IM in the bible !

[LauraC]

I stumbled upon this scripture in the bible yesterday:

This is why I tell YOU, All the things YOU pray and ask for have faith that YOU have practically received, and YOU will have them.
Mark 11:24

how true is this !

[Acting Like Godot]

"Ask, and ye shall receive."

==

Btw, what is faith, after all, but a very very strong belief?

[dorothy hanna]

It's all throughout the Bible. What do you think all those prophets were doing all that prophesising about? The future. They were manifesting.

When Jesus was teaching his diciples, he was teaching them all of the LOA, and Reiki. He even manifested his own death, and told them about it before hand, so that He could demonstrate to them the awsome power of it. That it has no limits, and we don't have to be so afraid of death. He proved it when He rose from the dead, so that they could understand completely, and not be so afraid of even death

He chastised the Pherosees for keeping the people enslaved, and in bondage to ignorance of the LOA. Through ignorance, they had been reduced to living a life of meaningless rituals. Rituals that took precedence over LOVE, compassion, and caring. Why did the Pherosees do this? Because they wanted power, and that's what they manifested for themselves.

[Nneka]

As Dorothy said, it's all over the Bible and all other religious texts for that matter. Check this one out.

"For truly I tell you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you."

There is nothing new under the sun. These concepts have been around since man realized he could think and everyone's been talking about it. We now have a common phrase to exchange the idea, but the idea was always there.

At my church the saying is, "Thoughts held in mind produce after their kind." It's everywhere. We are awakening to it.

[Markus74]

It's in the Bible and yet miracle healings are very rare. I wonder why, lol.

[Acting Like Godot]

Miracle healings? Oh they're relatively common.

If you google "miracle healings", you'd probably get about one million hits, and many will be personal accounts by living individuals about the miracle healings that occurred in their own lives. If you have some friends who are doctors, you'd probably get to hear some pretty interesting stories too.

You won't however be able to believe that any of these are genuine. Or to put it more affirmatively, you will probably believe that all of them are false.

Basically, you don't believe in the possibility of miracles, therefore they can't exist in your subjective reality. They must be false. In your reality.

[Markus74]

Wrong. There are some miracle healings that Science can't explain yet. That's true. But that's no problem. And Science should investigate them. So that these events can be understood and used more widely and help more people. And the faith healers etc shouldn't fear Science investigating them. They should be happy to cooperate. If they're scared then they've got something to hide.

But most of the so-called miracle healings are bogus in the first place.

And how comes these miracle healings NEVER involve amputated people growing their limbs back? Why do most of the miracles heal psychosomatic illnesses?

The human body is capable to do more then we are aware of right now. But that doesn't mean that this has anything to do with magic.

[Natsu]

Well, think about placebo effect. It means that you give candy in the shape of a pill to a sick person, and the person may heal. If a faith healer finds out someone who will believe, the healer will strick the chords in the sick person's head that will make the person heal.

And sometimes, it won't.

With many "miracle healings", I think it must be placebo. The fact that lying to a patient and telling them that a pill will heal them, makes some of them heal, is acknowledged by science. It's scientifical: your beliefs affect your body, to a certain extent. So, it's only logical to infer that placebo can be produced by some other beliefs, specially if they are, like faith usually is, deeper and stronger.

About miracles being rare... If with "miracles" we mean something that contradicts some of the laws of physics... They aren't rare. They are just undocumented and underinvestigated.

With this stuff happens the same that with cryptozoology. Some prestigious doctor in an office in a prestigious university says that the cryptid does NOT exist. And years later, some unknown guys find a tree-dwelling kangaroo, or the giant woodpecker (they have been found recently, among other animals). So, some guy in a university department says that certain studies are unworthy of him/her. But if others go to the field and wait, they find something.

Serious scientists should begin to investigate all that stuff, instead of staying in the marble tower and saying those things don't exist. It's the same with miracles and supernatural stuff. Most of the serious dedicated scientists who have investigated such things agree with Markus. Of, about, 300 documented cases, they always would narrow down to 80 or 50. But point is, they DO go to where the case is and investigate it first hand. They usually find most are bogus... and some really awesome stuff. What is lacking here is more field investigation.

[Acting Like Godot]

The placebo effect is just one example of thought affecting reality. Science has studied it. Science acknowledges that the placebo effect does occur. It doesn't mean that thought didn't affect reality. Thought DID affect reality.

In the placebo pill example, it was the patient's thoughts that healed himself. In the placebo miracle cure example, it possibly was again the patient's thoughts that healed himself. Either way, thought DID affect reality. The sickness was cured - that's reality.

