The Myth Of Improvement

[darkw0rker]

Hey all,

Well I read something on another website that simply blew my mind! I will send you the link to read because it really makes sense.

The idea is this:

Self improvement is the wrongest approach to life. We are already perfect, we are GOD. Our real self is GOD and therefore perfect already. What we focus on is EGO, which is only an illusion.

Here is the great part:

WE DO NOT NEED TO DO A SINGLE ACTION IN LIFE. All we need to do is to observe the process that god does through us. Therefore, what we need to do is simply to let GOD does his work through us....

here is the link...tell me what you think...Please read it

Life 2.0: The little book of Flow - revised

[raphnix]

It's purely fiction and as what the title said "myth". The scientific approach though is really interesting and that it covers a lot of knowledge to prove such principles.

The idea of EGO and being perfect I think is quite related or simply the same as to the view of man working or aspiring to be perfect.

[Orange]

We are alreaddy perfect but inprovment is just helping us see it.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by darkw0rker

WE DO NOT NEED TO DO A SINGLE ACTION IN LIFE. All we need to do is to observe the process that god does through us. Therefore, what we need to do is simply to let GOD does his work through us....

Kinda what my signature is saying.

Originally Posted by darkw0rker

here is the link...tell me what you think...Please read it

Life 2.0: The little book of Flow - revised

Very very good link/book. The only disagreement I have is he thinks thought is on the cause side of cause & effect. It is on the effect side from my experience.

[Jamie]

There the absolute you, and the relative you. Self-improvement, really, just concerns the relative you (and it cannot apply to the absolute you).

That's how I see it.

[Dannyboy1]

Thank you for the link.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by darkw0rker

Hey all,

Well I read something on another website that simply blew my mind! I will send you the link to read because it really makes sense.

The idea is this:

Self improvement is the wrongest approach to life. We are already perfect, we are GOD. Our real self is GOD and therefore perfect already. What we focus on is EGO, which is only an illusion.

Here is the great part:

WE DO NOT NEED TO DO A SINGLE ACTION IN LIFE. All we need to do is to observe the process that god does through us. Therefore, what we need to do is simply to let GOD does his work through us....

here is the link...tell me what you think...Please read it

Life 2.0: The little book of Flow - revised

How practical is this phylosophy?

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Jamie

There the absolute you, and the relative you. Self-improvement, really, just concerns the relative you (and it cannot apply to the absolute you).

That's how I see it.

What is the difference between the two aspects of self you describe? How do you separate the two?

If the absolute has no relativety, how can you know it exists?

I don't believe we are separate bits and pieces. We are whole human beings but unaware of the whole self. I believe it isn't self improvement we need but simple self awareness. Change will come automatically.

[Eisho]

Originally Posted by Maguru

I don't believe we are separate bits and pieces. We are whole human beings but unaware of the whole self. I believe it isn't self improvement we need but simple self awareness. Change will come automatically.

I agree, self awareness is preferable from a spiritual point of view. But this only affects you as an individual. Your family and friends are better served through self-improvement, the benefits of which you can extend to others. I also think that self-improvement based on self-awareness is crucial.

Cheers,

Eisho

[Marth]

This has been bothering me a while, before reading this. I simply don't understand how conscienceness can exist, & when it can, how it can be improved through our time here I can not concieve an after-life (in the ether or whatever) in my mind that is satisfying. It's very confusing for me.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Eisho

I agree, self awareness is preferable from a spiritual point of view. But this only affects you as an individual. Your family and friends are better served through self-improvement, the benefits of which you can extend to others. I also think that self-improvement based on self-awareness is crucial.

Cheers,

Eisho

I didn't mean self awareness from a spiritual point of view.

I mean self awareness in 'who we are as human beings' right here right now.

Surely the improvement needs to be based on who we are and not who we want to be, or who we should be?

[Jarrod]

Oh look at that on the ground, it is a rock. How wonderful a rock it is, this is truly great.

Maybe I'll rub it a bit. Oh look it is actually covered in a furry moss. Who would have thought!

Maybe I'll polish it a bit more as it looks interesting.

Wow the more I rub it the brighter and brighter it shines. This is such an enjoyable experience and I have something brighter than I ever knew existed.

Sure it was perfect already, I just have to do the work to uncover it.

[Eisho]

Originally Posted by Maguru

Surely the improvement needs to be based on who we are and not who we want to be, or who we should be?

I agree. That is what I was trying to communicate in the last sentence I wrote. Developing harmoniously with your self is key I believe.

Eisho

[gr8tocre8]

I think a more appropriate name for self improvement should be "ego improvement". We cannot improve our true self, as we are already whole, complete and perfect.

