The Truth About Souls, death and Religion

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

Let me ask you, is 'god' all knowing?

Or to say it clearer, can infinity know itself?

You are thinking in impersonal terms. And yes, God is All Knowing.

[DaveTyler]

To make it simple InfiniteThoughts God is EVERYTHING, including you, so when your ego says "i am god" its right but at the same time wrong:P

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Lychee

I really do not understand it when people say that they are gods. I do not find it unfathomable because of societal conditioning but because of reason. A God is being who is infinite, has no limits. God is basically someone who is everything we are not. God is eternal, all-knowing, He is the Perfect Ideal. How can we humans ever hope to become the Perfect Ideal if we ourselves are not perfect? Since when do we control the laws of the universe? How come we "gods" have cancers and diseases? It's because we aren't gods. Religion (the correct religion anyway) acts as a guide to align yourself to law. Saying that it is useless is a bias towards the aversive attitude toward religion today.

Well said, Lychee. I agree totally.
So many of us are caught up in our own pride and arrogance, thinking we can be as good as God. If we look at ourselves truthfully, there is so little we actually control, beyond the small, everyday decisions we make. When a 10 ton truck hits you at 70 mph, how do you control that?

A lot of the views expressed above are just re-hashed, recycled (get it!) ideas of Pantheism and Panentheism. Been there, tried it, got the T shirt. Sorry, not for me. Who's to say God can't be separate from his own creation, or from consciousness as we know it?

When you're at the brink of desolation
Staring down into the abyss
When your're stripped of all you think you are,
Of all your pride and bravura,
When you are left, cold, shivering and alone,
With Old Nick breathing down your neck
Then, you may understand what the soul truly is
And how weak and powerless you really are
But will it be too late?
Who will help you then?

Unless you have experienced this, don't talk to me about gods, infinity and cosmic consciouness!!

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

To make it simple InfiniteThoughts God is EVERYTHING, including you, so when your ego says "i am god" its right but at the same time wrong:P

So we are on the same page.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Cantando

When a 10 ton truck hits you at 70 mph, how do you control that?

Cantando
Why would I choose from the uncountable multi'verses layed out in front of me, stretching to infinity......to get hit by a 10 ton truck going 70 mph?

Originally Posted by Cantando

Unless you have experienced this, don't talk to me about gods, infinity and cosmic consciouness!!

Seems a bit closed minded, don't you think?

[Lychee]

To make it simple InfiniteThoughts God is EVERYTHING, including you, so when your ego says "i am god" its right but at the same time wrong:P

I cannot be God because I am not the Perfect Ideal. Look at the condition of humanity today. Being God and being connected to God are two different things. We are not the Power. Our use of the Power does not make us the source.

So many of us are caught up in our own pride and arrogance, thinking we can be as good as God. If we look at ourselves truthfully, there is so little we actually control, beyond the small, everyday decisions we make. When a 10 ton truck hits you at 70 mph, how do you control that?

A lot of the views expressed above are just re-hashed, recycled (get it!) ideas of Pantheism and Panentheism. Been there, tried it, got the T shirt. Sorry, not for me. Who's to say God can't be separate from his own creation, or from consciousness as we know it?

Yes. Many religious scriptures affirm the idea you mentioned last. We truly are powerless. We did not give ourselves life, we do not give death, we don't control the turning of the earth, we don't control the burning of the sun. The list of our limitations is limitless.

Pantheism/Panetheism was heavily practiced thousands of years before. People worshiped the sun, the planets, animals, etc. How can anyone say that is God? Will you really call a monkey God? How can humans do cruel experimentations on God? It's ridiculous and defies the definition of God.

No one in the history of the human race could do the things that God can. People tried so hard to study alchemy to remain immortal! Would such a limitation be applicable to God? No, because God is already immortal. No one can cook up and earth out of nowhere. No one can create another human being from scratch. We barely understand the human personality and emotions - would that ever be a hindrance to God? God has no limits or hindrances! lol

[Liara Covert]

Some people think the soul is merely the spiritual part of a human being, be it the moral aspect, that believed to survive death and be subject to happiness or misery in a life to come.