The Rosenthal effect is another well-documented example of thought affecting reality. At the start of the school year, teachers are duped - they are told that they are teaching a new class of very bright kids, when actually they have been assigned to a class of mediocre kids (based on past exam scores).

Because the teacher believes that the kids are bright, by the end of the year, the kids perform much, much better than their past exam scores indicate they should. In fact, in some Rosenthal studies, the kids actually display a significant increase in IQ score, after a one-year period.

The teacher's mistaken belief that the kids were bright, had transformed them into bright kids. This is another example of thought transforming reality.

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

In the placebo pill example, it was the patient's thoughts that healed himself. In the placebo miracle cure example, it possibly was again the patient's thoughts that healed himself. Either way, thought DID affect reality. The sickness was cured - that's reality.

I'd rather say that their thoughts activated repair mechanisms in the body. But those repair mechanisms aren't always reliable or easy to trigger. Which is why they sometimes work and sometimes don't.

The Rosenthal effect is another well-documented example of thought affecting reality. At the start of the school year, teachers are duped - they are told that they are teaching a new class of very bright kids, when actually they have been assigned to a class of mediocre kids (based on past exam scores).

Because the teacher believes that the kids are bright, by the end of the year, the kids perform much, much better than their past exam scores indicate they should. In fact, in some Rosenthal studies, the kids actually display a significant increase in IQ score, after a one-year period.

The teacher's mistaken belief that the kids were bright, had transformed them into bright kids. This is another example of thought transforming reality.

This has nothing to do with magic or altering reality. The kids became brighter kids because the teacher was more motivated and spent more time with them then he normally would have. It's not like he has manipulated their brain waves or something like that ...

It would be wise to use Occam's Razor on stories like that.

[demk]

There was a great example of the placebo effect on UK TV on a program about faith healers. US scientists took arthritis sufferers and gave them a fake surgical operation where they lightly sedated them and then bashed and clattered a load of instruments. I think they made one incision and then sowed it up again or something. Miraculously their arthritis was gone on all three patients they tried it on.

Thats the power of belief. Humans seem to need some kind of ritual to access that power (like a faith healing show with all the lights). Maybe at an advanced level you can be so in control of your beliefs that you can just shift them and create what you want?

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by demk

There was a great example of the placebo effect on UK TV on a program about faith healers. US scientists took arthritis sufferers and gave them a fake surgical operation where they lightly sedated them and then bashed and clattered a load of instruments. I think they made one incision and then sowed it up again or something. Miraculously their arthritis was gone on all three patients they tried it on.

Thats the power of belief. Humans seem to need some kind of ritual to access that power (like a faith healing show with all the lights). Maybe at an advanced level you can be so in control of your beliefs that you can just shift them and create what you want?

I saw something similar with the difference that the arthritis was still there but some patients didn't feel the pain anymore. But anyway, it's amazing indeed. Though, again, still a long shot from what people here claim of what IM is capable of ...

[dorothy hanna]

A miracle, is a miracle, is a miracle.

A miracle, by any other explaination, for it's coming about, is still a miracle.

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by dorothy hanna

A miracle, is a miracle, is a miracle.

A miracle, by any other explaination, for it's coming about, is still a miracle.

Do you realize the number of things that the ancients considered miracles that we can explain today rationally?

'Miracle' is just a temporary label for things that we can't explain yet.

[dorothy hanna]

Then it looks like science has a lot of catching up to do. But, I know it will, I have faith.

And what a grand day that will be, too!

[Zach]

It's hard to tell these days which is a miracle and which is false, every night I see "fundraisers" on certain religious channels, during which they perform all kinds of "healings", speaking in tongues (which sounds to me like incomprehensible babbling) and a number of interesting things. I, personally, don't think they're true, only schemes to get you to donate to their money-centered (not God-centered) church.

Am I saying I don't believe in miracles? Not at all. It's just that I'm skeptical when people talk about performing miracles for selfish reasons. I don't believe that anybody will experience miracles if they are in it for their own selfish ambitions. I believe that there are several warnings in the Bible about false prophets and "miracle workers" who will try to deceive you to get you to believe and follow them.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Markus74

I'd rather say that their thoughts activated repair mechanisms in the body.

See what I mean? Thoughts obviously affect reality - in this case, repair mechanisms in the body.

Originally Posted by Markus74

But those repair mechanisms aren't always reliable or easy to trigger. Which is why they sometimes work and sometimes don't.

