Church of Oprah Exposed: Your thoughts?

[mercuryrising]

Originally Posted by jawillie

My experiences are my experiences and yours are yours. I think we all realize that.

Your last paragraph is YOUR experience. *I* have had life-changing experiences that are sticking. I am NOT saying everyone should. And, I am not taking this too seriously, I am just frustrated how everyone picks everything apart sometimes. I don't debate just to debate.

We all have different experiences. End of story.

I don't debate for the sake of it either and I'm sorry if I have added to your frustration.

I would very much like the world to wake up from it's slumber. If anything, I do not want Tolle's teachings to become a fad, quickly buried beneath the next Big Thing.

Much love to you.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by SonoranBob

Your need to rail against it suggests that you are going to encounter this until it drives you batsh_t.
--Bob

Thanks for the reminder.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by mercuryrising

More than anything.




I'm glad Tolle has done something for you. What does it matter what anyone thinks about that?




It isn't all evil and about brainwashing. It also isn't all sunshine and rainbows.
It is just what it is.



This is also your projection. I am not here to prove that I 'get it'. What I understand from these teachers is that there is no good or bad, it is entirely how I see it. When I attach to a pleasurable experience and repel from a painful one, I end up suffering because I am no longer aware. I am 'hooked'.





Some of my best teachers are those people that piss me off. It's because they bring to my awareness certain limiting beliefs so that I can deal with them (thanks Steve). If I was constantly happy and no one ever upset me, how would I grow? Similarly, if I was in a constant state of resentment and anger, I would also stagnate.

One other thing: I have hundreds of books on spirituality. Not one of them every got me enlightened. Sometimes I'd have that "aha" experience, but that didn't really change anything. What did bring me insight was practicing some simple instructions and reflecting upon my life experience.

I heard somewhere that there is no substitute for experience. It is full of insight. How do you rate inner experiences versus physical experiences?

[mercuryrising]

Originally Posted by Maguru

I heard somewhere that there is no substitute for experience. It is full of insight. How do you rate inner experiences versus physical experiences?

Do you mean like which is more important or how do I compare the two?

We normally experience reality as something solid which invokes feeling, thought and existence itself. We are looking at it backwards. Existence is the origin of feeling and thought which invokes this solid reality. Until you turn around and look at where this is all coming from, you are dependent on this reality and in a constant state of reaction to it. There are reflections of this insight in the external world, but they can only point you to the real thing.

It's kind of like holding a flashlight in a dark room and wondering where the light is coming from. You might catch the reflection of light off of something and if you were to follow the trajectory, you would realize that you hold the light that you are seeing. You might even find a full size mirror which makes it quite obvious. Such mirrors are the spiritual masters of this world. Many people get caught up in the awe of the mirror (worshiping the master), but s/he is still just a reflection of what is real.

So, to answer your question, I value the inner experience above the outer one. Ultimately, though, there is only experience... there is no division.

[jawillie]

[quote=mercuryrising;201301]I don't debate for the sake of it either and I'm sorry if I have added to your frustration.

I would very much like the world to wake up from it's slumber. If anything, I do not want Tolle's teachings to become a fad, quickly buried beneath the next Big Thing. QUOTE]

I hear you.

It is hard to put the teachings into practice. At least, for me. I mean I do all well and good when I am in my own little world... but when I step out and face "differences of opinion"... clearly, I still choose the Ego's response. It's a learning process, I guess.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by mercuryrising

Do you mean like which is more important or how do I compare the two?

We normally experience reality as something solid which invokes feeling, thought and existence itself. We are looking at it backwards. Existence is the origin of feeling and thought which invokes this solid reality. Until you turn around and look at where this is all coming from, you are dependent on this reality and in a constant state of reaction to it. There are reflections of this insight in the external world, but they can only point you to the real thing.

It's kind of like holding a flashlight in a dark room and wondering where the light is coming from. You might catch the reflection of light off of something and if you were to follow the trajectory, you would realize that you hold the light that you are seeing. You might even find a full size mirror which makes it quite obvious. Such mirrors are the spiritual masters of this world. Many people get caught up in the awe of the mirror (worshiping the master), but s/he is still just a reflection of what is real.

So, to answer your question, I value the inner experience above the outer one. Ultimately, though, there is only experience... there is no division.

I think I understand. Are you saying that we are not who we think we are and that inner experiences point to who/what we really are?

[mercuryrising]

Originally Posted by Maguru

I think I understand. Are you saying that we are not who we think we are and that inner experiences point to who/what we really are?

Sort of...

This may not sound like an answer. It's what is going through my head at the moment.