If its the underlying principle of life, feeling, thought, and action in us, and its a distinct entity separate from the physical body, then why do people fight against their instinct or better judgement (conscience) which are associated with the spirit or soul? Rather than merge with your core, would you prefer promote conflict and question what your inner voice tells you?

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

Why would I choose from the uncountable multi'verses layed out in front of me, stretching to infinity......to get hit by a 10 ton truck going 70 mph?

Well, obviously, no one in their right mind would deliberately choose to be hit by a truck. What I meant was - we go about our daily lives, often thinking we have things under control (at least the 'smarter' ones amongst us anyway) - job, money, relationships, when, suddenly, WHAM, we are hit by something totally out of the blue - an accident, illness, etc, and think, 'Where the hell did that come from?'. Personally, I don't think any of us are big or powerful, no matter how many universes or multiverses we imagine we have tapped into.

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

Originally Posted by Cantando
Unless you have experienced this, don't talk to me about gods, infinity and cosmic consciouness!!

Seems a bit closed minded, don't you think?

Yes, sorry about that, just trying to provoke a response!

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Cantando

What I meant was - we go about our daily lives, often thinking we have things under control (at least the 'smarter' ones amongst us anyway) - job, money, relationships, when, suddenly, WHAM, we are hit by something totally out of the blue - an accident, illness, etc, and think, 'Where the hell did that come from?'.

When things are under control, we get bored. When we get bored, we want some fun in our lives. Fun manifests as a learning experience. And if you already control it, you aren't going to learn from it. Thus, the experience must be something you don't control, even if you do control it.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

When things are under control, we get bored. When we get bored, we want some fun in our lives. Fun manifests as a learning experience. And if you already control it, you aren't going to learn from it. Thus, the experience must be something you don't control, even if you do control it.

I agree with that Michael. Taking on unexpected challenges can be fun, learning and creative, but what if it is a plain, nasty experience? If I am suddenly attacked in the street, for example, it is not a nice experience. OK, I learn to be more careful, but I can't quite see where the fun is!

[Michael Chui]

It doesn't have to be a nice experience for it to be an educational one. I would personally welcome such an experience, because I have no idea whether or not I could actually handle it. I certainly have loads of theory that tell me I could do it, and I've had the training to deal with an attacker, but can I apply it in the heat of the moment, or am I going to panic and break? I can't foresee that. Whatever the outcome, it signals what I am ignorant of.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Cantando

.....suddenly, WHAM, we are hit by something totally out of the blue - an accident, illness, etc, and think, 'Where the hell did that come from?'.

That's my point.

When on is aware enough, then that WHAM doesn't occur.

Is this how my life goes? Absolutely.

When things happen, I can trace it back to the exact thought that brought it into my Holographic universe.

[Cantando]

I am happy that you and Michael feel strong and confident enough to take on all-comers and it give it your best shot.
But, is it not conceivable, and within the realms of possibly, that something could happen to you, for which you are not prepared, something so horrific and overpowering, that you could not fathom or comprehend it, let alone fight it?
If you were old and infirm, for example, losing your memory and mental faculties, and were subjected to a vicious assault, would you say, "I welcome this experience. Not only is it fun, but it's educational as well! Heck of a deal!"

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Cantando

But, is it not conceivable, and within the realms of possibly, that something could happen to you, for which you are not prepared, something so horrific and overpowering, that you could not fathom or comprehend it, let alone fight it?

When I was younger and less aware? Absolutely.

Now, I fully know what I am. An infinite being, that every second of the day, chooses any slice from the mulitverses that I want to experience.

Again. So then would I choose a horrific and overpowering experience?

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

Now, I fully know what I am. An infinite being, that every second of the day, chooses any slice from the mulitverses that I want to experience.