Where we get ourselves into trouble is when we enter Planet Earth. Growing up in an imperfect world, watching and learning from it, we start taking on the same imperfections.

Naturally, we want to improve, so we incorrectly call it "self improvement". We THINK that we want to improve, but it's completely flawed thinking. The ego/mind will NEVER be satisfied, no matter how much we try to change. It's a losing battle.

If we can master the art of living in the moment - allowing our higher self to be the dominating force in our lives, we truly have the key to live.

Originally Posted by darkw0rker

Hey all,

Well I read something on another website that simply blew my mind! I will send you the link to read because it really makes sense.

The idea is this:

Self improvement is the wrongest approach to life. We are already perfect, we are GOD. Our real self is GOD and therefore perfect already. What we focus on is EGO, which is only an illusion.

Here is the great part:

WE DO NOT NEED TO DO A SINGLE ACTION IN LIFE. All we need to do is to observe the process that god does through us. Therefore, what we need to do is simply to let GOD does his work through us....

here is the link...tell me what you think...Please read it

Life 2.0: The little book of Flow - revised

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by gr8tocre8

I think a more appropriate name for self improvement should be "ego improvement". We cannot improve our true self, as we are already whole, complete and perfect.

Where we get ourselves into trouble is when we enter Planet Earth. Growing up in an imperfect world, watching and learning from it, we start taking on the same imperfections.

Naturally, we want to improve, so we incorrectly call it "self improvement". We THINK that we want to improve, but it's completely flawed thinking. The ego/mind will NEVER be satisfied, no matter how much we try to change. It's a losing battle.

If we can master the art of living in the moment - allowing our higher self to be the dominating force in our lives, we truly have the key to live.

I truly do not know where these concepts come from. Ego is who we are. We might have been whole, complete and perfect, whatever that means, and we might be again when we are dead, but the reality is we are human beings. perfection does not come into it. We have developed into who we are. Grown into a persona. All of us are a product of our total life experiences, no exceptions.
To deny or ignore this aspect as a separate part to us is living an illusion. It's time to be real and embrace our humanity instead of pretending we are not.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Maguru

What is the difference between the two aspects of self you describe? How do you separate the two?

If the absolute has no relativety, how can you know it exists?

I don't believe we are separate bits and pieces. We are whole human beings but unaware of the whole self.

Oh god; you'll have to forgive me, I've gone right off philosophy ...

Originally Posted by Maguru

I believe it isn't self improvement we need but simple self awareness. Change will come automatically.

... but I quite agree with you Maguru.

Change comes at a natural pace, and we can't make the grass grow any faster, by pulling at it.

Jamie.

[torilink]

Originally Posted by Maguru

I truly do not know where these concepts come from. Ego is who we are. We might have been whole, complete and perfect, whatever that means, and we might be again when we are dead, but the reality is we are human beings. perfection does not come into it. We have developed into who we are. Grown into a persona. All of us are a product of our total life experiences, no exceptions.
To deny or ignore this aspect as a separate part to us is living an illusion. It's time to be real and embrace our humanity instead of pretending we are not.

ego is who/what we come to believe we are. we are not born with these self concepts, we teach them to ourselves and form beliefs about them.

ego is what we believe we are. ultimately it is only an illusion. to be real is to strip away these false self concepts and embrace the truth which underlies it all.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by torilink

ego is what we believe we are. ultimately it is only an illusion. to be real is to strip away these false self concepts and embrace the truth which underlies it all.

Exactly. When I identify with the ego (the concept of the limited self), it’s back to square one, back on the old treadmill of struggling, striving, trying, fearing, hoping and wishing that one day, things may get better; human history repeating itself, over and over and over and over and over and over …. zzzzzz …..

When you point at the sky and say, ‘Look up’, the ego looks at your finger quizzically and says, ‘What does up mean!’

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by torilink

ego is who/what we come to believe we are. we are not born with these self concepts, we teach them to ourselves and form beliefs about them.

ego is what we believe we are. ultimately it is only an illusion. to be real is to strip away these false self concepts and embrace the truth which underlies it all.

What are these 'false concepts' of self? Why hold false concepts of oneself?

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Cantando

Exactly. When I identify with the ego (the concept of the limited self), it’s back to square one, back on the old treadmill of struggling, striving, trying, fearing, hoping and wishing that one day, things may get better; human history repeating itself, over and over and over and over and over and over …. zzzzzz …..

When you point at the sky and say, ‘Look up’, the ego looks at your finger quizzically and says, ‘What does up mean!’

Why is this concept of the limited self a part of you?

[fellowtraveler]

Originally Posted by Maguru

Why is this concept of the limited self a part of you?

