Do Non-Human Life Have Souls?

[Captain Cloudchaser]

I'm aware that all life has a certain amount of energy vibrating within it, I kinda believe that all that energy is connected in a way that makes the very planet alive. But I would like to hear some perspectives on what you think about non-human life and souls.

Do animals, plants, insects, bacteria, and anything considered to be technically 'alive' have a soul?

I consider humans to be a form of animal, although obviously evolved, so it is not so far-fetched for me to believe that animals also have a soul. And if I can believe that, then I can also believe that plants also have a soul, because plants are living beings, intelligent enough to adapt to their surroundings, and some studies have revealed that plants may be able to feel pain. If I can assume plants have souls, then again, I can also assume that insects and other forms of life, also have souls.

In fact, to be perfectly honest, I don't think I would like to exist within a world where 'lower' lifeforms did not have a soul, and were not considered to be of equal worth to us.

Thanks for your input!

[bellemeadows]

Yes, they do.

Even in the Bible, God breathed the same breath of life into the animals that he did into Adam. They only difference, was he gave Adam the ability of 'naming' things.

Blessings from Belle.

[bellemeadows]

The more eye-opening Q to ask is, what is a soul?

Blessings from Belle,

[Captain Cloudchaser]

Originally Posted by bellemeadows

what is a soul?

Now that is a good question.

I'm not sure what the answer is

The energy and consciousness within each being?

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by bellemeadows

Yes, they do.

Even in the Bible, God breathed the same breath of life into the animals that he did into Adam. They only difference, was he gave Adam the ability of 'naming' things.

Blessings from Belle.

Belle, I think you missed a rather important bit (according to the Bible): God created man in the image of himself (Genesis 1:14).
Even if you are of a new age persuasion, it can be deducted that the self (man) is a creation of God/All That Is/ Source/Insert word or phrase that floats your boat.

[dave marshall]

the soul can be thought of as a gestalt of consciousness,

dave

[ViewAllSides]

More and more I have come to the belief that we are all connected. People of faith have been at the forefront of social change for centuries...but until animals (plants, etc.) are recognized as elemental parts of the whole, I wonder if they will ever be appropriately recognized as possessing souls?

I believe the tide is shifting. Three recent speeches delivered by the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church included animals. The United Church of Religious Science just changed its guiding principles document to be more inclusive of all life. Animal Kinship Ministries are popping up everywhere and a west coastTheological Institute will be launching an Animal Chaplain program soon. Last year, a group of faith leaders created a document called A Religious Proclamation for Animal Compassion (www.bestfriends.org/signproc)

People look to their faith leaders for sort of a 'spiritual permission' to feel that animals have souls and can be viewed spiritually. Hopefully, once this occurs, we will see more emphasis in this movement.

Till then, it's up to us!

[pianoperformer]

I agree that animals and plants have souls.

The question is, how far down does it go? Do bacteria and viruses also have souls? They are certainly replicating cells, but whether they have consciousness is another thing entirely. Do single-celled organisms have souls? I don't know. Maybe they have consciousness, but are not self-aware.

[Dannyboy1]

In fact I think animals are closer to God than most humans. Dogs are all about love. I've never seen a creature more capable of love than a dog. No matter what a master does to his dog, the dog still loves unconditionally. I think we should model ourselves after them.

[SonoranBob]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

I agree that animals and plants have souls.

The question is, how far down does it go? Do bacteria and viruses also have souls? They are certainly replicating cells, but whether they have consciousness is another thing entirely. Do single-celled organisms have souls? I don't know. Maybe they have consciousness, but are not self-aware.

You forgot plants. But you can carry it farther than that. Some people say that even inanimate objects have consciousness or a soul. Seems to me, though, that if a rock is conscious, it's of so little practical import that it probably doesn't matter what you or I think or recognize about it.

I have been intimately acquainted with people who feel a special kinship with animals -- either a specific kind or animals generally. It's my observation 100% of the time so far that their soft spot for animals is because an animal's apparent lack of ego or judgment and no-strings-attached affection (real or imagined) is superior to their experience with their fellow humans (real or imagined). So another question becomes, to what extent do animals have a soul, however rudimentary? Or is some or all of that explained by us projecting desired human qualities on them and anthropomorphizing them?

Indeed -- one could ask the same question about people's relationship with God. Are they relating to a real God or to their anthropomorphized image of god as a glorified / idealized human that they just can't seem to find? Or does God present himself that way as a concession to people?

I'm not arguing here that animals don't have souls or that God isn't real; I'm just saying that these are legitimate questions.

--Bob

[bellemeadows]

Originally Posted by Cantando

Belle, I think you missed a rather important bit (according to the Bible): God created man in the image of himself (Genesis 1:14).
Even if you are of a new age persuasion, it can be deducted that the self (man) is a creation of God/All That Is/ Source/Insert word or phrase that floats your boat.

Well, there is that. . . To me, God cannot be contained in images, so this particular passage didn't mean much to me. So what does it mean to you that man was created, per the Bible, in the image of God? Do you think that statement would preclude animals having souls? Just curious.

