Where do souls come from then....

[viscapes]

.....and where do they go when you die?

Following from the "Do non-human lives have souls" thread. If we were to conclude that the soul exists (either in ALL life or exclusively in humans) then where does your soul come from and where does it go when it's no longer connected to your physical existence?

Is a soul made up of energy? If so, then presumably when it's no longer connected to us (when we die) it changes into some other form of energy and absorbed back into the ether. This is what happens with energy, right? (eg. kinetic energy turns into heat or sound).

Would that then suggest that there's a finite amount of energy in our universe that's simply in a constant state of transition? That we are simply the current incarnation of some form of energy and that the universe itself is alive and we are all part of it?

I guess the only question people REALLY care about is that if our souls (our energy) transforms into some other form of energy when we die, will we recognise or even care about the energies (souls) we've made connections with in this existence (i.e. family, friends etc.) Would "attractions" that our energy has formed in this life maintain into the next?

Hmmmmm....

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by viscapes

.....and where do they go when you die?

Following from the "Do non-human lives have souls" thread. If we were to conclude that the soul exists (either in ALL life or exclusively in humans) then where does your soul come from and where does it go when it's no longer connected to your physical existence?
...
I guess the only question people REALLY care about is that if our souls (our energy) transforms into some other form of energy when we die, will we recognise or even care about the energies (souls) we've made connections with in this existence (i.e. family, friends etc.) Would "attractions" that our energy has formed in this life maintain into the next?

After death, the soul continues to exist on a more refined plane of reality, on a different frequency to the physical plane.

If your reality is filled with loving relationships now, why should they cease to be when you die? In fact, they do continue – and in a much more beautiful way.

Similarly, if your reality now is filled with pride, envy and selfishness, you will experience all that negativity in a much more heightened form after you die, i.e. you will suffer.

Why is that? well, because you no longer have a physical body and brain, which, to a large degree, buffer you from the full effects of what the soul creates. The soul, then, after death, experiences itself in a far more acute and heightened way.

If there is a Law of Attraction, then I believe this is its most important area of application (not in manifesting blue feathers and car park spaces!).

[viscapes]

Originally Posted by Cantando

If your reality is filled with loving relationships now, why should they cease to be when you die? In fact, they do continue – and in a much more beautiful way.

Similarly, if your reality now is filled with pride, envy and selfishness, you will experience all that negativity in a much more heightened form after you die, i.e. you will suffer.

Hi Cantando,

That's a superb analogy of heaven and hell and perhaps goes some way towards reconciling religious beliefs about the afterlife with more "spiritual" beliefs. Those who are positive, caring and loving towards others have this rewarded back to them ten fold in the next life, while those who are selfish, mean and envious suffer ten fold. That's a nice thought, I think.

Cheers
Paul

[pianoperformer]

Would that then suggest that there's a finite amount of energy in our universe that's simply in a constant state of transition? That we are simply the current incarnation of some form of energy and that the universe itself is alive and we are all part of it?

This idea actually really makes sense to me.

As to whether we maintain our relationships, I really dont' know. Maybe, or maybe not. Perhaps on a different level. If we reincarnate, then certainly it is just one life of many in which we develop relationships and friendships.

It is all theory, but I tend to agree with what I quoted from your post.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by viscapes

Those who are positive, caring and loving towards others have this rewarded back to them ten fold in the next life, while those who are selfish, mean and envious suffer ten fold.

Exactly. What you sow in this life, you reap in the next - whether you are saint, sinner, atheist, fundie, Oprah Winfrey, Eckhart Tolle, Hilary Clinton - I mean everybody. Each soul will be fully aware of the consequences of every act it has ever committed. Nobody is exempt.
or should it be

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by viscapes

. If so, then presumably when it's no longer connected to us (when we die) it changes .

You're talking as if your soul where something apart from you ?

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by viscapes

Where do souls come from then....

Nowhere and no-when.

It's like asking where consciousness comes from? Or asking what consciousness is?

You've always existed, you exist now, and you will never cease to exist.

[dancer]

Originally Posted by Cantando

Similarly, if your reality now is filled with pride, envy and selfishness, you will experience all that negativity in a much more heightened form after you die, i.e. you will suffer.

Why is that? well, because you no longer have a physical body and brain, which, to a large degree, buffer you from the full effects of what the soul creates. The soul, then, after death, experiences itself in a far more acute and heightened way.

Are these states not products of the ego, rather than the soul?

[pianoperformer]

I would ask whether the ego follows us in death. This is following the common definition of the ego being that which makes us feel separate. So far as I know (which isn't much, admittedly), we still feel separate after death. Maybe it just isn't as pronounced—I don't know.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by dancer

Are these states not products of the ego, rather than the soul?

There is no "ego" or "soul". There is just you.

Thats like saying I am three different people becasue I call myself three different names....Me, myself and I.

It's all you.

[dancer]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

There is no "ego" or "soul". There is just you.

Thats like saying I am three different people becasue I call myself three different names....Me, myself and I.

It's all you.

I am not denying my ego is part of my existence, however, I do believe that much of my suffering in this life has come from my ego. I have not taken this new understanding further in how it would affect my afterlife.

