You've Been Left Behind.

[Angela]

Amazing.

You've been left behind.

When the Rapture comes, maybe you'll want to leave a message for your friends who haven't been saved by accepting Jesus as their savior, either to say "I told you so" or if you're a kinder soul, to urge them to get on board real quick -- apparently there is a loophole that says you if you repent at the last minute, you can still get on the boat.

Well, now there is a website where you can leave such a message! And you know how they keep track of when the Rapture is here? There are six employees who log in every day. When three of them go too long (a few days) without logging in, the system assumes they've gone to Heaven and the Rapture is upon us. (from Clicked.)

[Dannyboy1]

Is this for real? These people are absolutely sure they're among the top people who're going to be saved? They're so sure that they're offering help to get there?

[Matthew Shea]

Should this be in the humor section, Angela?

On a serious note, though, evangelical Christians will sometimes go to any length to save a soul. That's what this is. It's not my cup of tea (obviously) but whatever floats their boat...

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Matthew Shea

Should this be in the humor section, Angela?

On a serious note, though, evangelical Christians will sometimes go to any length to save a soul. That's what this is. It's not my cup of tea (obviously) but whatever floats their boat...

It is funny, but it's meant to be serious, I think. I think that these people, like you say, are really interested in saving souls.

Well, I guess I was talking about starting a website for communicating with your future life, and I reckon that's going to strike people as even more crazy! (except I was just kidding.) (except that nobody's ever really just kidding.)

[ogrekilleat]

Originally Posted by Dannyboy1

These people are absolutely sure they're among the top people who're going to be saved?

I always wonder why Christians who believe all that stuff about how horrible it will be would WANT to be saved. I'd consider myself saved if I were in fact removed from earth prior to any revelations-themed events. I recently looked at a book that included advice, by a self-identified Christian for "Surviving the Rapture". I was like, what's the point, if the end of the world is nigh, and the entire goal is to get to heaven anyway? I would think that at that point, death would be the preferable option.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by ogrekilleat

I was like, what's the point, if the end of the world is nigh, and the entire goal is to get to heaven anyway? I would think that at that point, death would be the preferable option.

Well, if you die without being saved, then you go to hell. So, no, death and eternal damnation would not be a preferred option.

[ogrekilleat]

Well, if you die without being saved, then you go to hell. So, no, death and eternal damnation would not be a preferred option.

But I mean, people who believe in the Rapture are probably Christian anyway. Because why would you believe in that most-difficult-to-believe part of the bible as literal truth and not the rest of it? (Full disclosure: I do not believe in the literal truth of the stuff in revelations)

[Matthew Shea]

Originally Posted by Angela

It is funny, but it's meant to be serious, I think. I think that these people, like you say, are really interested in saving souls.

Well, I guess I was talking about starting a website for communicating with your future life, and I reckon that's going to strike people as even more crazy! (except I was just kidding.) (except that nobody's ever really just kidding.)

I'm sure the creators of that site are extremely serious, possibly to the point of being fanatical (why start such a site otherwise). I've been acquainted with my fair share of such people and I'm glad I wasn't raised that way.

The concept of the "future life" website seems not much different to me for those that accept reincarnation, except you're trying to communicate with your own self instead of someone else.

[JSB]

Originally Posted by Angela

When the Rapture comes, maybe you'll want to leave a message for your friends who haven't been saved by accepting Jesus as their savior...to urge them to get on board real quick.

So, the appearance of a 900 foot tall fiery Jesus, millions of people being raptured up to heaven in a flash of light, and the world being overrun by the bloodthirsty armies of the Antichrist won't convince someone to repent, but a voicemail from their missing friend will?

What a fantastic money-making opportunity!

[Joeschmoe]

Wait, rapture? All the Christians in the world disappear? Who's going to be reading their email? Everyone is going to be out partying.

[schola]

Man I used to believe in that rapture stuff. The one thing that always bugged me was how friggin' cool those Left Behind books made it all sound. It made me want to stick around after the rapture!

I was like "Aw man. I wanna stay on Earth and fight the Anti-Christ with the other born agains. That would be awesome! Instead I'll be stuck in Heaven with Jesus and Grandma. "

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by ogrekilleat

But I mean, people who believe in the Rapture are probably Christian anyway. Because why would you believe in that most-difficult-to-believe part of the bible as literal truth and not the rest of it? (Full disclosure: I do not believe in the literal truth of the stuff in revelations)

The thing is that Jesus talked constantly about the Ascension. He didn't say that people would go to Hell (except by convoluted interpretations) but he did talk non-stop in the gospels about the coming time of ascension.

