicken.... And don't you think it's meat. Your pet eats bones, feet, organs, teeth, feathers... Just everything. Plus genetically modified soy. And sugar (hidden as colorant or conservative) to make it look browner and smell better and to make the pet addicted to the brand. (long term result: overweight and risk of diabetes)

At least you're lucky, in pet food there's no manure afaik. Unlike in factory farm food, where it's allowed.

[SonoranBob]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Dead pets and roadkill are recycled back into pet food as well. The practice is called rendering. There's even a magazine devoted to servicing the industry called Render Magazine.

Seems kind of disgusting to me, but that's how it's been done for years.

Years ago one of my software clients was a rendering company. I used to sit in their office working (this was the days before the Internet, when dinosaurs roamed the earth). They often got phone calls from Farmer Brown to come and pick up the cow that dropped dead over in the north forty. All day long, trucks passed the window with hooved legs sticking up out the back.

One of the systems I wrote for them tracked the grease market. Yes there's a market in grease. When the market is up, rendering companies pay for the grease they pump out of those dumpsters behind restaurants. When the market is down, the restaurants pay them to haul it off.

The owner was always trying to get me to tour the plant. He was proud of his new disemboweling machine, about how it would separate the poop and produce cleaner meat. I always politely declined.

One of this things this gig taught me is that it's amazing what odors you can become acclimated to.

It's a whole different world out there.

--Bob

[jippykid]

They often got phone calls from Farmer Brown to come and pick up the cow that dropped dead over in the north forty.

I have a different perspective on the matter. I see this as efficient use of good meat that might otherwise be wasted. Think of it as an "organ donor" stamp on a cow's license. I'm listed as an organ donor because I like the idea that even though I may have passed on, I will still have a positive influence of the world I've left behind. I have to imagine that if a cow is conscious in any way, it would rather be put to good use instead of being discarded.

Of course this would come with the huge caveat that there would be severe quality assurance measures put into place that would screen this "scrap meat", removing diseased animals from the pipeline and ensuring that the flesh is not rotting.

If the carcasses are handled in this way, and the meat is safe for processing and consumption, I don't see the problem.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I think it would be cool if people could get a sticker on their driver's license that says "Render me." Then we can all be recycled into cat food when we die.

The image just came to me of your dog and cat conspiring to trip you at the top of the stairs or throw the hairdryer into your bathtub, and then looking all innocent when the cops find your "Render me" sticker.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by jippykid

If the carcasses are handled in this way, and the meat is safe for processing and consumption, I don't see the problem.

Hey, that's a good idea after all! We should render our deads to make pet food instead of inhuming them. What a waste, all these coffins in the cemeteries...

[SonoranBob]

Originally Posted by jippykid

I have a different perspective on the matter. I see this as efficient use of good meat that might otherwise be wasted. Think of it as an "organ donor" stamp on a cow's license.

Oh, I agree. I am not saying my rendering company client was doing anything bad. They even had invented a coating for steel made from animal by-products, that prevents corrosion when steel must be stored outdoors. They did useful things, and they ran their business efficiently and ethically. And someone has to do something with Farmer Brown's cow, and road kill, etc (they would get called by the police when someone would run over one of Farmer Brown's cows out on County Line Road, too).

It's one of those "it's a dirty job but someone's got to do it" sorts of things ... right in there with undertakers and the people who scrape bodies off the pavement at accident scenes and lowly medical technicians who have to clean out someone's impacted bowel. Glad they're on the job, glad it's not me. :-)

--Bob

[jippykid]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Hey, that's a good idea after all! We should render our deads to make pet food instead of inhuming them. What a waste, all these coffins in the cemeteries...

Picking up on your sarcasm here

But when you do think about it on that level, how is using a deceased person's perfectly good kidney in a transplant operation any different than using another part of their body for an alternate purpose? Not suggesting that we run out and start digging... that might just cross a line

The way I see the whole vegetarian/meat eater debate is that as long as you are conscious that you're consuming the dead flesh of an animal, and you pause to give thanks to that animal for their contribution, you're doing pretty good. I have issues with the meat industry but I try my best to ensure that I eat meat from animals raised in a humane way.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by jippykid

I have issues with the "meat industry" but I try my best to ensure that I eat meat from animals raised in a humane way.

Picking up on your sarcasm here

[jawillie]

I love my Pug. If that is leading to animal suffering, so be it. Honestly, this just irritates me.

Spanky says, "Sorry for being born, and I LIKE meat." (he really does!!!)

[jippykid]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Picking up on your sarcasm here

There was none intended. Perhaps I misused my quotation marks.

Funny, I used to have a very sarcastic sense of humor, but lately I don't see the value in saying something I don't really mean. Anyone else notice this change as you work toward broader consciousness?

This may be a better topic for a new thread... back to your regularly scheduled programming...

[Iamsuperman]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Picking up on your sarcasm here

haha, I love it.

[mark7]

hmmm, does a wild cat choose to eat grass and berries from trees ?

does a whale choose to eat seaweed instead of living Algae?

all animals have very specific digestive systems,

except humans, who seem to be capable of eating anything that will fit in the mouth.

if you dont want your pet to live very long, have very loose and uncontrollable bowls , stomach pains , Diabetes and generally bad health then by all means change your pets diet to something that fits your moral ethics

rex, oh rex.......... come on boy, look heres some loverly tofoo in your bowl

REX.

REX!!!!! come here now

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by mark7

if you dont want your pet to live very long, have very loose and uncontrollable bowls , stomach pains , Diabetes and generally bad health then by all means change your pets diet to something that fits your moral ethics

[Citation needed] ^


These guys to have vegan pet food products pretty well figured out, Mark:

Ami Cat Vegan Cat Food

Ami Dog Vegan Dog Food

[mark7]

{Citation supplied lol}

Feeding Your Cat♥♥ Know the Basi

Cats don’t eat fruit and vegetables: Cat Nutrition Facts from Feline Future

Is a Vegetarian Diet for Cats Safe? - Associated Content

nutrition.html

Myths About Raw: Are dogs omnivores?

Dogs are Carnivores

i could go on with this all day lol

there are zillions of websites from pet owners clubs, to veterinarian sites with this info on.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by mark7

{Citation supplied lol}

Feeding Your Cat Know the Basi

Cats don’t eat fruit and vegetables: Cat Nutrition Facts from Feline Future

Is a Vegetarian Diet for Cats Safe? - Associated Content

nutrition.html

Myths About Raw: Are dogs omnivores?

Dogs are Carnivores

i could go on with this all day lol

there are zillions of websites from pet owners clubs, to veterinarian sites with this info on.

None of the links above cite any studies. Nor do they support your specific claims that vegan foods will give:

your pet to live very long, have very loose and uncontrollable bowls , stomach pains , Diabetes and generally bad health

Several of the links just seem to be rants.

Most do mention Taurine - which is supplemented into the Vegan foods I linked to.

I don't know for sure either way, but I don't see any evidence to support your specific claims. Do you have personal experience with feeding pets a vegan diet using these foods?