Hmmm ... what are you choosing exactly - just general, life direction stuff, or everything that affects you? Are you fully conscious of each heart beat, and breath you take, and choosing whether it should happen or not?

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Cantando

Hmmm ... what are you choosing exactly - just general, life direction stuff, or everything that affects you? Are you fully conscious of each heart beat, and breath you take, and choosing whether it should happen or not?

General life direction stuff.

Other parts of my awareness take care of the number of breaths I take, so that I can fully focus.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Cantando

I am happy that you and Michael feel strong and confident enough to take on all-comers and it give it your best shot.

I don't feel this. This is why I'm not taking on all comers. For instance, I've been extremely skeptical of my own ability to teach a class, so I'm very hesitant about applying to Teach for America, because I'm not convinced I could handle it.

Originally Posted by Cantando

But, is it not conceivable, and within the realms of possibly, that something could happen to you, for which you are not prepared, something so horrific and overpowering, that you could not fathom or comprehend it, let alone fight it?

Happens every day. But I see no reason to magnify and dramatize the enormity of life's difficulties such that I can gain nothing from experiencing them. I'd rather choose to learn, rather than choose to become a blubbering idiot crying for mommy.

You choose your reaction to what life throws at you, whether it be nasty or nice.

Terrible things happen daily, hourly. And yet, nothing is so monstrous as to be incomprehensible. It was difficult, thousands of years ago, to understand why storms would boil out of the desert and flood the hot, dry region with lightning and water; but we've begun to understand why now. Why do the stars' position remain fixed in the sky? Why do the clouds glow with an eerie, yet beautiful, color in that short time before dusk? Why do people kill one another? Why do people stand by when others are being abused and tortured? Why do beaten wives go back to their husbands? Why do children bully one another? Why do we torture and humiliate others? Why do we process and systematize a genocide? Why do former neighbors take up machetes and slice us to pieces? Why do we rape, pillage, plunder, nuke?

It can be understood. It is being understood. And the process of understanding is what education is.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

You choose your reaction to what life throws at you, whether it be nasty or nice.

Mike.
Why don't you do what I said above.

"I fully know what I am. An infinite being, that every second of the day, chooses any slice from the mulitverses that I want to experience."

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

Mike.
Why don't you do what I said above.

"I fully know what I am. An infinite being, that every second of the day, chooses any slice from the mulitverses that I want to experience."

Because I change how I explain something depending on the beliefs of the person I'm addressing.

It's ultimately about choice. In a diminished capacity, choice typically involves reaction. As one's awareness grows, choice is becomes more proactive. At the point of total awareness, choice is never a reaction.

[Andrew Brunelle]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

Because I change how I explain something depending on the beliefs of the person I'm addressing.

It's ultimately about choice. In a diminished capacity, choice typically involves reaction. As one's awareness grows, choice is becomes more proactive. At the point of total awareness, choice is never a reaction.

That is a good point. If you have total awareness, you have to be proactive because you pretty much know everything. If you are aware of everything, you no longer need to react because you know what is coming. If you are an infinite being, capable of drawing on infinite experiences, then gaining total awareness of this infinity would be something that will move you closer to becoming more proactive and no longer questioning or worrying about unforeseen events, like a car accident.

Michael, I find your insights very intriguing and moving towards complete understanding and awareness is something we all should be striving for to understand our true nature. Part of it is intuition, an internal knowing about having a soul or spirit, or whatever you wish to label it as, but actually feeling that this is definitely there, that there is something more than your body, that is worth more than any intellectual pursuit as it does not need to be proven, as you simply feel it. This is, of course, my humble opinion and how I choose to relate to the world. I did not choose this belief system, it chose me. It is how I have always felt, without anyone telling me for or against this belief system.

Some people may be fearful of death, and as George Carlin once said, "It's when we find out where we go." I'm very curious as to where I go, but I do know for sure I will go somewhere, the fundamental part of my being. Just a few thoughts...