It doesn't make much sense to call yourself Christian while ignoring the words of Jesus.

He _didn't_ say that you had to "accept him as your personal savior" though. That was a fabrication by the author of John which is widely agreed to have been made up, whereas Matthew, Mark and Luke are based on telling the words of Jesus without distortion or interpretation.

In Matthew, Mark and Luke (the ones considered to be historically accurate by historians) Jesus does not talk about hellfire or evangelism or being the "only son of god" or being saved or being born again. But he does talk about the ascension.

[NightSpirit]

Originally Posted by JSB

So, the appearance of a 900 foot tall fiery Jesus, millions of people being raptured up to heaven in a flash of light, and the world being overrun by the bloodthirsty armies of the Antichrist won't convince someone to repent, but a voicemail from their missing friend will?

What a fantastic money-making opportunity!

I was reserving my opinion about the Rapture teaching because there are a lot of scriptures to be strung together to make it seem to be what's being said. Could be.

But, yea, wouldn't that be a great sign to get our attention, kinda merciful on the ones who go and a sign to the ones who didn't want to go. People are always fighting and we could credit Hollywood for the Jesus thing. But people disappearing? Unless it's only 5 or 10 people left then who believe, then no big deal.

[NightSpirit]

Originally Posted by yossarian

In Matthew, Mark and Luke (the ones considered to be historically accurate by historians) Jesus does not talk about hellfire or evangelism or being the "only son of god" or being saved or being born again. But he does talk about the ascension.

I'm trying to understand why you said this, because it's wrong. I hope you don't believe it. This is from Mark 16 Jesus to His disciples.

"Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

That's just one verse on just one of the subjects you mentioned. What Bible are you reading?

I know there are some who don't believe the verse is true but you're the first to say it's not even there.

[ogrekilleat]

Originally Posted by yossarian

It doesn't make much sense to call yourself Christian while ignoring the words of Jesus.

He often spoke in figurative language, and the truth is to be found by considering what might be meant by that figurative language, rather than taking it literally. I believe that is as true of the ascension as it is of the parables.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by NightSpirit

I'm trying to understand why you said this, because it's wrong. I hope you don't believe it. This is from Mark 16 Jesus to His disciples.

"Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

By believeth he was talking about believing the message. Not believing "in Jesus".

By damned he meant that the person would suffer in a Hell on Earth of their own making. Not be sent there by God for eternity.

The idea of Jesus being the "only" son of God and that we must be baptized in water in order to have eternal life is from John. John is widely agreed to have been heavily "spun" in comparison to Mark.

We are all children of God on equal footing with Jesus, we just have not awoken to that reality.

Mark supports this statement. John does not. Mark is considered to be closer to the source, while John is obviously heavily influenced by someone with doctrinal education and an agenda.

[NightSpirit]

Originally Posted by yossarian

By believeth he was talking about believing the message. Not believing "in Jesus".

By damned he meant that the person would suffer in a Hell on Earth of their own making. Not be sent there by God for eternity.

The idea of Jesus being the "only" son of God and that we must be baptized in water in order to have eternal life is from John. John is widely agreed to have been heavily "spun" in comparison to Mark.

We are all children of God on equal footing with Jesus, we just have not awoken to that reality.

Mark supports this statement. John does not. Mark is considered to be closer to the source, while John is obviously heavily influenced by someone with doctrinal education and an agenda.

We ARE all children of God on equal footing with Jesus, but what does "with Jesus" mean to you?

You seem to be saying that we are all with Jesus whether we know it or not and the only damnation we recieve is not following His message on how to live. And while there may be earthly consequences to not following the message, there will not be eternal consequences. Do I least understand you?
What does Mark say to support that statement?

If you want to believe that, go ahead. But to say that what you are saying is what the Bible says, unless you can support that from the Bible, is misleading people.

All of the 3 gospels you say are closer to the truth, talk about the baptism of repentance of John the baptist as a preparation for Jesus. And the reason for the cruxification, if not that He took the punishment for our sins? Are you saying the sins of the whole world are forgiven whether they repent or not?

Luke 24
45Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Mark 6
11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. 12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

Luke 21-one of the verses that is tied into the rapture idea
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

13 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

I don't really believe that you have to believe there is a heaven or hell to be saved from it. But if you think that Jesus came just to show us how to live, what happens if we don't. Personally, I see a whole lot of people living in oppostion, evil opposition, to what Jesus said, and they have no earthly hell and seem to have no remorse. OJ, Manson, Scott Peterson, Pedophiles, Rapists, etc. All they All on equal footing with God in Jesus and just don't know it? If we all go to heaven no matter what, will you please keep those guys on your side?