I do not believe in heaven and hell. Life can be both. If I do not learn the lesson my soul set out to learn in this life, then I will be given opportunities to gain that learning in another life. In essence, perhaps I am saying the same as what Cantando said, except hell is not a destination on another plane - for me at least.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by dancer

Are these states not products of the ego, rather than the soul?

In some cases, possibly, but who owns the ego? Who directs it? Where does its power come from? Can the ego create? Perhaps the ego is a product of the soul, something you have created.

[viscapes]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

There is no "ego" or "soul". There is just you.

Thats like saying I am three different people becasue I call myself three different names....Me, myself and I.

It's all you.

It's not like saying that at all. It's simply stating a belief that we're more than the some of our parts. That there's more to us than simple biochemistry.

Here's a fantastic quote from Steve Grand that always gets me thinking:

‘Think of an experience you clearly remember, something you can see, feel,
maybe even smell, as if you are really there. After all, you really were
there at the time, weren’t you? How else would you remember it? But here is
the bombshell: you weren’t there. Not a single atom that is in your body
today was there when that event took place. Matter flows from place to place
and momentarily comes together to be you. Whatever you are, therefore, you
are not the stuff of which you are made. If that doesn’t make the hair stand
up on the back of your neck, read it again until it does, because it is
important’.

That suggests then, that part of us, part of who we are, is non-physical, non-tangible. Whether we define it as our ego or our soul is besides the point. Perhaps there's a whole host of non-physical elements which make up part of who we are. Regardless, suggesting that we have an ego or a soul is not like suggesting we are three different people, it's simply recognising that there may be more to us than we're tangibly aware of.

[Evan]

My metaphor is that we are one being with different dimensions - just as objects exist in three dimensions (or maybe more).

I think we have a physical and spiritual dimension. We can perhaps focus on one but they can't be separated in experience.

[viscapes]

Originally Posted by Evan

My metaphor is that we are one being with different dimensions - just as objects exist in three dimensions (or maybe more).

I think we have a physical and spiritual dimension. We can perhaps focus on one but they can't be separated in experience.

So what happens then when the physical dimension dies? Does the spiritual dimension die too?

If we were to accept for a moment that the spirit can exist without the body, that might then imply that the body could exist without the spirit. Are there examples of this?

I certainly recall when my father-in-law was on his death bed there was a period where he simply "wasn't there", where what I had come to recognise as him I simply didn't see in him anymore. Was I was witnessing a body existing independantly of spirit, or did his fading physical capacity simply make him appear lifeless?

It all sounds a bit morbid, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who considers these things.

[dancer]

Originally Posted by Cantando

In some cases, possibly, but who owns the ego? Who directs it? Where does its power come from? Can the ego create? Perhaps the ego is a product of the soul, something you have created.

The ego gets its power from itself. Watch what happens when the ego has the power. Bottom line, the ego creates suffering. I truly believe this.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by dancer

The ego gets its power from itself. Watch what happens when the ego has the power. Bottom line, the ego creates suffering. I truly believe this.

I'm not so sure. I think of the ego (and its just my interpretation) as an external extension of what we want to portray to the world. The lower layers of the ego can be pretty unwholesome - manifesting selfishness, greed, etc, but surely its power ultimately comes from the true self (the soul?).

Also, I believe that the soul can suffer deep down and experience existential angst, regardless of the ego. The soul can experience spiritual pain as it struggles to understand itself and the reality it creates.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by viscapes

Regardless, suggesting that we have an ego or a soul is not like suggesting we are three different people, it's simply recognising that there may be more to us than we're tangibly aware of.

And I am saying, to keep these definitions, "ego" and "soul"...... slows down the recognizing of the rest of our being.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by dancer

The ego gets its power from itself. Watch what happens when the ego has the power. Bottom line, the ego creates suffering. I truly believe this.

I'd say misunderstanding creates suffering.

[munish]

i Think souls are just the projections of the consciousness.

[Cantando]

I tend to believe that the human soul is an individual entity which sprouts from God, and so is of the same spiritual substance. Consciousness is projected from the soul as a means of perception.

The development of consciousness is not necessarily proportionate to development of the soul.
I think there is an error in some thinking today that holds that the soul and consciousness are the same thing. They are not (imo).

A person can be highly developed in consciousness and have very little soul and vice versa.
What exactly the soul is, is hard to define and when we investigate it, we come to concepts of the void from which creation arises. Scientifically, there is nothing there, but spiritually, there is something.

[Anagogy]

There is only one soul, and we all share it. It's center is everywhere, and its circumference is nowhere.

You see it when you look out the window. When you drive your car. When you pay your taxes. When you look into another's eyes.

You feel it when you care about someone, when you feel angry about something, or when you feel pleasure, pain, or even numbness.

You know it when you are living life in the moment, being focussed on the present, appreciating that which is, for simply being what it is, naturally.

The soul is eternal. It has always existed and cannot stop existing. Things that have a beginning, must invariably also have an end. Therefore, the soul had no beginning, and because of this, it will have no end.

The soul is not composed of energy, but energy is composed of soul. The reality of soul encompasses the reality of energy, but energy does not completely encompass the reality of soul. The soul is the prompt that begets the manifestation of energy, which is simply the thoughtform of action.

The soul is changeless and absolute, but it dreams of beginnings and endings, or, in other words, the duality that represents relativity.