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

Because I change how I explain something depending on the beliefs of the person I'm addressing.

It's ultimately about choice. In a diminished capacity, choice typically involves reaction. As one's awareness grows, choice is becomes more proactive. At the point of total awareness, choice is never a reaction.

So you're agreeing with me that you are "An infinite being, that every second of the day, chooses any slice from the mulitverses that you want to experience." ?

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

So you're agreeing with me that you are "An infinite being, that every second of the day, chooses any slice from the mulitverses that you want to experience." ?

Yes. [*fills up required buffer to post message*]

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

I don't feel this. This is why I'm not taking on all comers. For instance, I've been extremely skeptical of my own ability to teach a class, so I'm very hesitant about applying to Teach for America, because I'm not convinced I could handle it.



Happens every day. But I see no reason to magnify and dramatize the enormity of life's difficulties such that I can gain nothing from experiencing them. I'd rather choose to learn, rather than choose to become a blubbering idiot crying for mommy.

You choose your reaction to what life throws at you, whether it be nasty or nice.

Terrible things happen daily, hourly. And yet, nothing is so monstrous as to be incomprehensible. It was difficult, thousands of years ago, to understand why storms would boil out of the desert and flood the hot, dry region with lightning and water; but we've begun to understand why now. Why do the stars' position remain fixed in the sky? Why do the clouds glow with an eerie, yet beautiful, color in that short time before dusk? Why do people kill one another? Why do people stand by when others are being abused and tortured? Why do beaten wives go back to their husbands? Why do children bully one another? Why do we torture and humiliate others? Why do we process and systematize a genocide? Why do former neighbors take up machetes and slice us to pieces? Why do we rape, pillage, plunder, nuke?

It can be understood. It is being understood. And the process of understanding is what education is.

Thanks for the Education lesson, but all I was after was a simple answer to my original question, where is the fun in having an overwhelming, horrific experience?
I am not talking about the 'post-match analysis/reaction'. I am talking about the moment of impact and the incurring of pain. You said that you may be able to repel attackers, in the street attack example. Well, that would not have been an overwhelming experience then, would it?
OK, let's up the ante a bit: you are attacked by 50 armed thugs who leave you with your head kicked in, your teeth kicked out, choking to death on your own blood, in excruciating agony, while your children are tortured to death in front of you (sorry for being so graphic ).

I repeat : where, exactly would the F-U-N be in that?
Are you seriously saying you would welcome such an experience?
Your exact words were:

When we get bored, we want some fun in our lives. Fun manifests as a learning experience. And if you already control it, you aren't going to learn from it. Thus, the experience must be something you don't control, even if you do control it.

And on your following post:

It doesn't have to be a nice experience for it to be an educational one. I would personally welcome such an experience, because I have no idea whether or not I could actually handle it.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Cantando

OK, let's up the ante a bit: you are attacked by 50 armed thugs who leave you with your head kicked in, your teeth kicked out, choking to death on your own blood, in excruciating agony, while your children are tortured to death in front of you (sorry for being so graphic ).

I repeat : where, exactly would the F-U-N be in that?
Are you seriously saying you would welcome such an experience?

Yes, I would welcome it. A person doesn't know how they'll react to a difficult situation until they experience it, and as such, even a lethal and/or torturous experience is an educational one. It is, at the utmost least, a process of self-discovery. Is there something about yourself that you're afraid to find out about?

It's not post-match; it's immediate. You should always be taking in the information that you have at hand to understand the situation influencing you, and thus attempt to make sense of what is happening to you, and from that knowledge create choices on what you will do next.

I'm going to New York this summer. My parents have been telling me to be careful since they found out. That crime is high and tourists are easy targets, etc., the usual. So, perhaps I'll receive this learning experience sooner than I really want it. Okay, I welcome it. If this body survives it, then it has more to do. If it doesn't, then I won't use it anymore; that'll be a different learning experience.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

Yes, I would welcome it. A person doesn't know how they'll react to a difficult situation until they experience it, and as such, even a lethal and/or torturous experience is an educational one. It is, at the utmost least, a process of self-discovery. Is there something about yourself that you're afraid to find out about?