I've experienced animals reincarnating in my life. So I guess you could say that I have personal, anecdotal evidence that reinforces my belief that animals have souls. . . . And no where in the Bible does it state that the breathe of life (God's spirit) that God gave to the animals was any less eternal than that given to man.

I've actually researched this issue, when I did a lot of Bible study, and I could never find any stipulation about animals not having souls. At the time, frankly, I was trying to understand why this perspective seems so self-evident to some Christians, though certainly not to all. I eventually came to the belief that this attitude that animals don't have souls is just a somewhat common belief -- with nothing in the Bible to back it up. In fact, to the contrary, the early Christians had a popular story of the Lion who was converted to Christianity, and was transformed in many ways miraculously, and then martyred. It is in one of the books that were excluded from the Bible. But it makes it clear that early Christians did indeed believe that animals had souls.

And although noone seems to remember the text about God breathing his spirit, his breathe into the animals, it is clearly there in the Bible. At the time, I found it to be important.

I still think the better Q is, what is a soul. I don't know the answer either; so find it interesting to contemplate. But I have no doubt that animals have souls, none whatsoever. That one isn't even up for debate with me.

All the best from Belle,

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by SonoranBob

You forgot plants.

Actually, I said that plants probably have souls. Though I'm honestly not sure. That'd be some existence, wouldn't it, sitting there in the ground all the time?

Originally Posted by SonoranBob

But you can carry it farther than that. Some people say that even inanimate objects have consciousness or a soul. Seems to me, though, that if a rock is conscious, it's of so little practical import that it probably doesn't matter what you or I think or recognize about it.

This is where it gets difficult, without a concrete definition of consciousness. I say that consciousness is all-pervasive, so in that context they would have consciousness, but again not self-aware consciousness. I don't think that is a very good definition for a soul, though, of just having consciousness. Souls have a feeling of individuality, I imagine, so must even have some ego there. But these are all human terms being pushed on non-human entities, so it is rather iffy.

Originally Posted by SonoranBob

I have been intimately acquainted with people who feel a special kinship with animals -- either a specific kind or animals generally. It's my observation 100% of the time so far that their soft spot for animals is because an animal's apparent lack of ego or judgment and no-strings-attached affection (real or imagined) is superior to their experience with their fellow humans (real or imagined). So another question becomes, to what extent do animals have a soul, however rudimentary? Or is some or all of that explained by us projecting desired human qualities on them and anthropomorphizing them?

I think a little of both. it is hard for me to imagine that the loyalty and love shown by an animal is coming from something without a soul. But I am biased.

Originally Posted by SonoranBob

Indeed -- one could ask the same question about people's relationship with God. Are they relating to a real God or to their anthropomorphized image of god as a glorified / idealized human that they just can't seem to find? Or does God present himself that way as a concession to people?

I agree with your second choice of an anthropomorphized god that probably really doesn't exist, but is more like what people might think a human might be like in that situation—e.g., get angry if not worshipped, etc.

Of course, it is valid to think we're doing the same thing to animals, since we really don't know what animals are thinking, if anything at all.

[Rhythman]

The way I look at it, pure awareness is the soul. The awareness that knows to bond two Hydrogen atoms with one oxygen atoms. The awareness that causes the plant to shift its leaves ever so slightly at the beginning of each day to get the maximum sun exposure. This awareness is not self aware, but it is aware.

Rhythman

[bellemeadows]

For a rather thought-provoking foray into the do animals have souls question, I would recommend a book called The Tao of Equis. To my mind, it is not new-agey, rather I would say it is old-school, St. Francis (sp?) mystical. It is a lovely and thought-provoking read.

Amazon.com: The Tao of Equus: A Woman's Journey of Healing and Transformation through the Way of the Horse: Linda Kohanov: Books

All the best from Belle,

[yossarian]

Even rocks have souls. Of course rocks are the kind of soul that enjoys being skipped across the pond, so don't worry about bashing them together or throwing them. They like that.

There are psychics who are able to actually speak to inanimate matter. Soul is like Fire, it can be spread in an infinite number of ways. You can have a meadow and all the soil in the meadow vibrates with the same soul. Or you can have a pet rock, and that pet rock by your proximity and awareness of it, has become individuated and now has a soul separate from the other rocks from where it may have come.

One day the rock will be melted into lava, worn down by the rain, or crushed into sand by the ocean. The minerals will feed plants and thereby learn more about life. One day its particles will become millions of bacteria, perhaps a culture at first that shares a soul. A billion generations later that bacteria-soul becomes an insect.

Eons pass and now the rock is in the form of cat or deer. Perhaps the cat becomes the pet of the same old soul for which the rock was a pet. The cat learns to individuate by observing the human.. it is preparing for incarnation as a self-conscious creature.

It's the circle of life, and it includes us all.. stars spew organic materials out into space, giving birth to planets, and these planets eventually grow humans, and the humans grow into angels who grow into Gods.. then these Gods realize their oneness with all things and turn themselves into new galaxies that can give birth to new glories neverbefore seen and yet always familiar, always closer than hands and feet, always part of the One Infinite Creation.

[Erebos]

I think what is life? is an equally difficult question to answer as What's a soul.

