Time Doesn't Exist

[zeitgeist]

It is somewhat ironic that I of all people write about time. Pretty much all my life I have been persecuted by time, or the lack thereof. I rarely have nightmares, but if I do, it is always the same recuring theme: I study for an exam and there is not enough time to prepare for it and the clock is ticking. Given this backdrop, you can imagine how attracted I am to the often quoted insight that spirituality can supposedly transcend time. For me Taosim is all about timing: when you are in the zone, you may as well throw your watch into the trash, because the timing of all your activities is just perfect. The link below also shares a story from Vivekanand, which makes the point that when it comes to God our notion of time and our logic just doesn't apply.


Reflections

[Angela]

Pretty funny, considering that your name means "Time Spirit."

[Plato]

Here is an attempted proof by an analytic philosopher that time isn't real

The Unreality of Time

[Restrikted]

Well of course time doesn't exist! If I were to ask you in person to tell me the correct time "now," you can't, since as you are telling me, the future has already become the past, therefore there is no present, therefore TIME DOESN'T EXIST! Idea courtesy of the 1994 movie "I.Q."

I think instead of asking whether or not time exists, we should ask, what are the implications if time does or does not exist, and does it really matter?

I'm also really interested in the idea that a broken clock tells the correct time twice a day, while a working clock, depending on it's accuracy, is correct a lot less of the time. If a working clock were off by .000000000001 seconds, it would need to continually run until it was off by exactly 24 hours or exactly 0 hours to actually show the correct time. So, most working clocks are actually wrong for significantly longer periods of time than broken clocks. Figure that one out. Going on this, we should all theoretically use broken clocks to tell time because they are right more times than working clocks lol.

[Anagogy]

Time is the concept derived from the perception of change. No change = no time.

[jfallingstar]

so funny because its so true. a reason why I don't wear a watch...

[Dannyboy1]

When did they decide that?

[stellasky]

Originally Posted by Angela

Pretty funny, considering that your name means "Time Spirit."

I understood that "zeitgeist" is the same as saying "sign of the times" or something like that...

[Angela]

Originally Posted by stellasky

I understood that "zeitgeist" is the same as saying "sign of the times" or something like that...

Yes, it means the spirit or feeling or general agreement of the era. Literally it means "time spirit" - right, Brutha?

[zeitgeist]

I have always liked the word Zeitgeist; but actually, it is only now that I perceive this massive spiritual wave affecting so many people at the same time, that I understand how connected we all are: this is the very meaning of Zeitgeist.

[TheOpusMovieCommunity]

i can't wait til time runs out and the mass spiritual awakening happens. if it doesn't i'll be very disappointed

[Andrew Brunelle]

Time only exists if we perceive it to exist. If someone ever asks me what time it is, I say now. One simple word. It is the only time that will ever be. Tomorrow is now, yesterday was now, etc.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by TheOpusMovieCommunity

i can't wait til time runs out and the mass spiritual awakening happens. if it doesn't i'll be very disappointed

Time has already "run out". There was never any time anyway.

NOW is all there is and from this never-ending NOW you are generating what you have been taught you're whole life, namely the "past" and the "future".

Societal's concept of "time" is simply a wrong Idea. That's all.

[cadmar]

Time, to me, is change, from one position to another, from one spin to another. I look at time as an arrow cursor on the monitor. If I took 20 pictures of the the arrow cursor at different position and I told someone to place them in order. The person can because he/she has all 20 pictures. If I give the same person only 2 pictures, he/she will not know which direction is the start or end. If I give just 1 picture. Nothing has moved.

Time, for us, we look at not in a single frame but a series from the big bang till now. We get evolution, we get orbits, we get a direction of time of things ending and a new phoenix arising out of the ashes of the old.

We do experience change and clumsily call it time. Going backward in time means that eveything has to put into reverse or we're able to fold this world and punch a hole into it, or we're able to go faster than the speed of light, catch the light's reflection from earth, being able to analyse that light's reflection and get a movie picture of our past without participating in it.

[dave marshall]

not sure about this idea that 'time' is not real if it leads to a denial of how we experience reality, infact I am sure that a denial of any aspect of reality is not uselful.

To say that 'time' is not real' or an illusion is just too glib and easy, we do experience reality in a certain fashion and that fashion is real, isn't it?

