Is emotional pain an illusion?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Jarrod

Substitute a japanese hakama for the cloak and you have me every saturday morning. And some weeknights....

Uh-oh, did you ever live in Hawaii? Have long, flowing curly red hair? How many of you could there be, after all?

[Jarrod]

Originally Posted by Angela

Uh-oh, did you ever live in Hawaii? Have long, flowing curly red hair? How many of you could there be, after all?

Lol no Aussie through and through. But anyway back to the thread...

[dancer]

Originally Posted by Maguru

I don't quite understand what you mean by attached to the emotional experience. Do you replay it over and over in your mind? Do you not recover from some negative experiences?

I might be attached to outcomes and this can be in all areas of my life and for various emotional experiences. To give you an example, I might expect my lover to behave in a particular way in order to prove his love for me. When he doesn't, I feel unloved. Or, I might make the wrong choice of lover because I can be impulsive and have run with the quick fix of the attraction. Another silly example, I get furious when following behind someone to an exit and they let the door slam after them instead of holding it open for me. Or, I get bored if things don't happen immediately. These are just a few examples Being present has helped.

Yes, I have replayed experiences over and over in my mind, but since reading Tolle, I do this less.

No, I have not always recovered from some of my negative experiences or it has taken a long time.

It isn't that I drop the impact of those experiences. I look as to how and why I have created these experiences. I take full responsibility for my part in whatever it may be and usually come up with simple solutions e.g. "I'm not doing that again" or "I don't have to be that way anymore."

Just over one year ago, I understood responsibility. Sometimes, I fall back into victim mode, but this happens less and less.

However, other devastating emotional experiences go much deeper. The impact can be life changing and has been several times in my life. I have had no control over these events and they changed me to my core. It is a loss of innocence that can never be recovered whilst a participant of the human race.

I relate, however, in my own case, I don't see it as a loss of innocence. Life is always changing and so is my perspective and with perspective changes I see life in a different way, therefore I retain or regain my innocence. It is difficult to explain, I guess I'm trying to say: the experience is not always what is perceived and my outlook retains a sence of innocence.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by dancer

I might be attached to outcomes and this can be in all areas of my life and for various emotional experiences. To give you an example, I might expect my lover to behave in a particular way in order to prove his love for me. When he doesn't, I feel unloved. Or, I might make the wrong choice of lover because I can be impulsive and have run with the quick fix of the attraction. Another silly example, I get furious when following behind someone to an exit and they let the door slam after them instead of holding it open for me. Or, I get bored if things don't happen immediately. These are just a few examples Being present has helped.

Yes, I have replayed experiences over and over in my mind, but since reading Tolle, I do this less.

No, I have not always recovered from some of my negative experiences or it has taken a long time.



Just over one year ago, I understood responsibility. Sometimes, I fall back into victim mode, but this happens less and less.



I relate, however, in my own case, I don't see it as a loss of innocence. Life is always changing and so is my perspective and with perspective changes I see life in a different way, therefore I retain or regain my innocence. It is difficult to explain, I guess I'm trying to say: the experience is not always what is perceived and my outlook retains a sence of innocence.

Thanks Dancer, I understand more now. Actually, I think we do the same thing in different ways. I don't generally become the victim but I become aware of who I am/was being (during the experience) which then gives me choice. For me, being 'present' means being aware of self.

I don't mean 'innocence' as opposed to guilt but maybe more a loss of 'ignorance' that brings responsibilty. Can't plead 'don't know' any more I prefer your perception of gain rather than loss. Hmm........I guess I don't want the responsibilty. I cling on to the experience of a wonderful childhood and have tried to replicate that all my life.
Ah, here is where I create my pain. (Another door opens for me) I don't want it to be how it really is and ain't that the truth! I'm working on it. Regards

[coLLege kid07]

Originally Posted by Maguru

Thanks Dancer, I understand more now. Actually, I think we do the same thing in different ways. I don't generally become the victim but I become aware of who I am/was being (during the experience) which then gives me choice. For me, being 'present' means being aware of self.

I don't mean 'innocence' as opposed to guilt but maybe more a loss of 'ignorance' that brings responsibilty. Can't plead 'don't know' any more I prefer your perception of gain rather than loss. Hmm........I guess I don't want the responsibilty. I cling on to the experience of a wonderful childhood and have tried to replicate that all my life.
Ah, here is where I create my pain. (Another door opens for me) I don't want it to be how it really is and ain't that the truth! I'm working on it. Regards

Yea I think it's kinda of like when you're a child you don't know any better...and now you do so theres no excuse (even though we like to make alot of them) Anywho..forget your emotional pain and do what you really want...find what you really want to do in life...change your values and beliefs and get going...it's from there than you'll have an easy ability to remove old scars. Good luck

[dancer]

Originally Posted by dali

if pain is the finger pointing to the moon and we look at the moon we have got the point. If however we focus on the finger then we are as the wise saying goes on to point out , Fools, but if we let pain speak and dont argue with it we will understand what it is telling us. It seems to be in the design. A child sometimes after all the care his mother can give, say, after burning his finger will sit and look at the redness and weep,long after the pain has gone. Thats suffering. Making a meal of it.He is not remotely interested in the fact that it was unwise to stick his finger in the fire.Its a hard one for the boy but he will have to learn to stop looking at his finger and drawing everyones attention to it if he wants the pain to go away. I suppose then we make it all as REAL as we want it to be.I heard this guy over a period of months at social gatherings tell perfect strangers some horrible personal things he had gone through in his life. Time after time real tragedy.One night I questioned him on this deep sharing he practiced. Somewhere along the line he had heard that it does you good to talk about these things and the more honest you are the better ,suggesting that by sharing our pains they will be healed. I suggested he sit alone with his pain sometimes and hold back on sharing it all willy nilly. He took me on and does that now and talks only to intimate friends about his issues . He laughs a lot more these days. Pain has a purpose. It has transforming qualities which work best when savoured than when bandied about. Best to let the moon shine on that finger than run around showing everyone how bad it all is! As to whats real and whats not real....one becomes the other anyway.

