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05-09-2008, 10:26 PM
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 Organic crop sales in the US were $6 Billion in 2007. That's pretty big. There are mature farms in my area earning seven figure revenues with only 10-20 acres.
__________________ Best, Dan Linehan      |
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05-09-2008, 11:46 PM
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The terrain is not suitable for farming, It's classified as "highly erodable land" , the improvements we made to the property in the form of establishing bermuda grass and winter grasses is beneficial to both the land and cattle. We have one plot about 40 acres in size that was just a huge red clay gulley when my dad bought the farm, now it has pine trees that are over 2 feet in diameter and is a haven for deer and wild turkeys. We'll definately leave the place better than we found it. I like raising cattle, I enjoy working with the animals, taking care of them, helping deliver calves when necessary etc.... And I never lose sight of the fact that one day they will give their bodies back to the food chain. All I'm really doing is moving energy from one life form to another. As I've said before ,"It's better to have lived and died than to have never lived at all." and none of the several thousand animals that have come through our small farm over the years would have ever smelled the fresh air, or summer heat or cool nights without my "intention" to bring them into being. Their death is a brief instant at the end of a fairly pleasant life.
__________________ ~There is no spoon~ |
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05-10-2008, 01:26 AM
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| Nice job improving your land! Leaving things better off than when you arrived is a big deal in life. Quality of life for livestock is a concern. Inhumane living conditions on farms really get to me. When a pig, an animal as intelligent as a three or four year old child, is caged into an area so small that it can't even turn around, and is then kept there for years until slaughter, something isn't right. It sounds like you take great care of your animals. That's refreshing, good on you. Meat production as an industry tends to stand out as having some issues when you compare it against the alternatives. Generally speaking, raising cattle uses huge amounts of freshwater (some estimates claim 2,500 gallons per pound, others say only 500 gallons,) lots of antibiotics (look where that has taken us with MRSA,) the prion issues I mentioned before, the health issues (heart disease is America's number one killer and is directly caused by a meat based diet,) etc. It's not that I want to critique how you live. Just the opposite, it sounds like you lead a very happy and fulfilled life. But ethically speaking, I have to assert that even though you treat your animals well it doesn't mean that the product you are offering into the marketplace is healthy for people.
__________________ Best, Dan Linehan |
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05-10-2008, 03:34 AM
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On our 240 acres we have 18 ponds, 3 are over 3 acres in size the rest are deep fresh water, so , we're not using anyones drinking water, and until they reach the feedlot this is the case. They do compute the water used for irrigating corn into this so the number could be high, I'll look for a reliable study on this. My 17 years employed in a hospital taught me a lot about bacteria, resistance, and common sense. MRSA's likely cause is over-prescription of antibiotics and their improper use (not completing the course) in humans , not animals. I know for a fact that it used to be common practice to continuously feed low levels of antibiotics to cattle which does speed growth , but, the problem was, of course , cattle diseases like bovine influenza (shipping fever) and a few others became increasingly difficult to treat (in cattle), these are not things humans get. The effects ,on humans, of bovine antibiotic use is overblown, not over-reported because it never was reported to be as problematic as the propagandist claim, it was just overblown by them. And as for mad cow disease, you are probably 1 million times more likely to be hit by a drunk driver than get B.E., so PETA's efforts would be much more efficient at saving lives if they were directed at the alcohol industry. I would have more respect for them if they were honest and just said "I think it's wrong because they are cute and cuddly" rather than their distortion of (or outright invention of) data to bolster their position, and their shock videos that try to paint the whole industry with a wide brush. Those things are so effective that if I could (hypothetical here) prove they staged them all, there would still be people who would swear they were legit just because of the gut level impact that had on them.
__________________ ~There is no spoon~ |
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05-10-2008, 10:51 AM
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| Anyone keep up with the research into cloned meat? One such website is New Harvest - Advancing Meat Substitutes |
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05-10-2008, 12:57 PM
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Chickens that are not free ranging, also, are treated most disgusting. They are in such close quarters that they can't even spread their wings. The stress causes them to beak each other into the head, thus the practice of sanding most of their beaks off, which I understand is also very very painful. Their whole entire lives, crammed together so close they die from each other's weight. Fed so much hormones that they get too heavy for their own bones to support their weight. As you say, something is not right. If the truth is anywhere even close to these descriptions ( which I suspect it is in large factory hen farming ), then the practice is just savage and vile. We have international laws that prevent us treating our enemies, or even the worst violent criminals a hundred times more humanely than that.
__________________ Peace, Floyd |
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05-10-2008, 01:52 PM
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Those who don't eat meat and do so because of the purported health benefits are by definition more conscious of their need to take action to be healthy. As a result, they WILL be. People who have a well-balanced diet - meat included - exercise regularly and care for their bodies will be just as healthy as any vegatarian. |
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05-13-2008, 02:31 AM
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| I'm a vegetarian, as I've transitioned from being a non-vegetarian earlier in my life. The only reason I switched was because I took a '30 day trial' (pre-Pavlina Era)  As with anything, I consider the best knowledge as experiential knowledge. I took myself as a scientist and my body as my lab subject. I took out meat for 30 days and it was tough at first, but I soon realized that I simply felt better at the end of the trial. I felt like I had more energy because it seemed as though my body was using less energy for digestion, which left more energy for me to use. I also noticed that I had more clarity in my thoughts and less negative emotions. I also became more calm and patient as a result. So I don't know too much about ethics, but I'd recommend everyone to do experiments with their own bodies. I totally agree that one shouldn't listen to strangers simply because they say that one thing is better than something else. In my case, my body reacted positively to a vegetarian diet. And subsequently tried the same thing with milk and dairy products and found that Vegan was better for my body after my 'experiment'. Listen to your body, do your own experiments. From your research, if you find that one option is better than the other, then you know what's 'right' for your body. Everybody is different, but don't discount the 'try before you buy' method. 
