germs vs plastic toxins

[angelairene]

I was reading an article about the toxins released from some plastics at about 150 degrees F. Isnt that about the temp needed to kill germs?
So now I am stumped as to whether its more important to kill germs or avoid these toxins when I am washing dishes everyday.
(I dont use a microwave, but sometimes heat convienence meals in the oven.)
are the toxins released only at that temp, so serving a cold cup to my kid is safe? I have become very concerned.
We have become a plastic society, scared to death of germs. I think if I had to choose one over the other I would definately choose germs, since germs have been around longer than we have; it is a natural part of life.
These petroleum based plastics and stuff is what's scary to me.
I was wondering if anyone knew more about this. and does anyone know a good place to get non plastic sippy cups for kids?

[pkeod]

If you're working with food-grade plastics then you have nothing to worry about toxins being released. There was a fake article circulated on the internet a long time ago that talked about how dangerous it is to refill bottled water containers because they supposedly release toxins... but that's bunk!

Wash your dishes! Wash your bottled water containers too before you reuse them, and keep them clean. Only microwave food in microwave safe containers.

CHEC Lists: Plastics: What Do Those Numbers Mean?

[SonoranBob]

Originally Posted by angelairene

I was reading an article about the toxins released from some plastics at about 150 degrees F. Isnt that about the temp needed to kill germs?
So now I am stumped as to whether its more important to kill germs or avoid these toxins when I am washing dishes everyday.
(I dont use a microwave, but sometimes heat convienence meals in the oven.)
are the toxins released only at that temp, so serving a cold cup to my kid is safe? I have become very concerned.

Hm. As this isn't relevant to spirituality really, it probably belongs in a different forum. But I'll bite, because my wife died of environmental illness so I know quite a bit more about these things than I really care to.

You have probably been reading about pthalates. They are used to soften plastic. They can leach from some plastics at room temperature. In general, the softer the plastic, the more problematic the leaching. High temps accelerates that, but the absence of high temps doesn't necessarily eliminate leaching.

So, you need to be more concerned about bottled water and soda and microwaveable foods than your really do about your typical plastic dishware. That stuff is relatively stable, with the possible exception of Tupperware and its various knockoffs. But plastic bowls and plates, I wouldn't worry about so much. I'm too old to remember much about sippy cups and the like but I seem to recall that stuff was pretty hard plastic as well. I think the current concerns probably apply more to flexible feeding bottles and the like.

For purposes of strict avoidance of all toxins, we stuck with ceramics, ceramic covered iron cookware, glassware, and generally avoided plastic and metal of any kind. For the few prepared foods we ate, we would remove them from their plastic pouches or shrink wrap and cook them on ceramic plates. The cooking instructions for microwaveable foods is for convenience, they are not gospel. It's generally hazardous to have cooking foods in contact with plastic, IMO, especially soft plastic and film.

People like my wife are the canaries in the mine, so to speak, when it comes to toxins. Most of us have working blood-brain barriers and functional detox pathways and our enzymes and hormones are not fluctuating wildly, so we can expose ourselves to all this kind of stuff without apparent consequence. I often wonder, though, whether it's just that most of us don't connect the dots. Some day when you're 55 or 65 you wake up with palsy or Alzheimer's or some bizarre left-handed jungle rot and assume it's sh_t falling from the sky. The truth is, I'd bet that a least half the time it's just that your body burden of some toxin or other has simply reached a tipping point.

As for killing germs. In my view, killing germs on dishes is more a function of washing them promptly and not leaving them laying around with food residue for any length of time. It amazes me how often people wash something in scalding water, using the Washcloth That Time Forgot, or setting them down to dry in a dish rack or on a counter that is itself a repository for bacteria.

In any case I don't see a fundamental conflict here -- use ceramics and glassware, run them through a nice hot dishwasher promptly, and you shouldn't have to worry about germs or toxins. If you have toddlers it becomes more difficult as you can't give them glassware or other breakables, but at least you can avoid soft, flexible plastics and perhaps hand wash them in less hot water.

I'm with you, I'd rather risk bacteria than toxins. There was even a study not long ago that drew the conclusion that children who live in an absolutely sterile and "sanitary" environment end up with weaker or disregulated immune systems and can be more prone to allergies. On the other hand many toxins just build and build in the body and children are particularly vulnerable to them -- and society is much less knowledgeable and careful about toxins than about germs.

--Bob