[yossarian]

When Jesus spoke of Hell in Mark I don't see any evidence to indicate that he meant an eternal Hell that could not be escaped.

Rather, Hell can be escaped at any time by following the teaching of Jesus.

Part of the disconnect between you and I is that I have a very nonstandard view of reality compared to mainstream Christians. Maybe it makes this discussion a pointless discussion, but whatever. We can probably both learn something

Let me make a list for you:

1. I believe in reincarnation.
2. I think John the Baptist was the reincarnation of Elijah.
3. Heaven represents a state of Ascension, which can be attained on Earth through perfect God communion of humanity. (And elsewhere as well)
4. Hell represents a sense of separation from God, where the suffering is worse the more you feel separated.
5. Sinning creates a sense of separation, even though you are never truly separate. (How can you ever be truly separated from an omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient God?)
6. Hell can certainly continue after this life. The Earth is not the only place to live in. But even after this life, by following Jesus' teachings we can escape Hell at any time. It is entirely our choice.
7. The Day of Judgment is the day of Ascension, when the Earth moves into the next realm of creation. This next realm is the Heavenly realm that we have been told so much about, but it is not the last realm.
8. Only those whose "Eye is Single" will be able to stay with the Earth when it moves into this heavenly realm. The Single Eye refers to the Third Eye being open with the chakras flowing freely making that person compatible with the Heavenly vibrations. A person whose Eye is Single is someone who uses their Third Eye to know God. This is someone who uses their imagination to know God, someone who prays or meditates and thereby becomes open to the Holy Spirit.
9. If you are not compatible with the Heavenly vibrations, you can't enter this Heavenly realm that the Earth becomes. You have to go elsewhere until you become compatible, at which point you can then enter.

I see a whole lot of people living in oppostion, evil opposition, to what Jesus said, and they have no earthly hell and seem to have no remorse. OJ, Manson, Scott Peterson, Pedophiles, Rapists, etc. All they All on equal footing with God in Jesus and just don't know it? If we all go to heaven no matter what, will you please keep those guys on your side?

I submit that these people suffer in ways you can't imagine. It is silent suffering, quiet desperation.

On top of that, in the next life (whether it is on Earth or not) they will continue to work with their suffering, and if they continue to make the same choices they have made, their suffering will deepen.

They won't be able to enter Heaven until they've purified themselves. However, one day they will do just that. God does not give up on his children. The prodigal sons will one day return and repent and be forgiven, even if it takes a million years of suffering. All suffering is self-inflicted; God does not punish. God is merciful and loving, and endlessly forgiving. God respects our free will, and often our free will puts us in a place of suffering. God will not abridge our right to choose suffering, but neither will he ever leave us or forget us or give up on us.

Matthew 20:16, "So the last shall be first, and the first last"

IMO the best thing that modern Christians can do for their own enlightenment is to look deeply at the difference between Mark and John, and decide which one resonates more with them. To me, Mark is a blueprint for liberation, while John is a blueprint for elitism.

[NightSpirit]

Originally Posted by yossarian

Part of the disconnect between you and I is that I have a very nonstandard view of reality compared to mainstream Christians. Maybe it makes this discussion a pointless discussion, but whatever. We can probably both learn something

God is merciful and loving, and endlessly forgiving. God respects our free will, and often our free will puts us in a place of suffering. God will not abridge our right to choose suffering, but neither will he ever leave us or forget us or give up on us.

Matthew 20:16, "So the last shall be first, and the first last"

Okay, I'll leave you to your beliefs, although I don't see all of that in the Bible. But we can never go wrong trusting in the mercy of God which it seems you are basing your beliefs upon. And either way we are talking about Jesus, and that's always good.

I am more literally based in my beliefs and think that the things that we don't know are just things that haven't been revealed to us yet...as it is with Isaiah 53 being about Him and some people couldn't see that. The disciples sometimes didn't get the meaning of what he was saying and they were face to face with Him, so a lot of the sticking points between us on earth are probably not really worth debating.

I have some rather non-traditional beliefs myself. I just can't say they are supported by the Bible. So many people have near death experiences and from what they describe, it's the same Jesus I know . They say they have a feeling of being offered a choice of whether to come in or go back and that seems like Him also. And I personally believe hell is not eternal and it is destroyed in the second death in Revelation but I can't sat that for sure
"God is merciful and with every temptation has made a way of escape", so maybe it will be as you say. I assume you think the drop of water on my tongue thing was a parable also.

If we are His child and open to His spirit and we are in error, He will guide us to the truth.