"Enemies of Reason"

[fellowtraveler]

My boy gave me the DVD to watch - he's searching too. It's apparently a 2-part presentation for British tv and focuses mostly on "New Age" type thinking - mostly leaves the trraditional religions out of it. I needed a dose of this to slow me down a little, but even with my limited intellectual capacity I found it to be flawed.

First thing that stuck me was the title. Mysticism is the enemy, to him. It's either science OR spirituality - from my side of things it's both.

He uses a picture of himself on the cover that's a good 10-15 years old. Marketing, I guess. Minor, but not honest.

I took some quick notes - if they are not factually 100%, my apologies.

He states that astrology was invented in the 2nd century A.D. by Ptolemy. This is pure disinformation. And, he focuses on the ridiculous daily horoscopes and equates them to serious study of the subject.

He suggests instead that we should take up astronomy and see the natural "wonders" for ourselves. If they're just balls of burning gas and shiny rocks, what's the wonder?

He goes to a "New Age" fair, where of course most of the vendors are purely about money. And throughout the film he focuses on the strangest-looking people he can find, I assume to boost his notion that such people are whackos.

He denies the notion of subjective truth outright, and says "mystical faith" is fixed, whereas science can evolve. He says spirituality is "anti-science". Wrong again. Anybody here "anti-science"?

He shows dowsers doing badly trying to find bottles of water in coolers. I don't really care about dowsing, but my understanding was that it can work on flowing water due to some kind of static charge being produced by the movement.

He says that science is the "poetry of reality". Really? What need for poetry in a clockwork universe?

He even ridicules the use of leeches in medical practice. LOL...he's at the very least not up to date with his info - see Maggots and Leeches: Old Medicine is New | LiveScience

That's just what I could casually find, and I'm an intellectual bumpkin. A real truth-finder could cut this guy (or at least this presentation of his) to ribbons. He has pretty much lost all credibility with me due to the simplistic tone and outright lies. Maybe it's the difficulty of proving a negative, but he shouldn't resort to dubious methods to attempt it.

Just my opinion, of course.

[supertom]

I loved the part where he was discussing it with his old friend and they rationally talked about how jesus was able to make someone work because the person saw other miracles. HAHA

[fellowtraveler]

Originally Posted by supertom

I loved the part where he was discussing it with his old friend and they rationally talked about how jesus was able to make someone work because the person saw other miracles. HAHA

I don't remember that part specifically, but the "show" is full of contradictions and falsehoods. Just as much snake oil as the "Reverends" on TV begging for money, lol...

[bobrayner]

Originally Posted by fellowtraveler

And, he focuses on the ridiculous daily horoscopes and equates them to serious study of the subject.

Is there some other form of astrology which is credible? Where?

Originally Posted by fellowtraveler

He shows dowsers doing badly trying to find bottles of water in coolers. I don't really care about dowsing, but my understanding was that it can work on flowing water due to some kind of static charge being produced by the movement.

There have been careful tests of dowsing involving flowing water, too. The results were the same: The dowsers failed.

Before the test, dowsers agreed that they could do it; but after failing the test, they suddenly found excuses.

Originally Posted by fellowtraveler

That's just what I could casually find, and I'm an intellectual bumpkin. A real truth-finder could cut this guy (or at least this presentation of his) to ribbons. He has pretty much lost all credibility with me due to the simplistic tone and outright lies. Maybe it's the difficulty of proving a negative, but he shouldn't resort to dubious methods to attempt it.

Could you point out some of the outright lies, please?

[fellowtraveler]

Originally Posted by bobrayner

Is there some other form of astrology which is credible? Where?

The form I studied I found to be rather credible when applied to social dynamics and personality traits. As in anything you'll need to study it for yourself to discern the difference - nothing I can say will enlighten - that would be the fallacy of explaining a complicated subject in one sound bite.

There have been careful tests of dowsing involving flowing water, too. The results were the same: The dowsers failed.
Before the test, dowsers agreed that they could do it; but after failing the test, they suddenly found excuses.

That's fine, but I've seen it work...and not by wild-eyed new-age buffs, but by redneck tobacco-spitting construction people to find water lines in the abscence of proper locating equipment.

Could you point out some of the outright lies, please?

One's enough to prove he lies. Astrology was most definitely not invented by Ptolemy in the second century A.D., and that's basic enough that he couldn't blame it on a lazy fact-checker.

[Ecce Homo]

Originally Posted by fellowtraveler

Anybody here "anti-science"?

I am!

Seriously though, I take your point. I figure that if you have to defend it, then whatever “it” is can’t be the absolute truth. It seems to me that the absolute truth, whatever you call it or if you call it nothing at all (which is still calling it something) is absolutely true with and without apologetics.