__________________ No Nonsense.  |
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05-13-2008, 08:09 AM
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| I always told myself: if I am to continue eating meat, I must at least once slaughter an animal with my own hands. If I can bring myself to do it, I deserve the meat I put in my mouth. |
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05-13-2008, 08:30 AM
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| Hi, I am a vegetarian but I do not judge those that eat meat. I would like to discuss the points you made in this post. Quote:
Do you agree that videos like those of PETA at least help awake human consciousness so that more and more people try to find out where their food came from, and buy their meat from places where the animals haven't been grossly mistreated, and make them want to buy meat from farms like your own? If PETA went around publicizing videos of good, clean farms only, don't you think it would make people think that is how EVERY farm works, even though a whole lot of them aren't like that? Don't you think PETA and others are doing a great job making people aware of the cruelties that go on in this world and help them make more informed choices? Quote:
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 How the LOA does get twisted!  Once more want to clarify that it is not a personal attack, just stating my opinion regarding some points you made. Cheers, Gayathri.
__________________ Personality Development, Growth, Success. www.gayathrimoosad.com The Personality Development Workbook |
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05-13-2008, 12:46 PM
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However, I would honor that animal, and be grateful for it providing its body for me to eat. I would always treat it respectfully, and with kindness and compassion. I think, for me, I have chosen the path of compassion for all as best I can. In addition to being kind and compassionate about animals, how about we get kind and compassionate about man's inhumanity to man? Mankind is as harsh and severe to his neighbor in some parts of the world as to animals. It is what it is. My wish is to walk this earth in the most compassionate, ethical, integrous manner I can, and to set the highest example for myself and others possible. In this moment, managing me to be that person that is kind and compassionate to myself and others is my priority -- plus I don't wear fur, but I do wear leather shoes. . . . Blessings from Belle, |
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05-13-2008, 02:13 PM
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At first, it was weird and a little disturbing - for a city-bred kid like me - to hear her say things like, "Mmmm, Polly sure tastes good tonight," or "Hey... what do y'all think of Masie's leg?" But as I grew up, not only did it seem to make more sense, but also more respectful. What I get now as an adult, is that she was teaching me what our place was in the Great Circle - at least with regards to these particular animals. And she was teaching me in a very experiential way that we are all connected and that what we consume had a life and identity of its own. And she was teaching me to understand, respect and be grateful for the sacrifice of that being. |
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05-13-2008, 06:27 PM
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If PETA would be honest I would have no problem with them , but they are not. I could make a video about childbirth that would make many people reluctant to have a baby, childbirth is traumatic for both mother and child but that doesn't mean "babies are bad". PETA has cherry-picked some awful examples of human behavior and tried to pass it off as the way all farming is done, it simply is not true. If they would visit 100 of those places and give an accurate report of what they found they would not be as successful at shocking and sickening people , so they don't. Their goal is to end ALL animal consumption, and if pressed they will tell you that. I believe their videos elicit a gut reaction, not raise consciousness. Again, I could video the birth of an aborted deformed fetus and make a case for "having babies is bad", but it's not and that would be unfair treatment of the subject. I could even come up with several videos like that and convince a grade school class that it happens all the time. Fortunately, most people now-days have the ability to research this sort of thing for themselves and they quickly discover the PETA videos are a sham. I don't think any animal should be needlessly mistreated, I don't agree with the concept of cage houses or the methods used for veal production. I have never eaten veal in my life and likely never will. As for some things being "Okay enough" , I get the point and yes, sometimes OK enough has to do for a while. Things are greatly improved over how they were just 50 years ago in the industry but you never hear PETA or the flower children talking about how much better things are , they just continually cry about the problems, that's OK, it's a catalyst for action , just don't cross the line of denying another's free choice. As for LOA, do you not think the desire to prove a point, creates the point. No offense taken, I have a thick skin. Just for the record PETA does not have a spotless record, legally,morally or ethically speaking but I'll let everyone do their own research since I'm not in the propaganda business.
__________________ ~There is no spoon~ Last edited by jeff3 : 05-13-2008 at 06:48 PM. |
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05-13-2008, 06:45 PM
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| Jeff, You wouldn't see the farms. In the U.S., four companies produce 81 percent of cows, 73 percent of sheep, 57 percent of pigs and 50 percent of chickens. That's per the Senate testimony of Leland Swenson, president of the U.S. National Farmers' Union. Unless you frequent the operations ran by those four companies you wouldn't see the abuses. You seem to assume you know a lot about how these four companies operate. You assume you know more than people and organizations who have devoted their lives to researching them.
__________________ Best, Dan Linehan |
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05-13-2008, 07:01 PM
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__________________ ~There is no spoon~ |
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05-13-2008, 07:05 PM
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| What is the light side? There are tons of dark sides.
__________________ Best, Dan Linehan |
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05-13-2008, 07:14 PM
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Anyone with an agenda will skew data to their favor, it's a very well known phenomena. I've done it, you've done it, PETA does it, and the Humane society does it. Do you think people drawn to a career in the Humane Society are going to be objective? I'll answer for you. NO, they are not. Am I? NO. It is their job to find and document abuses, so naturally they will have that data. Is it their job to compile data on all the good operations and the proper treatment of animals that happens all day, every day in this country? NO. FYI PETA has been caught doing some of things they cry about everyone else doing. GOOGLE
__________________ ~There is no spoon~ Last edited by jeff3 : 05-13-2008 at 07:19 PM. |
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05-13-2008, 07:16 PM
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FOCUS FOCUS FOCUS FOCUS FOCUS
__________________ ~There is no spoon~ |