Dali,

Thank you for your post it had great meaning for me as there have been times where I have focused on the finger. Also, I often talk about someone special in my life and I know it can make others uncomfortable.

Love your name it reminds me of Salvador Dali and I LOVE his work.

[NightSpirit]

I just can't get into that video game analogy of life. Seems like a demeaning description to me, similar to calling life that great tapestry of God's.
I guess I just got too intimate with the characters in my game and am still looking over the same ledge they fell from.

Those trivializations...and I think that's what they are, an attempt to make trivial the experience or to take away some of the seriousness and power....they always bother me no matter where they come from. I guess I need to look inside and see why my ego won't let me see myself as just pixels and energy. Dust and spirit is better? Not really.

Anyway, we hold on to our negative emotions because sometimes we see the length and the depth of the pain as a way to hold on to the experience or as a way to honor the importance of the source of the pain. Sometimes we assign that importance or we let the opinions of other's assign that importance for us.

The loss of a job is important, right? So to grieve not at all or only for one day and then be happy again wouldn't be honoring to that loss or indicates possible laziness or irresponsibility. Being molested or abused or losing someone we love is the pits and who will care and remember if we let ourselves stop feeling the pain?

We think we become the guardians of keeping memories alive by holding on to the pain. How much or how long would a "serious" person care about this event? Or a loving person? Or a good daughter? Are we good because we care deeply or do we care deeply trying to be good? The more emotion, the bigger the "memorial" we can build inside our memory.

There is a technique of emotional mastery to allow the negative emotions to flow without restriction but only for a certain amount of time each day to be decreased at intervals. Emotions that come up outside that time are mentally postponed to the next assigned time and in doing so, the control of emotional responses can be learned.

Emotions add power to memory. Everyone knows, I guess, that we can do this on purpose, in memorization, to add emotion and thus importance to whatever is to be committed to memory. Not an original idea of anyone's but a feature of our design.

If we find ourselves doing indulging in negative emotions about all things out of habit or of an expectation that a "good" person cares enough and remembers all important details, then we are suffering unnecessarily.

Memories that evoke negative emotions are not some spiritual conspiracy or attack or a sign of a weakness or lack of emotional development. Memories and thoughts come to our minds because, again, that's the way our brains learn, by associations and recall of stored information.

I don't think negative emotions are greater in number or more powerful than the positive ones, in my experience, just a matter of focus, in the way we would be more likely to notice a wasp than a butterfly. We do make the mistake of giving the negative emotions more attention in trying to rid ourselves of them. Giving positive emotions the most attention, being on the lookout for the times we feel love or joy or peace causes negative emotions and negative thought patterns to go away also.

The techniques for changing the emotional states our memories evoke, such as distraction or EFT, or replacing a positive thought for a negative one or just not adding energy to the thought by our resistance, these all work.

I guess the non-resistance of believing that "this emotion is only an illusion and not real" or "It's my video game of life and I get to choose the meaning or point value of the characters or events" can be seen as another way of doing the same thing.

[NightSpirit]

Dali, Tried to send this by email or PM but you're not set up for that. I am no perfect writer myself and am working on better organizing and condensing my thoughts but I have a technical suggestion for you.

There is such a sweet message in most of what you write and maybe you have heard it before, but it would be a lot easier to read and sink in if you would attempt to break up your thoughts with paragraphs. Otherwise most people might scroll through and miss your message and that would be a shame.

An example of what I mean is below.

Originally Posted by dali

if pain is the finger pointing to the moon and we look at the moon we have got the point. If however we focus on the finger then we are as the wise saying goes on to point out , Fools, but if we let pain speak and dont argue with it we will understand what it is telling us. It seems to be in the design.

A child sometimes after all the care his mother can give, say, after burning his finger will sit and look at the redness and weep,long after the pain has gone. Thats suffering. Making a meal of it.He is not remotely interested in the fact that it was unwise to stick his finger in the fire.Its a hard one for the boy but he will have to learn to stop looking at his finger and drawing everyones attention to it if he wants the pain to go away. I suppose then we make it all as REAL as we want it to be.

I heard this guy over a period of months at social gatherings tell perfect strangers some horrible personal things he had gone through in his life. Time after time real tragedy.One night I questioned him on this deep sharing he practiced. Somewhere along the line he had heard that it does you good to talk about these things and the more honest you are the better ,suggesting that by sharing our pains they will be healed. I suggested he sit alone with his pain sometimes and hold back on sharing it all willy nilly. He took me on and does that now and talks only to intimate friends about his issues . He laughs a lot more these days.

Pain has a purpose. It has transforming qualities which work best when savoured than when bandied about. Best to let the moon shine on that finger than run around showing everyone how bad it all is! As to whats real and whats not real....one becomes the other anyway.

If you could do something like this, it would help me. Either way, just keep posting. I enjoy what you say and I'm sure you have helped others also.
Thanks, Deb