You know that John Lennon song "Imagine"

There is no hell below us,
Above us, only sky...

That last line keeps repeating. There's nothing higher or lower than where we are right now. A lot of spirituality/religion focuses on escaping where we are for where we think we should be. Like, "If only people would be peace and love, the world would be heaven." I think you said something similar in another thread.

I think this relates because if I say, "We aren't what we think we are", then that opens the question "What are we, then?" or "What should we think instead?" There's no right answer.

[mercuryrising]

[quote=jawillie;202241]

Originally Posted by mercuryrising

I don't debate for the sake of it either and I'm sorry if I have added to your frustration.

I would very much like the world to wake up from it's slumber. If anything, I do not want Tolle's teachings to become a fad, quickly buried beneath the next Big Thing. QUOTE]

I hear you.

It is hard to put the teachings into practice. At least, for me. I mean I do all well and good when I am in my own little world... but when I step out and face "differences of opinion"... clearly, I still choose the Ego's response. It's a learning process, I guess.

Yea I still go an ego too. Here's a bit of ego deflation... promise not to tell anyone

I've been a seeker for a long long time. I was initiated into a certain form of meditation when I was six and again when I was twelve. I've always had a deep interest in metaphysics and spirituality. At this point, I'm hard-pressed to find something I haven't studied, practiced or heard of.

My significant other isn't into all that. At least, not like me. She has her own interests, which is perfectly. I wasn't looking for an exact clone of myself (that's the last thing the world needs, trust me). She is a wonderful woman and a great mother. I have no complaints.

Anyway, when A New Earth came out, my SO had the book air mailed to her because all the stores in town were sold out. She was excited about doing this webinar with Oprah. My feelings were a bit hurt by this because whenever I've talked about the very same subjects that Tolle discusses, she gets this glassy-eyed look. But now that the "O" was talking about it, it's cool.

This thread brought back a lot of the same feelings for me. I'm still a work in progress also and proud of it. I figure that if you aren't growing, you are probably dead. In a way, I needed to write something that people don't agree with and be ok with that... an perhaps take a look at some of my own insecurities (bleh).

I don't know if that really helps or changes anything here, but I thought you might like to know.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by mercuryrising

Anyway, when A New Earth came out, my SO had the book air mailed to her because all the stores in town were sold out. She was excited about doing this webinar with Oprah. My feelings were a bit hurt by this because whenever I've talked about the very same subjects that Tolle discusses, she gets this glassy-eyed look. But now that the "O" was talking about it, it's cool.

Some people won't believe it until someone like Oprah gives it a shout out. But isn't it great that she's read it? Shouldn't we thank Oprah for showing this to so many people who probably would have otherwise never delved into these concepts? Who knows what seeds you'd already planted that made her able to take this into her awareness when Oprah brought it up?

Sorry if I'm stepping on your toes. I know I haven't even been in the conversation.

[jawillie]

[quote=mercuryrising;202418]

Originally Posted by jawillie

Yea I still go an ego too. Here's a bit of ego deflation... promise not to tell anyone

I've been a seeker for a long long time. I was initiated into a certain form of meditation when I was six and again when I was twelve. I've always had a deep interest in metaphysics and spirituality. At this point, I'm hard-pressed to find something I haven't studied, practiced or heard of.

My significant other isn't into all that. At least, not like me. She has her own interests, which is perfectly. I wasn't looking for an exact clone of myself (that's the last thing the world needs, trust me). She is a wonderful woman and a great mother. I have no complaints.

Anyway, when A New Earth came out, my SO had the book air mailed to her because all the stores in town were sold out. She was excited about doing this webinar with Oprah. My feelings were a bit hurt by this because whenever I've talked about the very same subjects that Tolle discusses, she gets this glassy-eyed look. But now that the "O" was talking about it, it's cool.

This thread brought back a lot of the same feelings for me. I'm still a work in progress also and proud of it. I figure that if you aren't growing, you are probably dead. In a way, I needed to write something that people don't agree with and be ok with that... an perhaps take a look at some of my own insecurities (bleh).

I don't know if that really helps or changes anything here, but I thought you might like to know.

It's interesting to hear your background on this, thanks for sharing!

I am kind of the opposite: I always claimed I did not like Oprah. I sounded a lot like some in this thread, actually.... and said many things once upon a time that others said in this thread. SOOOOOooooo.... finally I took a look at the book and loved it. Suddenly I found myself in the Oprah Club. So, clearly I had to defend my stance. I still find myself saying, 'Well, I never watch her, but I like Tolle." "I don't believe everything Oprah says, but I like Tolle." Oprah is just so HUGE so of course anything involved with her will be controversial at best. Oh well..... that's not MY problem. I don't have to make it MY problem.