To explore this a bit, just clarify, let's say that 'clock time' is not real but events are and that we do experience events in a certain fashion, in linear terms, one event after another, so we can say that 'time' and 'events' are not the same thing....

however because we are within an enviroment where we do experience events in a certain fashion, that fashion we call 'time', to deny time is to deny our own creaturehood, to deny how we percieve reality.

in my experience denying any aspect of our experience leads to a denial of the self, or part of the self and so I would suggest that it may be interesting and more uselful, to fully accept we that 'time', the experience of events is real and by accepting that idea we gain more control over the events of our lives, which will be experienced one event after another: within a 'time' context.

Denying one's enviroment or any aspect of it cannot lead to an expansion of cosnciousness because to understand experience, one has to 'own' it and embrace it, in doing so you can explore it and learn how it is created.

Time, does exist for us in some fashion, owing to the nature of reality and how we perceive it and so why deny something that is real to us??? I can fully accept that the effects of 'time' should be explored and challenged but whatever you say, here we do experience events based in a time context, shouldn't we be accepting and understanding how that works rather than denying it? Once we accept that events are experienced within some fashion we are then able to understand why we have ourselves engaged within a reality this is focused into the experience we call 'time'

Even if you do not wear a watch you have memories of what happened' yesterday' and you are planning, in some fashion what you going to do in the next ten minutes, two hours ot next week. We cannot get away from the experience we call time, so i would suggest that even if time does noe exist within the context we have been taught, it does exist in some fashion and for a reason. Denying it exists at all, is just not sensible or the way to fully understand the true nature of time and how experience reality.


Dave

[cadmar]

Time does exist in the sense that you are sensing change. The events you experience have changed from the previous events. Thus you experienced the change. The patterns in your brain have changed from the other patterns in the brain. Time is this experience of change.

Memories are different from each other as they have different neuron patterns. If they do not have different neuron patterns then it will all be the same.

As I'm typing this reply, my neuron patterns are always changing. I notice this change. Because I am used to looking at a clock, watch, or the movement of the sun, moon, clouds, I will put this change into a linear time unit.

I'm not denying time if you look it as the amount of change from one event (position, spin, decay) to another (position, spin, decay). Time, of itself, does not exist.

To me this explains that quarks can go backwards in time. Quarks do not actually go into the past, say, a minute ago, nor a nano-second ago. To me, it means, that instead of decaying, the quarks captured some other energy.

To me this helps to explain change at a distance that time and distance does not matter as the two photons behave as if the two could be billions of light years away or right next to each other.

[dave marshall]

how does that help you in your daily life though? Am not disagreeing with you that time is only experience through change but how does this help you to live a fuller and happier life?

Dave

[cadmar]

I don't know if the two can connect: time and a fuller and happier life? On a practical term, I still set my alarm clock. Once, without any prompting, I grasped all at once thirty years. Only for a split second. Never happened again.

My attitude towards life is focusing on "change" and not looking at my life as years ahead of me or years wasted. Just changes in my personal life. It's kind of like that dvd on "Secret". Have you seen or read that book on "Secret"? I think that's what it's called. Throughout the last 2 thousand years or so, it's about the secrets known only by a few that thoughts/wishes can come true. Your thoughts can somehow manipulate your reality.

[lasti]

Originally Posted by Angela

Yes, it means the spirit or feeling or general agreement of the era. Literally it means "time spirit" - right, Brutha?

That's absolutely right. (I'm German)

[stellasky]

Originally Posted by Angela

Yes, it means the spirit or feeling or general agreement of the era. Literally it means "time spirit" - right, Brutha?

Yes, literally zeit=time and geist=spirit..I speak a wee bit of german...

And, it's apropos to now, as it does seem like the spirit (feeling, sign) of the time (era) is a growing awareness of conciousness towards a more spiritual life...at least it is for me..A great phrase...

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by cadmar

Time, for us, we look at not in a single frame but a series from the big bang till now.

The "big bang" is constantly being created from your Now, as is everything else.

Think of it this way. If you were as Science tells you.....you would not be able to be conscious.

How can you be aware, if your NOW is continually slipping into the "past" and the "future"?

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by dave marshall

not sure about this idea that 'time' is not real if it leads to a denial of how we experience reality, infact I am sure that a denial of any aspect of reality is not uselful.

Thats' because you have misunderstood what I have said.


