Can you be a Christian and do Intention/Manifestation?

[SmartAlx]

It seems to me that these two methodologies are mutually exclusive. Are there any strong Christians here practicing Intention/Manifestation? How do you reconcile the differences between the philosophies of giving your will to God and of taking control?

[Dan.Linehan]

What happens once you give over your will to God? He drops indications about what directions to go in, right?

Couldn't you use I-M to do God's will more effectively?

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

So what happens once you give over your will to God? He drops indications about what directions to go in, right?

Indeed, He does.

Couldn't you use I-M to do God's will more effectively?

I'm not following. The closest comparison I can think of is a prayer versus making an intention.

Isn't the methodology of IM something like, "I will this event to happen." It's a commanding sort of thinking, as if you are in control. Praying to God is a question. It's asking for permission. It's accepting our frailties and giving the power to God. It's humble.

I get the impression that IM does not allow for any humility.

IM is like telling your parent that you want a cookie.
Prayer is like asking your parent to give you a cookie.

That's my impression anyway. Am I wrong?

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Indeed, He does.
I'm not following. The closest comparison I can think of is a prayer versus making an intention.

Isn't the methodology of IM something like, "I will this event to happen." It's a commanding sort of thinking, as if you are in control. Praying to God is a question. It's asking for permission. It's accepting our frailties and giving the power to God. It's humble.

I get the impression that IM does not allow for any humility.

IM is like telling your parent that you want a cookie.
Prayer is like asking your parent to give you a cookie.

That's my impression anyway. Am I wrong?

Let's say God is directing you towards being an accountant, because there is so much fraud running rampant in the financial markets.

To achieve a reasonable impact in the field you know you'll need to be at least a CPA, possibly a MBA too.

So, while maintaining your faith in God, and with the understanding and knowledge that it is His path on which you are walking, you meditate, pray, visualize, focus, and take full responsibility for becoming a CPA.

The goal setting and visualization aspects would be I-M.

[ogrekilleat]

Praying to God is a question. It's asking for permission. It's accepting our frailties and giving the power to God. It's humble.

I disagree with this. God knows what the pray-er wants and what they need (which they themselves may not know, and they may even virulently disagree with God's assessment of the situation, if they but knew it), it knows the pray-ers will and more importantly, it knows its own will. I actually think most forms of prayer are an attempt to impose one's own will on God...sort of like a child, who thinks that if it asks enough times, it will get what it wants. That doesn't sound like humility to me.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

"Ask and it is given."

IM, sponsored by The Holy Bible.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

"Ask and it is given."

IM, sponsored by The Holy Bible.

Or the "holey" bible if you take it to the extreme and believe it literally.
But yeah. There it is.....

and...."greater works will ye do than I".
And don't forget this was the Big Kahuna himself sayin dat. Who was really just a very very smart mystical dude.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

"Ask and it is given."

IM, sponsored by The Holy Bible.

Isn't IM "tell and it is given?"

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

Let's say God is directing you towards being an accountant, because there is so much fraud running rampant in the financial markets.

To achieve a reasonable impact in the field you know you'll need to be at least a CPA, possibly a MBA too.

So, while maintaining your faith in God, and with the understanding and knowledge that it is His path on which you are walking, you meditate, pray, visualize, focus, and take full responsibility for becoming a CPA.

The goal setting and visualization aspects would be I-M.

Well, I'm on board with most of that, but what about going so far as proclaiming in a sort of ritualistic way "I will that my way be clear to me becoming an accountant." Isn't IM more direct and controlling than letting/hoping that it will happen? Isn't it sort of like directing energy or something?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Isn't IM "tell and it is given?"

No, it's more about asking and allowing. "Ask and It is Given", by the way, is the title of a very popular book on the subject.

For me, it's about ways of being rather than getting things and stuff, but I think I may be a minority in that.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by ogrekilleat

I disagree with this. God knows what the pray-er wants and what they need (which they themselves may not know, and they may even virulently disagree with God's assessment of the situation, if they but knew it), it knows the pray-ers will and more importantly, it knows its own will. I actually think most forms of prayer are an attempt to impose one's own will on God...sort of like a child, who thinks that if it asks enough times, it will get what it wants. That doesn't sound like humility to me.

Then why does the Bible tell us to pray?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Then why does the Bible tell us to pray?

