Feeling lonely in subjective reality

[Curyous]

I'd really like to try the subjective reality mindset, but there is one thing that is hindering my progress to get there. I currently enjoy meeting people because of the ideas they have and different perspective etc - they enrich my life.

If all people are just projections of my own consciousness, then, to me, that is not exciting, I like the prospect of people doing better (or different) things than what I would have thought of.

This is especially relevant when looking for a partner - especially someone who will expand me and bring joy to my life just because of the way we interact. I like the aspect of joining with somebody else - what's the point if they are already me? For me, 1 + 1 > 2, ie me + not me = greater than both of us. me + me doesn't seem to have the same appeal.

Please help.


Thanks,

Curyous

[Jaben]

I see an important distinction between what seems to me to be two very distinct versions of subjective reality. Both versions agree there is one underlying awareness but the distinction is how they view the experiencing.

Version 1: There is no simultaneous awareness of different experiences, only one experience at a time, one avatar.
Version 2: There are simultaneously separate experiences being experienced, multiple avatars.

The thing I don't like about version 1 is that it means for example that this post will not really be read in the same sense that it is written. It is written with consciousness experiencing its writing. Under version 1 there is never any experience of it being read.

I believe it is version 1 that makes people feel lonely. It seems like many people seem to believe in version 2 and also many people who believe version 2 is a misunderstanding of subjectivity. Is the notion of only one avatar a requirement for subjectivity?

I don't think it is. LOA makes just as much sense if not more under version 2 and version 2 doesn't feel lonely to me.

[Markus74]

Curyous: you're raising an interesting point indeed. If it's just about you, then you're really lonely indeed. Because even right now you are writing this here as me ...

Wouldn't that be pathetic?

[Frans]

Markus74, do you agree that not everything what your senses perceive is real, and that you cannot perceive everything?

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by Frans

Markus74, do you agree that not everything what your senses perceive is real, and that you cannot perceive everything?

Yes. But that does not mean that nothing is real or that I can't perceive anything

[Frans]

Originally Posted by Markus74

Yes. But that does not mean that nothing is real or that I can't perceive anything

If you agree with the statement "that not everything what your senses perceive is real, and that you cannot perceive everything", it means that you admit that reality is filtered through your senses, that you not always see reality "as it is".
Do we still agree?

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by Frans

If you agree with the statement "that not everything what your senses perceive is real, and that you cannot perceive everything", it means that you admit that reality is filtered through your senses, that you not always see reality "as it is".
Do we still agree?

Yes, but that does not mean I can alter everything.

I cannot by willpower change a cow to become a sheep. There are rules in our reality, whether or not I perceive everything. You don't have to believe in gravity to experience it. You can of course decide not to believe it and jump from a building ... Good luck then!

[Frans]

Originally Posted by Markus74

Yes, but that does not mean I can alter everything.

I cannot by willpower change a cow to become a sheep. There are rules in our reality, whether or not I perceive everything. You don't have to believe in gravity to experience it. You can of course decide not to believe it and jump from a building ... Good luck then!

OK. So you agree that reality is filtered through your senses, that you not always see reality as it is.
The logical consequence is then: what you call "reality" is nothing more than your personal perception of reality.

If you are intellectually honest, you can only label this perceived reality as "subjective reality".

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by Frans

If you are intellectually honest, you can only label this perceived reality as "subjective reality".

I actually totally agree. That's an obvious statement. Since I see the world with my eyes and not yours, I've got my subjective reality and you've got yours.

Yet we have to play along the same rules. That's my point. But SR believers often claim that since it's 'your' reality you can do ANYTHING you want. Which is obviously not true. Or can you change gravity in your reality? Because that would make me jealous

[Frans]

Originally Posted by Markus74

I actually totally agree. That's an obvious statement. Since I see the world with my eyes and not yours, I've got my subjective reality and you've got yours.

Historical posting: Markus74 acknowledges subjective reality!

Originally Posted by Markus74

Yet we have to play along the same rules. That's my point. But SR believers often claim that since it's 'your' reality you can do ANYTHING you want. Which is obviously not true. Or can you change gravity in your reality? Because that would make me jealous

If somebody claims that he can perform levitations, then argue with that person please.
I can only speak for myself and I have always said that I'm not interested to apply I-M, because I have everything what I need (and it's not my ambition to fly or do some levitations).



Now, back to the topic of this thread: Feeling lonely in subjective reality.

Originally Posted by Curyous

I'd really like to try the subjective reality mindset, but there is one thing that is hindering my progress to get there. I currently enjoy meeting people because of the ideas they have and different perspective etc - they enrich my life.

If all people are just projections of my own consciousness, then, to me, that is not exciting, I like the prospect of people doing better (or different) things than what I would have thought of.

You see, Curyous, nobody can deny that what we call reality, is only a perceived version of reality.
What we perceive of reality is per definition "subjective reality".

Everybody has his own life, his own perceptions and his own understanding of reality. There are no two people on this planet who have the same "point of view" (in all its meanings!), so if people keep saying that reality is objective, they don't know what they are talking about.

Why should you feel lonely in your subjective reality?
For your own sake, consider people in your reality as real people, because that's the only way to enjoy your life and to learn more about yourself.
Besides, you'll not make many friends if you tell them that they are not real.

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by Frans

Historical posting: Markus74 acknowledges subjective reality!

Which isn't that surprising, at least not for me. Because subjective reality is a fact, most of the claims of Subjective Reality believers on the other hand are wishful thinking and voodoo

If somebody claims that he can perform levitations, then argue with that person please. I can only speak for myself and I have always said that I'm not interested to apply I-M, because I have everything what I need (and it's not my ambition to fly or do some levitations).

Ok, but so what is your 'magical' belief (if you have one)?

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by Frans

For your own sake, consider people in your reality as real people, because that's the only way to enjoy your life and to learn more about yourself.
Besides, you'll not make many friends if you tell them that they are not real.

And if one of them is a psychiatrist he may even put you in a nuthouse!

[Frans]

Originally Posted by Jaben

I see an important distinction between what seems to me to be two very distinct versions of subjective reality. Both versions agree there is one underlying awareness but the distinction is how they view the experiencing.

Version 1: There is no simultaneous awareness of different experiences, only one experience at a time, one avatar.
Version 2: There are simultaneously separate experiences being experienced, multiple avatars.

As a defender of "version 1" I can say you that I don't feel lonely at all.

Originally Posted by Markus74

Ok, but so what is your 'magical' belief (if you have one)?

This weekend, I'll start another thread in this forum to explain my vision of subjective reality (= "version 1").

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by Frans

This weekend, I'll start another thread in this forum to explain my vision of subjective reality (= "version 1").

Cool, I'm looking forward to it

And please do also mention why version 1 would be correct and version 2 would be incorrect.