I'll repeat it:

NOW is all there is and from this never-ending NOW you are generating what you have been taught you're whole life, namely the "past" and the "future".

Societal's concept of "time" is simply a wrong Idea. That's all.

[mercuryrising]

Originally Posted by dave marshall

how does that help you in your daily life though? Am not disagreeing with you that time is only experience through change but how does this help you to live a fuller and happier life?

Dave

If you were wealthy like a Rothschild, what would time mean to you? I think it's appropriate to make this concept more than just wax philosophic. I'm glad you asked.

I've wondered if our concept of time is something we are conditioned to believe so that we'll go to work... the belief 'time is money'.

And why don't we say 'space is money'? Perhaps if we rearrange space instead of managing time, money or value takes on a different meaning.

Just speculating...

[MrNotebook]

...time does not exist. We just "are". Man created time as a means of measurement. Measurement of change and measurement for human decision-making purposes.

"Time" (as we know it) is the basis behind almost everything. Not having time would confuse our communication a bit. If you think about it, much of our communication is based on time, either explicitly or implicitly. Without time how would you describe how to meet up with someone (you would only have "place")?

Essentially, its a grand numerical measurement system of sorts that helps in terms of successfully cooperating in a given civil society. If we never created time and just let things "be", we might've been living in a much more peaceful earth.

Thats my perception/belief of what time is.

[cadmar]

From all the above conversations, I think we all agreed that time has something to do with change and its measurement. Time is money because we can make changes and charge some financial reward to it. Space, I can't do anything with it. So, how can I make money off of it?

We are always changing and the world around us is constantly changing, for the good or bad, or for strength or weakness. So how are we just "are" amidst all this change when we, our physical bodies, are also changing?

How can I just sit spiritually without this change? Or, do I just say, I don't have to change as I have already arrived and I just don't know it?

Help me on this one?

[jawillie]

Whoa.. I have been stuck on this whole time thing for days and then I read you guys are talking about it. Cool!

I am still stuck, though. I don't think I am as awake as you guys.

I get that "clock time" is made up.

But... we age.
Animals and plants, grow, age and die.

So you are saying those are just "changes" not based on time. ?

I just can't grasp this one!

[Cantando]

Time is an integral part of the make up of this energy/space continuum we call the physical universe. There is a pulsation of existence in all things, right down to the sub atomic level.

There are circadian rhythms built into our genes which resonate with the pulsations of the universe. As long as we have a human brain in this life, we organize our thoughts and experiences sequentially to be able to make sense of them. Our brains wouldn’t be able to handle it if we experienced everything simultaneously in the ‘now’. We would basically crack up.

Have you noticed how in dreams, this sequential organization often breaks down, and we experience concurrent sensations and events which don’t seem to make any sense?

If we say time doesn’t exist, then we would have to say that the universe doesn’t exist either, which then leads us to the oft discussed question about what is reality, illusion, etc.

[dave marshall]

Hi,

no the changes you experience are not based in 'time' as we were taught, they are based in the experience of an unfolding identity that is based within a context of linear events, those linear events unfold and are experienced based on an individual's beleifs. Therefroe we do not have to have the experience alotted to time like poor health as we move through our reality, but we will still experience 'events-ourselves' in an experience that is placed in a linear fashion. You can play around with the idea of time/events and you will get some strange experience, but I would not want to live like that all the 'time'. Through exploring 'time' I have grown to really like it and how I can use it.

I my first post though i was refering to the idea that time does not exist, rather than your post infintae, your post i would agree with.

Dave

[MrNotebook]

Originally Posted by jawillie

But... we age.
Animals and plants, grow, age and die.

So you are saying those are just "changes" not based on time. ?

Precisely. Changes are just an attribute (characteristic) of existence that we assign to the man-made variable of "time". Ever since our creation of time, we have become so dependant on time, we cannot (and never will) understand existence without it. I believe changes simply "occur".

One's argument may be that there is a past and future, true. But consider the fact that they are both dependant on "now". So, it makes me think...is there really a past and future? I think the past and future are just simply things we do or not do.

[dave marshall]

in quite literal terms there is only now, the 'past and the future' are created in this ever present moment. You create the past in the same ways as you create the future, the fact that we experience these events in linear terms is a product of our perception and nurological functions, not the existence of time itself,

Dave