Dating an Atheist

[amixa]

Hey...

So, I'm dating an atheist. Sometimes he says he thinks there is something more, but he doesn't feel it. I know atheists who are still spiritual.. but he has no sense of spirituality at all. I didn't think that was possible.. but I guess it is. He's very left brain oriented.. I'm definitely right brained. Its almost as if he blocks his right brain because he said he was very emotional as a kid and couldn't control it. (but he's not emotionally dead)
I just want him to understand me and who I am, because its a huge part of me but he can't conceive it. I'm frustrated because he is dating me, and wants to be with me but doesn't experience that huge side of me.
I tried getting him to read some of Steve's blogs and he read it but still can't get it (I know reading about it is different from experiencing it). I *did* get him The Little Prince for his birthday, crossing my fingers, hoping he was human AND he did enjoy the book.
Does anyone have any other suggestions? Like books that aren't directly 'teaching you'? (I tried Sand, Wind and Stars long ago but he found that too boring)
thanks for reading...

[Holistic Star]

My personal opinion is that it is a bad idea to try to change the person you are dating.

Could you accept and love him exactly as he is now without wanting him to change?

[amixa]

i don't mean to want to change him... i don't think that's what i'm trying to do.. i just want him to understand who i am... he doesn't have to take that path but just understand? (i definitely never wanted to be the girlfriend trying to change the boyfriend!!!!!!)
my atheist best friend (i'm surrounded by them!) wants to understand but she also shows signs of spirituality originally...
is it possible for someone to be naturally completely void of any spirituality?

[Spartan]

Originally Posted by amixa

is it possible for someone to be naturally completely void of any spirituality?

Yes, most definately! I am, and I take extreme pride in that fact! Please don't try to impose your 'new age' fangled beliefs on him.

[Rose of Cairo]

Hi amixa,

Originally Posted by amixa

I just want him to understand me and who I am, because its a huge part of me but he can't conceive it. I'm frustrated because he is dating me, and wants to be with me but doesn't experience that huge side of me.

You cannot conceive either how someone can be such a complete atheist, right? Are you really able to understand him and who he is?

Still, you want to date him and be with him, even though there's a huge side of him that you don't experience either.

So why is this a problem in one direction but not in the other one?

hoping he was human

I'm getting a feeling that you think he's wrong, or weird, or incomplete as a person and needs to be taught something. This is not a good premise for a loving, respectful relationship. I agree with Holistic Star, just accept him exactly as he is, or not at all.

Yes, it's possible to be naturally totally void of any spirituality.

[Brutha]

What is your religion?

What is his philosophy of life? His profession? What kind of books does he read?

[Holistic Star]

If you want him to experience that side of you, he will see it through your actions. He'll gain an understanding of that side of you when he sees how you act in certain situations, particularly when the pressure is on. Show him what you think and feel by being a shining example of what you believe.

I have to say your first post did sound a bit like you were trying to make him change his mind on how you see the world. If he's read some of Steve's site but isn't 'getting it' then I don't think there's much other material that would help.

[amixa]

Originally Posted by Spartan

Yes, most definately! I am, and I take extreme pride in that fact! Please don't try to impose your 'new age' fangled beliefs on him.

yeah sorry i didn't mean it in the sense that he was bad for not being so, i honestly thought that everyone was spiritual even if they're atheist. i don't expect him to take the same path as me just want him to understand more where i come from, because actually i really do understand where atheists come from (btw if you read Steve's definition of what it is to be spiritual, that includes *everyone*) i understand it to the point where i have trouble returning to the original level i had when i was growing up..

[amixa]

Originally Posted by Holistic Star

If you want him to experience that side of you, he will see it through your actions. He'll gain an understanding of that side of you when he sees how you act in certain situations, particularly when the pressure is on. Show him what you think and feel by being a shining example of what you believe.

I have to say your first post did sound a bit like you were trying to make him change his mind on how you see the world. If he's read some of Steve's site but isn't 'getting it' then I don't think there's much other material that would help.

yeah i didn't mean to make it sound like i was trying to change him at all.
he did understand it but i guess he found it almost overwhelming to a certain degree. your advice on him understanding me slowly through my actions is great.. thank you!!

[amixa]

Originally Posted by Brutha

What is your religion?