I think of mind/body/spirit complex as in the Ra teaching. It's all one thing, all necessary, all equally important. One can do it all. Cool.

Too much deep thinking in here for my taste, but we all start from a different place so it's all good.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Maguru

Why is this concept of the limited self a part of you?

Any concept you create is a part of you, in that it is contained within your consciousness and you experience it.
The conceived self is a valid creation for expression and experience, and enjoying life through the self is fine.

However, if you over-identify with it, or the lower aspects of it, and take it too seriously, then you are limiting, or constricting your beingness. I experience this as separation or being less integrated: ‘I am this particular self, a victim of circumstances, and everything and everyone else is out there, separate and disconnected from me’. I find that quite painful to bear.

However, over the last couple of months I have been realizing more and more that every thing and every one is part of my beingness. The more I let go of the old self, the more joyful, integrated and expanded I feel.

[torilink]

Originally Posted by Maguru

What are these 'false concepts' of self? Why hold false concepts of oneself?

exactly - the self itself is a false concept. you believe yourself to be.... a body, a mind, separate, a man, woman, good, bad, right, wrong, tall,short, fat, thin, angry, happy, lacking, rich, in love, alone, and on and on -

[gr8tocre8]

Originally Posted by Maguru

I truly do not know where these concepts come from. Ego is who we are. We might have been whole, complete and perfect, whatever that means, and we might be again when we are dead, but the reality is we are human beings. perfection does not come into it. We have developed into who we are. Grown into a persona. All of us are a product of our total life experiences, no exceptions.
To deny or ignore this aspect as a separate part to us is living an illusion. It's time to be real and embrace our humanity instead of pretending we are not.

Maguru, I think you're missing the point here - are at least not understanding where people are coming from in this thread when they say that the Ego is not who we are.

You are right - denial of the ego is living an illusion. But I never said anything about denying the Ego. I said that the way to live a fullfilled life is to allow your higher self, which is who you TRULY are, to flow through.

...how do you do that? By completely accepting, embracing and loving everything about you - your dark and your light. How do you embrace it? By not letting it hook you.

If you start doing regular meditation, you will start experiencing who you truly are - and that "you" will start showing up in your daily existence more and more, until you can't even remember the "you" with all the issues, negativity and problems.

Sure, you'll still have issues, negativities and problems (that's part of the human experience, after all), but they will no longer define who you are.

If you want an amazing resource on this concept, I highly recommend you read "The dark side of the light chasers" by Debbie Ford.

In that book, you learn to release all your negative (ego) patterns by accepting, loving and embracing them. Truly coming to terms with your humanity will probably be the most transforming, life-changing event of your (or anyones') lifetime.

I know, because I have done it (and I'm still doing it). That process is ugly, embarrassing, humiliating, deflating, inspiring, beautiful, incredibly fulfilling and just about the best thing that can happen to anyone.

Don't take my word for it though - read the book and do the exercises. I'm confident you'll find what I found.

I wish you the best on your journey.

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by Maguru

I truly do not know where these concepts come from. Ego is who we are. We might have been whole, complete and perfect, whatever that means, and we might be again when we are dead, but the reality is we are human beings. perfection does not come into it. We have developed into who we are. Grown into a persona. All of us are a product of our total life experiences, no exceptions.
To deny or ignore this aspect as a separate part to us is living an illusion. It's time to be real and embrace our humanity instead of pretending we are not.

Then you can't even begin to understand because the ego is controlling you. No one is perfectly "right" about anything. If you think you are, then you should think about how impossible that is. By saying your answer is the only correct answer, you are closing your mind to all possibilities. The drug addict on the corner will tell you many "truths", but you look at them with pity. Why because you see why their thinking is limited, because you are more enlightened. Do you think there is no one more enlightened than you?

Do you see how, if you never open your mind, you will never know?

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Cantando

Any concept you create is a part of you, in that it is contained within your consciousness and you experience it.
The conceived self is a valid creation for expression and experience, and enjoying life through the self is fine.

However, if you over-identify with it, or the lower aspects of it, and take it too seriously, then you are limiting, or constricting your beingness. I experience this as separation or being less integrated: ‘I am this particular self, a victim of circumstances, and everything and everyone else is out there, separate and disconnected from me’. I find that quite painful to bear.