I think prayer, like IM, is a focused and directed request as opposed to just letting the default and whatever you are unconsciously thinking happen.

I don't really see any reason why they should be mutually exclusive. I don't think that IM contradicts the Bible or Jesus at all.

[jawillie]

Originally Posted by Angela

No, it's more about asking and allowing. "Ask and It is Given", by the way, is the title of a very popular book on the subject.

For me, it's about ways of being rather than getting things and stuff, but I think I may be a minority in that.

I'm with ya, though I am playing around a bit. But, I am to a point where, it doesn't matter to me if the "stuff" materializes or not, I can "roll with it." Maybe that is me blocking the stuff from coming to me, but at least I am happy.

As far as Christianity and IM. I don't know. I am not a Christian. I use the Bible as a Spiritual teaching, much like the Tao te Ching and other such books. I see Jesus as a spiritual teacher like Buddha and others. So I am not much help.

[SmartAlx]

Are there any strong Christians here who practice IM the way it's described in the Intention-Manifestation forum: Basically calling out to the ether, "I want this."

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Are there any strong Christians here who practice IM the way it's described in the Intention-Manifestation forum: Basically calling out to the ether, "I want this."

When I was a strong Christian I did that. Just substitute God for ether.

[jawillie]

I have done a ton of exploring of IM and I guess I don't see that it is about "I want that." But that could just be me, I don't know. Seems pretty simplified to me, and I think there is a bit more to it than that. I don't know. That term bugs me, maybe someone with a bit more eloquency than I can explain? I don't go around saying "I want that" all day! I do pray. I do ask. I do have desires. I believe Christians have desires, too.

Are we getting all tangled up in "words" again?

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by jawillie

I don't go around saying "I want that" all day! I do pray. I do ask. I do have desires. I believe Christians have desires, too.

Everybody does. And everybody goes aroung asking, praying, wishing, stating things like "I want that." So what do you do that's special when you do I-M?

Are we getting all tangled up in "words" again?

Maybe.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

It seems to me that these two methodologies are mutually exclusive. Are there any strong Christians here practicing Intention/Manifestation? How do you reconcile the differences between the philosophies of giving your will to God and of taking control?

Jesus was a master manifester! Miracles are intentional manifestations, wouldn't you say?

The issue, I'm thinking, is that we mistakingly think IM means we get to tell the universe what we want from our ego - but that is not how it would work. Ego desires are illusions (since the ego is fabricated too) and faulty in terms of being backed by source.

After all the IM/LoA material says to detach from the outcome, don't have an attachment to the desire and an IM state is to feel as if you already have that which you desire - all of which is to say ask not from the ego but from Being and wholeness.

Irony is that to ask without the ego means to feel whole - and if you feel whole you don't have ego desires.

Jesus was more than the son of God, I'd say. He was able to be God (or know what creation really is), in a way. And he was trying to tell everyone anyone can do it. Then they made a religion out of it making the real Jesus message difficult to find.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. Matt 21:21

[ogrekilleat]

Then why does the Bible tell us to pray?

Actually, it tells us to pray using a specific form that is quite different from the usual prayer:

Matthew 6:7-13:

And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
This, then, is how you should pray:

'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. '

(Emphasis mine.)

[ogrekilleat]

Good quote, ATC.

I think the gist of this conversation that I'm getting is that one should not pray, but only go and boldly manifest good works. (I'm assuming that Christians choose to be Lightworkers, hence the manifesting of "good works" only.)

[Acting Like Godot]

Actually there are many forms of IM/LOA. The Christian form of prayer just happens to be one of them.

Therefore it is quite unsurprising that there are various LOA books written from the Christian perspective. One of them is "The Amazing Laws of Cosmic Mind Power" by Joseph Murphy, who was a church minister for 28 years of his life.

The book compiles dozens and dozens of accounts of people who came to him in his ministerial capacity, seeking guidance and advice on a wide range of problems. Essentially he would listen to the person's problem and then advise them how to pray to God about it. They'd pray in that way, and then the problem would solve itself, often in a quite startling, miraculous way.

If you read the last 3rd of the book, you're going to discover that Joseph Murphy says things like, "Pray using mental images. Pray with emotion. Pray as if the thing you're praying for has already arrived, or as if you're completely certain it's on it way. Pray with gratitude." Etc etc.

In other words, it's basically the same, usual LOA stuff.