No, there is not something about myself that I am afraid to find out about. In fact quite the opposite - I am constantly learning and finding out more about myself every day (sorry for not giving you a reaction there). As with anyone, I have had some painful experiences, but I still can't see the fun in experiencing pain. Yes, if there is no choice and it happens, then it happens, but to welcome it and think it fun - you have really lost me there. Again, I sense some contradiction here. Would you welcome it to the extent that you would continue to lie there and take it? You suggested in an earlier post that you may have the strength to repel the attackers, so to that extent you would not be welcoming it. To be frank, I don't believe you when you say you would welcome it, so I think we had better leave it there.

[Michael Chui]

If I didn't welcome pain as a learning experience, I wouldn't be talking to you, because I'd be dead. You say, "if there is no choice," but there is always a choice and one of the most critical choices is how you react to situations that are presented to you. The most basic and fundamental choice of all is the attitude with which you meet a new experience.

Obviously, you have a different idea of what it means to welcome an experience than I do; when faced with a wall, choosing to climb it is just as welcoming of it, if not more, as sitting there and staring at it. You don't reject an experience when it's presented to you; you welcome it and react to it. If you react by lying around mindlessly, then that's your perogative, but I would prefer to attempt to surmount the obstacle by understanding it. On the other hand, if you start screaming, "This isn't happening to me!", then I would say you have a problem, because you're not welcoming the experience at all; you're reducing your ability to understand by denial and rejection.

If 50 thugs are beating me to a pulp, I want to know why. Most likely, I'll want to get out of there: I am a bit attached to my life. But maybe I don't want to. Maybe I've chosen to be kicked to death as a sacrifice. Maybe escape would be a really bad thing. But I'd have to understand why before I could make that choice. Maybe I want to take down as many as I could with me. In that case, I'd fight back, if I could. Or maybe I don't; in which case I wouldn't. But I'd need to know why. Then I'd have choice.

As for fun, getting kicked over and over wouldn't be fun, because that's happened to me before. It would be painful, but it would also be slightly boring. I've been kicked plenty of times in my life; it's hard to imagine someone coming up with a novel method of kicking me that would be interesting. I've been kicked three times in the unprotected groin, once so hard that blocking it put me on the ground, and hell, I've been landed on by a flying kick, though I guess that doesn't really count as a kick. Then again, pain is always interesting, so that'd keep the experience fresh. But it'd be fun to see how long I could last, to play psychological games with the thugs, to see whether or not I could slip at just the right moment and cause them to hit one another, or whatever. It would certainly be fun to infuriate them by smiling jauntily with a couple missing teeth, or by sticking my tongue out at them, or to show off the rib they've exposed as if I were trying to fashion a woman out of it. Well, that'd only be fun to me; it'd be really hard to explain it to them while getting kicked in the face. Maybe I could convince them to stop long enough to let me go through the motions.

But I don't know for sure until I actually experience it. Maybe none of that would happen. Probably not, in fact. But it'd sure be interesting to find out.

[videobroker]

Given the huge amount of people and the variety of our brains, egos, ID's, super-egos and levels of personal and spiritual development, it is no wonder that there is a religion for every group, every tribe and every person.

There are also cults, philosophies, etc. So there isn't just one religion for everyone because everyone is different.

To some people atheism is what makes them comfortable.To others, it's Christianity, yet to others it's yoga, or whatever.

In reality, no one will really knows the truth until after death. After death, reality sets in. If there is NOTHING, it's all over. We're just biological beings. If there IS, then, we will have some thinking to do with our spiritual bodies. Some religions believe that this is the time to prepare to meet God and not after we've died.

The saying: "To each their own!" applies.