I think I am just thinking out loud now.. lol.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by mercuryrising

Sort of...

This may not sound like an answer. It's what is going through my head at the moment.

You know that John Lennon song "Imagine"

There is no hell below us,
Above us, only sky...

That last line keeps repeating. There's nothing higher or lower than where we are right now. A lot of spirituality/religion focuses on escaping where we are for where we think we should be. Like, "If only people would be peace and love, the world would be heaven." I think you said something similar in another thread.


I think this relates because if I say, "We aren't what we think we are", then that opens the question "What are we, then?" or "What should we think instead?" There's no right answer.

It's funny you should mention 'Imagine' by John Lennon. Last week I downloaded it in itunes and the same day, my neice who is 30yrs younger than I, sent it to me on utube. I imagine he's saying it is up to us and we have to take responsibility for the whole of the human race.

The statement of 'we are not what we think we are' is a great example of not accepting the reality of NOW. Maybe at some level it is true. We certainly change form. We never stay the same but right now, we are form. I beieve that form contains much more than we were aware of, or maybe we could be creating our own inner/spiritual evolution?

It seems to me that Tolle is jumping the gun so to speak. He is guiding past who we really are in the moment of now and leading to who we are not right now, but perhaps can be in the future or when we die. Hmmmmmm...........

This feeling beyond form and thought is a real experience but not at all practical.

I readily admit Oprah and Tolle have brought insight and awareness. However, the promise of who we really are bypasses the most important aspect. Humanity!

[mercuryrising]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

Some people won't believe it until someone like Oprah gives it a shout out. But isn't it great that she's read it? Shouldn't we thank Oprah for showing this to so many people who probably would have otherwise never delved into these concepts? Who knows what seeds you'd already planted that made her able to take this into her awareness when Oprah brought it up?

Sorry if I'm stepping on your toes. I know I haven't even been in the conversation.

How dare you! Just kidding.

Well, she bought the book, but then she couldn't get into the webinar because it was full or something. So she never read the book. I assume she'll read it when it's the right time for her to read it. Hopefully she'll read that copy of Jonathan Seagull I gave her, too.

I have books like that. I buy them and a year later I'll actually read them and say, "Damn, why didn't I read this a year ago?" Everything happens at the right time.

As for planting seeds, that's very true. It's a perspective I hadn't considered, really. Living with me is kind of like living with a spiritual farmer. That's gotta be irritating. She plays along, though.

I guess the problem that I see with Oprah teaching something like Zen is that it shares the same stage with giving a car away to everyone in the audience or some other ridiculousness. It's like finding Jesus at the circus.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by mercuryrising

I have books like that. I buy them and a year later I'll actually read them and say, "Damn, why didn't I read this a year ago?" Everything happens at the right time.

There are books I tried to read over a year ago when I really started looking into all of this and I couldn't get into them. However, now, picking them up again it's a feeling of "woah! this is so creepily perfect." I agree that everything happens at the right time.

Originally Posted by mercuryrising

As for planting seeds, that's very true. It's a perspective I hadn't considered, really. Living with me is kind of like living with a spiritual farmer. That's gotta be irritating. She plays along, though.

It may be irritating (or maybe not) but I bet in the process you have both learned a lot. She may not know she has, but it's in there somewhere. Hopefully she will read those books! My boyfriend (we live together) always looks at my books and thinks I'm going crazy, but just the other day said to me that he was tired of being angry all of the time and not knowing why. I see an opening to plant some seeds there.

Originally Posted by mercuryrising

I guess the problem that I see with Oprah teaching something like Zen is that it shares the same stage with giving a car away to everyone in the audience or some other ridiculousness. It's like finding Jesus at the circus.

Hey, wherever you have to, right?

[SonoranBob]

Originally Posted by mercuryrising

Well, she bought the book, but then she couldn't get into the webinar because it was full or something. So she never read the book.

Perhaps your feelings needn't have been hurt, after all. Even if you couldn't get into the webinar you could (and still can) view all 10 programs after the fact anytime you want, even download them as free podcasts.

So given the near-zero barrier to entry, I'd say she's not as excited as she thought she was. I'd guess that she has some interest, but an approach avoidance problem, perhaps caused by 15+ hours of material seeming a bit daunting once you actually are faced with it. Besides, she may have simply been excited about the "EVENT" more than the content. Oprah tends to inspire that kind of excitement. People don't even know why they're excited, they just are ;-)

--Bob