How do you see without eyes?

[Cantando]

The principle aim of meditation (from what I understand) is to be in a totally static state, where the mind is completely at rest. Consciousness at this point may become so detached from the body and the world that the body dies. This is mentioned in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali.

If consciousness then, at this stage (enlightenment?), has no sensory apparatus, is it able to see, hear and feel? As soon as consciousness responds to a sensory stimulus, is it back in the world of illusion and duality?

If you were born blind, would you be able to see in your dreams? Is vision a purely physical, sensory function?

[fwellers]

Wow!! Excellent questions. They immediately struck me as worthy of thought.
I have no answers for you, but am interested in seeing what some of the people have to say.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by fwellers

Wow!! Excellent questions. They immediately struck me as worthy of thought.
I have no answers for you, but am interested in seeing what some of the people have to say.

I don't have any answers (yet!), but other questions that came to mind are:

We use the term, 'The mind's eye'. How do we see in our mind?
Can we still 'see' with the mind after bodily death?
How do psychics and remote viewers 'see' things that are far away?

[Mato Kinze]

Wow. There have been libraries full of books written on that question. I don't know how to post an answer that will have meaning in a forum such as this (I tried, but stopped after I'd written about five pages worth of text and was still only at the beginning.)

There is a difference between seeing and seeing. The former is done with the simple five senses. The latter is done with one's total perception. This total perception includes much more than sight, sound, touch, taste, and smell. It's a perception that has to do with an innate connection to and understanding of that which is indescribable to simple five senses but is real nonetheless.

Carlos Castaneda dealt extensively with seeing in most of his books. That could be a place to start.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Cantando

Is vision a purely physical, sensory function?

Close your eyes and imagine overlooking a vast landscape from a mountain top, what do you "see"?

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

Close your eyes and imagine overlooking a vast landscape from a mountain top, what do you "see"?

In my mind's eye, I see beautiful snow capped mountains, with verdant valleys and chequered fields.

[bellemeadows]

Originally Posted by Cantando

The principle aim of meditation (from what I understand) is to be in a totally static state, where the mind is completely at rest. Consciousness at this point may become so detached from the body and the world that the body dies. This is mentioned in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali.

If consciousness then, at this stage (enlightenment?), has no sensory apparatus, is it able to see, hear and feel? As soon as consciousness responds to a sensory stimulus, is it back in the world of illusion and duality?

If you were born blind, would you be able to see in your dreams? Is vision a purely physical, sensory function?

Joel S. Goldsmith, a rather mystical healer who meditated for decades, said we don't really see with the eyes. What proved that to him personally, was he had the consistent experience when he was meditating of seeing the entire world around him; just as he would have if his eyes were open.

He's an interesting read. Blessings from Belle,

[mercuryrising]

Originally Posted by Cantando

In my mind's eye, I see beautiful snow capped mountains, with verdant valleys and chequered fields.

If you remove the mountains, valleys and chequered fields, what is there? What do you see?

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by mercuryrising

If you remove the mountains, valleys and chequered fields, what is there? What do you see?

A gaping hole in the landscape!

As I am creating the image in my mind's eye, I can rearrange it as I wish, or I can just close it down and picture something else, or open my eyes, or whatever. An external, physical stimulus, also, may cause the image to change drastically (as in a dream).

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by bellemeadows

What proved that to him personally, was he had the consistent experience when he was meditating of seeing the entire world around him; just as he would have if his eyes were open.

Do you think, then, that there is a difference between seeing in the mind's eye (imagination?) and the ability (if that is to be believed) to see distant objects in everyday reality without the aid of one's eyes?

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by Cantando

If you were born blind, would you be able to see in your dreams? Is vision a purely physical, sensory function?

I think that "vision" as we conceptualize and utilize it in the physical plane starts out as a purely physical sensory function, but after an incarnation has occurred and a consciousness has inhabited a body with this type of sensory apparatus, it can then, from that point, be virtually reconstructed.

Sensory systems translate raw data in a specific way and then deliver the "translation" to the consciousness interfaced with said structure in a mechanical like fashion. But after the body has been shed, that point of consciousness can summon (usually automatically as a sort of habit) the perception of physical sight, which then reflexively creates a "virtual structure" (like an astral body) that functions much like the physical one did in life.

[bellemeadows]

Originally Posted by Cantando

Do you think, then, that there is a difference between seeing in the mind's eye (imagination?) and the ability (if that is to be believed) to see distant objects in everyday reality without the aid of one's eyes?

He, per his books, was totally surprised to be able to see his room in the dark with his eyes closed. At first it seemed odd, but then it happened over and over again.

Goldsmith was pretty miraculous; he had sooo many miraculous healings occur, that he never billed for his services, and went all over the world teaching and healing. My parents saw him in person a number of times, and my mother said he was soooo non-charismatic -- just a little jewish guy from NYC, who would sit and talk. My mom said she watched him one day, and the white light began to eminate from his head when he was speaking, and soon the light filled the room.

He is an interesting man; well worth reading his books.

Blessings from Belle,

[Loki]

To answer one question, you don't see images in your dreams if you're born blind. Proven fact. You're other questions stump me though.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Loki

To answer one question, you don't see images in your dreams if you're born blind. Proven fact.

That's an interesting point and one which would be a good argument against reincarnation.

If I was born blind, wouldn't I be seeing all sorts of past life images and memories in my dreams (especially as a child, when this life's experiences hadn't kicked in to any great extent)?

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by Loki

To answer one question, you don't see images in your dreams if you're born blind. Proven fact. You're other questions stump me though.

They don't "see" images in the sense that a sighted person "sees" but they have dreams in images that make sense to them. A person who can't see still experiences the world around them and the mind creates an internalized experience for them that - for lack of a better word - "Paints" a picture in their "mind's eye" of their surroundings. They dream in the same context.

Sight is only one way in which we experience that world around us. We have four other simple senses and a whole array of other senses that science has yet to define. Losing one - ie. sight - does not keep us from experiencing the world.

[coLLege kid07]

sorry misinterpreted the question.