Originally Posted by Rhythman

The way I look at it, pure awareness is the soul. The awareness that knows to bond two Hydrogen atoms with one oxygen atoms. The awareness that causes the plant to shift its leaves ever so slightly at the beginning of each day to get the maximum sun exposure. This awareness is not self aware, but it is aware.

Rhythman

You mean...physics?

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by bellemeadows

Do you think that statement would preclude animals having souls? Just curious.

No, and you’re right – we need to define what a soul is first. But, the idea that the human soul is the same as an animal soul or the same as a rock soul (!) is a bit of a general whitewash. There may well be the same species/spark of life which God breathed into all life forms, but souls (I believe) have different attributes and different levels of awareness from one kind of life form to another.

Otherwise, where do we go with this? If we split a rock into 10 million grains of sand, does each grain have a soul which has all the unique qualities and attributes of a human soul? As soon as you pluck a flower from a bush, does the flower suddenly receive a soul? Should we have a law which states that the killing of an ant is equivalent to the killing of a human being?

With regard to pets, yes they can develop in love and awareness in their relationship with their owners, and love is probably the chief attribute of a soul. So, a pet who loves you becomes connected to your soul through love, and when you die, perhaps that pet will still be there for you. So, I think the soul is more like a seed, with the potential to grow in love. It lies hidden in the unit of awareness/consciousness we see in different life forms.

If that same pet, a dog, for example, never knew human beings and lived in the wild, its soul/spirit obviously would not develop in the same way. A previous poster mentioned that there is an example of loving pets which we could follow, and they are right. It is analogous to the human soul rediscovering God and growing in love towards its true master.

However, I do not believe there is an individuated soul in lower life forms such as insects, plants and bacteria; some kind of ruling, group consciousness, maybe. And, I believe once a human soul, always a human soul; it doesn’t reincarnate into another life form.

I don’t believe in the Eastern view of the progression of souls, through sequential incarnations, from something like an ant right up to human and beyond, like a game of Snakes and Ladders – whoops, I’ve misbehaved, down I go again to being a lizard in my next lifetime!

[dali]

i sat with a frog yesterday. we looked at each other for a long time. frog is only a word. soul is only a word. something uttered something and life happened. yesterday i had a special connection with a golden little creature by the pond. maybe soul is something we share. something unutterable. something we experience. people think too much. enjoy soul. thats what its there for. leave the thinking part for the frightened, the rationalists who prefer to eat words and never taste the soul in the banana, strawberry. kiss.sense the soul in this communication between us. its the same as the one i had yesterday by the slimy pond all tadpolefull.enjoy!

[pianoperformer]

yossarian:

That is an absolutely beautiful post.

I wonder then, maybe souls evolve in some way, just like we do physically. I don't know, yet.

[bellemeadows]

Originally Posted by Cantando

. . . . where do we go with this? If we split a rock into 10 million grains of sand, does each grain have a soul which has all the unique qualities and attributes of a human soul? As soon as you pluck a flower from a bush, does the flower suddenly receive a soul? Should we have a law which states that the killing of an ant is equivalent to the killing of a human being?

As for the killing the ant thing, I think we already go a bit far with our 'killing' attitudes. In this world, all beings die. Some die from natural causes, some are killed. Killing is not always unmerciful, and inappropriate, IMHO. But the answer to this Q is, I don't know. I do know that there is more soul to be found in animals than we attribute to them. Whether the soul grows, matures, I just don't know. I do know that animals do have souls -- I could not pass myself off as the person who understands all of the ins and outs of souls. . . . I just don't know.

Ok, so if you are interested in having your preconceived notions expanded with regards to animals, horses in particular, I recommend the author Mark Rashid. Both his first book, and his book about Buck, his ranch horse, may offer a very different perspective on animals.

Amazon.com: Life Lessons from a Ranch Horse: Mark Rashid: Books

Now the thing about Mark is that, unlike other trainers, he isn't about selling to the market, he isn't about the hype. He is very down to earth; and he has had experiences with horses that are pretty amazing.

I used to phone him for advice on how to train and work with my horses. His advice was always different from other trainers, in that first and foremost there is a deep and fundamental respect for the horse, and the ability to see things and convey information about a situation from a horse's perspective. And it isn't that cloying kind of respect -- it is very practical, very down-to-earth, very knowledgeable; really mature in a way that few people find maturity. I know people who called Mark with Qs on how to . . . with their horse, and he would explain a process they could go through in an hour with their horse. At the end of that process, the consistent problem was gone. . . pretty amazing gentleman.

His books are all worth reading. I've recommended them, and lent them out many times. People are usually resistent to reading them up until they reach a point where he tells a story that totally changes their perspective, not just on horses, but on life, leadership, etc. The last story in his first book is a MUST READ. The entire book about Buck is also a must read. His book on passive leadership (yet another book) has changed the way my trainers look at horses. . . .

Just a suggestion -- I hope you read and enjoy. Mark's books are a gift! But be careful; you might begin to question or even throw out your 'hierarchy of soul attributes' beliefs, at least in regards to humans and horses.

Belle,