What is his philosophy of life? His profession? What kind of books does he read?

i'm not a part of any religion.
his philosophy of life is 'work sucks then you die' hahaha (sorry i'm quoting something if you don't know where its from) but very much so like that so he can be quite bitter some days.
he works at a starbucks.. but he got a degree in film and minor in art history so he clearly doesn't belong there but finds networking sleazy (although it doesn't have to be, i tell him at least)
he reads all sorts of books, humorous, novels, he's interested in philosophy but has a hard time motivating himself to read the books..

[jaamkie]

oh let him be let him be- and if you don't like it, then move on!

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by amixa

i just want him to understand who i am...

This makes me laugh. I want the same thing!

Only I've learned that saying "I just want him..." is underselling the problem.

I doubt there is ANY harder thing to do in life than truly be understood by another human being. I doubt there are any human beings that exist that are truly understood by another.

I wish people understood me, and I wish I understood other people. I can get closer than I am now, but it is by no means easy!

I would say being understood/understanding another is pretty much the hardest thing to do in the entire world! So good luck with that project of yours I have no good advice

[Sheamus]

Originally Posted by amixa

i don't mean to want to change him... i don't think that's what i'm trying to do.. i just want him to understand who i am...

Maybe the path to your enlightenment lies with you understanding who HE is.

[amixa]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Hi amixa,


You cannot conceive either how someone can be such a complete atheist, right? Are you really able to understand him and who he is?

I can understand atheists, I can relate to him on many levels but I think it would be easier if he knew how to relax (he inherited his mom's anxiety) to the point where he would get 2 hours of sleep a night when I first met him.

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Still, you want to date him and be with him, even though there's a huge side of him that you don't experience either.

So why is this a problem in one direction but not in the other one?

Well I didn't know it would become a huge factor because he is interested in things like art and philosophy... I can understand atheists to much of a degree and I can talk about things with them and we can still enjoy the same activities I guess spirituality is something kinda extra.. on the side.. and would be nice to share that with someone close too.. but if not share it at least understand it.
I was atheist for 4-5 years and it basically shut my body down -- slept for hours and hours, mystery aches and pains, always tired and didn't realize why I felt that way until it dawned on me and have been trying to restore it since then. So I understand why people are atheist but I just know I can't function like that.

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

I'm getting a feeling that you think he's wrong, or weird, or incomplete as a person and needs to be taught something. This is not a good premise for a loving, respectful relationship. I agree with Holistic Star, just accept him exactly as he is, or not at all.

ya sorry i didn't mean it to come out that way at all. (not to repeat myself but i explained more in other responses) i guess people have different definitions of what spirituality is. so there's steve's version, there are other people's versions.. some people think that spirituality only is about believing in god and other things like angels, then there's the belief that spirituality is intertwined with self realization and expressing themselves through whatever medium. so i guess spirituality is really personally defined and i guess the version i was referring to was to express your emotions and express yourself -- basically what makes you *you* compared to any other animal (including humans) beyond survival and things that are 'normal' to perform life tasks

anyway i didn't mean to come off as atheists are inhuman or anything like that.. i really worded it poorly and i hope i didn't word anything else poorly

[amixa]

Originally Posted by Sheamus

Maybe the path to your enlightenment lies with you understanding who HE is.

ahaha this could be true too.. i wont' dismiss the possibility! i will keep that in mind

[Gayathri]

Is he a kind person? Does he have empathy for fellow beings? Is he forgiving and grateful? Then he is indeed spiritual in my book. As I see it, we can embrace spirituality in everyday life whether or not we believe in it

[fellowtraveler]

Originally Posted by amixa

So, I'm dating an atheist. Sometimes he says he thinks there is something more, but he doesn't feel it...thanks for reading...

Put me down in the "leave it be" column. You can have a perfectly fine life together and never, ever see eye-to-eye on certain topics. Trust me, lol...

The fact that he "thinks" there is something more means that he is open to it; and, when the time is right, he will probably feel it. I was "ripe" for beginning to understand for a good 25 years...then one day someone said the right words to me, and I was off and running, so to speak.

(BTW, the right words in my case were: "You get to say what you believe.")

[SonoranBob]

Originally Posted by amixa

his philosophy of life is 'work sucks then you die' ... but very much so like that so he can be quite bitter some days.
he works at a starbucks.. but he got a degree in film and minor in art history so he clearly doesn't belong there but finds networking sleazy (although it doesn't have to be, i tell him at least)
he reads all sorts of books, humorous, novels, he's interested in philosophy but has a hard time motivating himself to read the books..