However, over the last couple of months I have been realizing more and more that every thing and every one is part of my beingness. The more I let go of the old self, the more joyful, integrated and expanded I feel.

if someone is aware of having a concept of oneself that is false, then it doesn't make sense to continue with the concept. It's false! You drop it.
However, if we are not aware of a false concept of self then we are it or it doesn't exist.
What if your theory was the other way around? The reality is one of separation and being less integrated and the false concept is in creating an ego that doesn't belong to this world?
From what you are saying, it seems all your theory accomplishes is: changing how the old self feels, and not really changing yourself.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by torilink

exactly - the self itself is a false concept. you believe yourself to be.... a body, a mind, separate, a man, woman, good, bad, right, wrong, tall,short, fat, thin, angry, happy, lacking, rich, in love, alone, and on and on -

The illusion is in believing we are not human beings and everything humanity entails. We are real in the here and now. How can the self be a false concept?

Who you think you are maybe false e.g a belief of I am a "loving person" whilst justifying bashing the **** out of someone. These are the false concepts we hold of ourselves. They are false in that the belief and the action do not correspond.
Through integration, the real self emerges as one. The same on the inside as on the outside.

[Maguru]

Truly coming to terms with your humanity will probably be the most transforming, life-changing event of your (or anyones') lifetime.

I hope so, I've been working on it long enough.

Transformation can only occur from what is. The transformation advocated on this forum is to transform into something that isn't. In other words, to transform into a mythical way of being. It's putting the cart before the horse, so to speak.
The transformation is a process which occurs naturally from life experiences. Being in line with one's own process is taking control to transform in awareness.
Any concept, whether true or false, that takes away from our collective humanity is counter-productive. The concepts divide us rather than unite us. You can see that clearly on this forum. Good luck

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Maguru

The reality is one of separation and being less integrated and the false concept is in creating an ego that doesn't belong to this world?

There lies the basis of the problem. The more I identify with my body and ego mind, the more separated and alienated I feel from everything and everyone around me. That is the cause of suffering. That appears to be reality, and it was for me for many years, but now I experience something different. By letting go of the limited self with its limited beliefs, one will naturally experience an increased sense of being and joy.

An analogy might be pressing a cork down under water. Once you let go, the cork naturally bounces back to the surface, where it should be.

Originally Posted by Maguru

From what you are saying, it seems all your theory accomplishes is: changing how the old self feels, and not really changing yourself.

For me, it is not a theory – it is a deep realization that I am not just an ego/mind/body ferreting away, trying to survive. It is a state of beingness and joy where I feel more at one with everything I experience, where there is less division between ‘inside’ and ‘outside’, between ‘you’ and ‘me’. It goes beyond the cerebral. It is totally experiential and it is difficult to convey in words.

What does a mango taste like?

I still enjoy life through my ego/mind/body but my personal experiences confirm more and more what the Buddha, Christ and others have taught about these things.

Perhaps, it is a path you do not wish to embark upon. It's your choice.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Dannyboy1

Then you can't even begin to understand because the ego is controlling you. No one is perfectly "right" about anything. If you think you are, then you should think about how impossible that is. By saying your answer is the only correct answer, you are closing your mind to all possibilities. The drug addict on the corner will tell you many "truths", but you look at them with pity. Why because you see why their thinking is limited, because you are more enlightened. Do you think there is no one more enlightened than you?

Do you see how, if you never open your mind, you will never know?

Hi Dannyboy, I don't think I have expressed myself very well. In fact I now know that I haven't. Thankyou for bringing it to my attention. I suppose I think no one would be interested in my personal life and am reluctant to speak about it. However, I have decided to risk it a second time, even though the first time a couple of weeks ago, was greeted with the utmost insensitivity.

Here goes : I have actually experienced a fragmented ego. It is difficult to describe but my insides fell apart, so to speak. My world fell apart. My process began. Everything I had believed to be right was wrong and vise versa. It was very complex and very confusing. As well as agonising.

I realised I had changed over many years without awareness of the changes. I would say my experiences changed my way of being, (as I believe is true for everyone), but it was not a conscious decision.

My ego was the sense of self, held mainly in my subconscious, that was not serving me. My adult life had been an up hill struggle and I could no longer maintain this sense of myself and the world around me.

My ego was full of harmful beliefs both true and false. These beliefs were concerning who I truly was and who I was trying to be, based on my view of the world. I know what it is like to have the ego control me. It was very difficult to change it.

You could say that I have replaced one ego for another and that is true of so many 'enlightened' people. However, the ego I am now is no longer unconscious. I am aware of who I am. I cannot be other than who I am based on my experiences as a human being. Without the conscious knowing of who I am, who am I?

I do not wish to be an imaginary self. I do not wish to live in a fantasy world. I do not wish to de-humanize myself in any way. I would say that I have come full circle and have finally embraced my humanity.

When ego is seen as separate or when there is unawareness of ego, then control of one's own life is restricted. Knowing ego is knowing self. Knowing ego opens the way to change consciously. This is all I was really trying to get across and I did it badly. Maybe this is no clearer but I tried. regards.