self esteem vs. the ego

[Angela]

Rockchick, what do you really *know* about a person by learning the kind of stuff they put on a MySpace page? Their preferences in music, food, clothing style, hobbies and talents -- the outer trappings. For myself, if I were on a date or hanging out with someone for a few hours, learning about the trappings would be just the fluff -- fun, but not so important. I am far more interested in who that person is being, and you can't accurately evaluate that just by looking at the way they wear their hair or what bands they listen to.

When you get caught up in thinking you know a person by knowing their outer trappings, you're limiting the intimacy you have with them. Same goes with the relationship with yourself! When you think you are your own outer trappings, you're limiting your intimacy with you.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

Yeah i knew the whole story about his depression. But i guess what i'm talking about isnt that,i've never been suicidally depressed,i've just gone through phases in my life where i think it sucks and i didnt know why i couldnt get a boyfriend,etc. but those feelings are normal.

I thought it might be related in the sense that Tolle's low-self-esteem wasn't turned into "high self esteem" that was ego based. It turned into a humbleness, right?

What i'm wondering about now is something different though. I am wondering,if someone is enlightened and doesnt identify with their ego,then what becomes of expressing yourself?

I think enlightened people probably are more unique than the herd mentality people. Because they let go of trying to impress or get attention to feed their self worth, their self worth is a given and they allow the true nature of Being come through them and be a weird as they really are. The low self esteemers are trying to fit in more because they need validation of their self. They look for identity enhancers that make them more like everybody else. In their efforts to boost their identity they ironically alter their true nature and become less individualistic but more like everyone else.

I mean for one example lets say i get a funky colored hairdo,wear lots of jewelry and tshirts with band names on them... Is that identifying with my ego or is that simply expressing myself in creative ways?

It depends on what it feels like. I could see it as like creating art but the canvas is yourself. The trap is to expect this art to generate self worth or better relationships or more something or an other that isn't being fulfilled from within. If it goes that way, it's ego looking for validations. imho...

How about if i get into a conversation with a person i just met and we talk about our favorite bands and concerts we've been to? Is that identifying too much with my interests (after all,interests are not you!) I just dont know where to draw the line in my every day life regarding expressing myself.

I like that you are thinking about this.

It is puzzling. Is it so surface level to chit chat?

I would think so discussions that start out like that could also go to deeper levels. Like why do you like that band? What is their message?

If someone has no interests does that mean they are enlightened? I don't think so. Maybe enlightened ones have interests too and like certain bands and also talk about their interests.

Maybe it's the same thing as watching out for making an identity that requires energy to defend or continually feed that identity. Like if someone says that band sucks and you are stupid to like them - if that feels like an attack to yourself, then there is some identity placed in that interest.

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by Angela

Rockchick, what do you really *know* about a person by learning the kind of stuff they put on a MySpace page? Their preferences in music, food, clothing style, hobbies and talents -- the outer trappings. For myself, if I were on a date or hanging out with someone for a few hours, learning about the trappings would be just the fluff -- fun, but not so important. I am far more interested in who that person is being, and you can't accurately evaluate that just by looking at the way they wear their hair or what bands they listen to.

When you get caught up in thinking you know a person by knowing their outer trappings, you're limiting the intimacy you have with them. Same goes with the relationship with yourself! When you think you are your own outer trappings, you're limiting your intimacy with you.

Well,i realize all this,and i'm still learning,so bear with me LOL But what i meant was those outer things are what attracts you in the first place,and THEN you go from there and slowly get to know them as a person. If there was no outer things to attract us to others,then we would literally be dating and hanging out with every single person we meet just because they are there. There has to be SOMETHING to get the conversation flowing,to get your eyes to meet,to ignite the initial spark. And since everyone is the same,deep down,we need to have things that set us apart,otherwise,like i said,we might as well just marry the first member of the opposite sex that comes along just because they are a human too. "hey,you're a human! You have a physical body and a soul! Lets get married!" lol See how ridiculous that sounds?

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

I thought it might be related in the sense that Tolle's low-self-esteem wasn't turned into "high self esteem" that was ego based. It turned into a humbleness, right?

Yeah,makes sense! I think the reason why its so hard for me to figure out is because 99% of the population thinks having high self esteem is a good thing,its how our society is. Its so strange for someone to come along and not even have a need for any type of self esteem at all.

I could see it as like creating art but the canvas is yourself. The trap is to expect this art to generate self worth or better relationships or more something or an other that isn't being fulfilled from within. If it goes that way, it's ego looking for validations. imho...

Yeah,i get it! I like that,"creating art but the canvas is yourself". That is how i think of it (obviously,since i'm into tattooes and clothing that attract like minded people). I dont look at it as a way to fullfill myself,i look at it as a way of sharing my interests with the world and hopefully attracting others with the same interests.

I would think so discussions that start out like that could also go to deeper levels. Like why do you like that band? What is their message?

Ahhhh and that is my greatest satisfaction in life,to connect with others through a common interest.

Maybe it's the same thing as watching out for making an identity that requires energy to defend or continually feed that identity. Like if someone says that band sucks and you are stupid to like them - if that feels like an attack to yourself, then there is some identity placed in that interest.

Yeah,i know a lot of people that react that way. Teenagers are notorious for that. "that band sucks!" "YOU suck!" lol But i realize everyone has their opinions,and you cant change them. So thats why i just try to find others who share in my opinions. Is that so bad? lol

[blazer1]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

Well i already know why i had low self esteem growing up,i said it in one of my replies up there....i got picked on and ridiculed by pretty much all my classmates,even my so called friends. And no boys ever liked me. That right there'll do it LOL They still dont,but at least now i know i am worthy.

So now that you have figured out the source of your low self-esteem it makes things kind of easier.

Don't you think for a Human who is not tuned into him/herself it would be 'normal' to feel low self-esteem given your past?

And I believe recently you are coming to grips with the idea of Ego and no-self.

Don't you see how your circumstances and its resultant outcome (low self-esteem) is just a natural humanly outcome?

Knowing this, wouldn't you want to redirect those experiences towards another outcome? Perhaps more compassion for people who do get picked on, and greater confidence in self because you have been through some hard ♥♥♥♥!?!

Most people don't ever get picked on, and they turn out the most weak, superficial a55holes you will come across, who think they are gods gift to the planet.

Don't you feel above those laymen?

The roots of your low self-esteem came likely from 1 event, perhaps the first time you got picked on. Then another bully, another prick, another retard worsened your self-worth. Can you imagine if that first event never took place? Imagine the first time someone tried to pick on you, and you retaliated harder than he/she would have expected ???

You would have come off on a positive vibe from that, and that positiveness would have cascaded into all your future encounters with people.


So it's about re-framing your mind, and thinking ... bluntly put, like a grown up. Get over it.

I had some parental issues which I believe fcked my life up ... but after some self-reflection ... (and understanding what I just told you) .... I have come to a stage where I an not reliant on my preconceived ideas of who I am or where I am headed.

I can re-frame my mind to any perspective I want!! It's all Ego!!

Ego can be your servant, or it can be your enemy. Use it wisely.

Happy travelling.