Personally I'm thinking that his block on intuitive / spiritual experience may be the least of your future problems. It isn't so much that he is an empiricist that will wear thin after awhile, as his general negative, almost nihilist mind-set. That can really get old and even pull you down if you are trying to be hopeful and positive. He finds life less than impressive; nothing motivates him; he's working at Starbucks because that's the path of least resistance. He finds other people distasteful ("networking is sleazy") -- so he has a cloak of ennui that places him outside of, if not above, it all. He may be (or may become) depressed, too.

I would think carefully about whether you are strong enough to deal with that long-term and whether you want to put that much effort into a relationship anyway. How does this guy enhance you, as he is? The only reason to take on the overhead, commitment and risk of an intimate relationship is if you can enhance each other's lives, sustainably, beyond the initial attraction. It sounds to me like this guy might need too much taking care of. He may end up feeding off your spark of life without putting nearly as much back in.

My $0.02 plus inflation, for what it's worth (or not).

--Bob

[amixa]

Originally Posted by SonoranBob

Personally I'm thinking that his block on intuitive / spiritual experience may be the least of your future problems. It isn't so much that he is an empiricist that will wear thin after awhile, as his general negative, almost nihilist mind-set. That can really get old and even pull you down if you are trying to be hopeful and positive. He finds life less than impressive; nothing motivates him; he's working at Starbucks because that's the path of least resistance. He finds other people distasteful ("networking is sleazy") -- so he has a cloak of ennui that places him outside of, if not above, it all. He may be (or may become) depressed, too.

I would think carefully about whether you are strong enough to deal with that long-term and whether you want to put that much effort into a relationship anyway. How does this guy enhance you, as he is? The only reason to take on the overhead, commitment and risk of an intimate relationship is if you can enhance each other's lives, sustainably, beyond the initial attraction. It sounds to me like this guy might need too much taking care of. He may end up feeding off your spark of life without putting nearly as much back in.

My $0.02 plus inflation, for what it's worth (or not).

--Bob

thanks i do appreciate that.
and i definitely notice that too. i've recently suggested he needs to talk to a counsellor (although he doesn't think he needs one, he thinks he's being realistic) so i'm hoping he goes because i know there will be trouble in the future if he doesn't.

[Syr]

First of all, there's no model-atheist, one can be quite a science-buff while the other is spiritual (besides Richard Dawkins pointed out that christians are atheists as well: to pagan gods, but atheists like him go one or several gods further (1:24 to 1:54 in this video).

Anyway, what are his passions? And I mean true passions, something he talks enthusiasticly about or makes him light up? If so, try to nudge him in that direction.

If he keeps moaning about his job without actually do something to change the situation: is he worthy of you and your precious energy/time?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by amixa

thanks i do appreciate that.
and i definitely notice that too. i've recently suggested he needs to talk to a counsellor (although he doesn't think he needs one, he thinks he's being realistic) so i'm hoping he goes because i know there will be trouble in the future if he doesn't.

Amixa, you are *shoulding* this guy and your relationship to death!

Your relationship is doomed to no love and no freedom as long as you insist that your partner "needs" to do anything that he's not doing. He doesn't need to do what you think he needs to do. You know how I know? Because he's not doing it. "There will be trouble if he doesn't" do what you want him to do -- Amixa, what you are creating with this thought is not what I think you want to create in a loving, long-term, mutually beneficial relationship, is it? Predicting dire consequences if your partner doesn't fall in line with what you want?

And as others have hinted, you seem very attached to the idea of him understanding you, but your desire to understand him is very limited. Most telling of all: nowhere in what you say about him is an expression of your loving or even liking him.

I think you are really powerful to have created this relationship, because it looks like a great opportunity for your own personal growth. And -- if you are unable or unwilling to accept him exactly as he is and exactly as he isn't, to let go of controlling him and to generate freedom, then you're not generating love, but rather, frustration and resentment.

The good news is that you have the power (and I think you have the desire, too) to create a wonderful LLTMBR, all on your own -- without him having to do or change a thing about himself. Are you willing to take that on? If you're not, the fair and loving thing to do would be to let him go with love, so that you're both free to look for a better match.

Best wishes with this...

[Brutha]

he works at a starbucks.. but he got a degree in film and minor in art history so he clearly doesn't belong there but finds networking sleazy (although it doesn't have to be, i tell him at least)

Did his self esteem suffer?
From that description he probabably oesn't think much of himself. Maybe he needs to believe in himself?
If that is that case it helps when you believe in him.