True. In the everyday scenario, I recommend that patients, in addition to thinking positive, must also rely on other things manifested into reality - such as doctors and conventional medicines.

Originally Posted by Markus74

This has nothing to do with magic or altering reality. The kids became brighter kids because the teacher was more motivated and spent more time with them then he normally would have. It's not like he has manipulated their brain waves or something like that ...

It would be wise to use Occam's Razor on stories like that.

Huh? Look at it this way - did the kids REALLY become brighter or not? According to the study, they REALLY became brighter. So that's REALITY. Yes, you can break down the explanation into little parts - the teacher becoming more motivated, spending more time with the kids etc. But the first critical part is still the teacher's thought, is it not.

The teacher still needs to believe that the kids are smart. This belief is a thought. This is the crux of the Rosenthal effect. LOA will work in whatever way LOA will work. In this case, the teacher exhibits a thought, "These kids are smart kids." This thought affects reality. It may affect, for example, the way the teacher talks to the kids, the way the teacher conducts his lessons, the way the students respond to the teacher etc. The end result is that the kids become smart. Their IQ scores actually jump.

In other words, the thought has manifested into reality. The kids, who were REALLY not smart, have been transformed into kids who are REALLY smart.

So yes, I do see the Rosenthal effect as an example of LOA at work. Now extrapolate, from the Rosenthal effect. We have seen the effect of the following belief:

"These school kids are very bright."

Now ask yourself - what if you had the following beliefs?

"My own children are very bright."

Logically speaking, it's very plausible that something will happen to your kids which is similar to what happened to the Rosenthal kids.

Stretch this further. What if you had the following belief?

"My employees are extremely bright."

Once again, it's really not difficult to see that the Rosenthal effect might well occur again.

How about another variation?

"My employees are motivated, responsible and happy at work."

Why shouldn't that work?

One more variation:

"My children are motivated, responsible and happy at home."

Go on, challenge yourself.

"I am very bright. I am also a motivated, responsible and happy man."

Why stop there?

"I am very bright. I am also a motivated, responsible and happy man. I am very healthy and fit."

Ahh. When you gain more confidence in your use of LOA, you could try this next.

"My wife is very bright. She is also a motivated, responsible and happy woman. She is very healthy and fit."

Wow. Look at that. You thought certain thoughts, and the effect could well be that you made:

your kids --> very bright, motivated, responsible and happy at home.
your employees --> very bright, motivated, responsible and happy at work.
your wife and yourself --> very bright, motivated, responsible and happy woman, very healthy and fit.

Is that magical or not magical? I don't care. I only care about the effects. The effects on REALITY, triggered by my thoughts.

Suddenly I have made entire groups of people - kids, wife, employees - brighter, more motivated, responsible, happier, healthier, fitter.

Before you say that all this happened only because I modified my own behavior as a result of my thoughts, I will tell you this - my own behavior is part of reality too. Is it not?

Where's the limit? I don't know. Maybe there is no limit. Maybe the only limit is what you can bring yourself to believe. In history, there must be people who, at one point or another, held beliefs like the following:

"I can win the gold in the next Olympics."
"I can help all these poor, starving children."
"I can create a vaccine for malaria."
"I can end apartheid in South Africa."
"I can end slavery in the United States of America."
"I can create a great work of art."
"I can create economic progress in my country."
"I can be the first man to climb Mount Everest."

The belief must come first. Otherwise there is no reality. All the above beliefs have manifested into reality. And actually, all the above beliefs are more preposterous (or ambitious, depending on how you look at it) than the belief that me, my wife, my kids and my employees could all be smart, responsible, motivated, happy, healthy and fit.

[Acting Like Godot]

Poor Markus. You want to know about LOA. Examples are given to you. But:

(1) if you can find some other "logical", "conventional" explanation, you will say: "Ahhh, it happened because of A, B, C, not because of LOA."

(2) if you cannot find a "logical", "conventional" explanation, you will say, "Ahh, this cannot be scientifically verified."

[demk]

The lord (LOA) works in mysterious ways.

I heard about a study done recently where black students who were asked to state their race at the start of a test did worse than black students who didnt. Because they were reminded of certain beliefs and ideas surrounding their cultural identity, they believed they were going to do worse. They didnt even have to literally think the thought, it all happened unconsciously.

My point is that beliefs can be so subtle. In respect to healing, if you believe that healing will occur it will occur in a way that is congruent with your current beliefs. I personally don't even know what all my beleifs are. My mind is intimately connected with the rest of society if this study is to be believed.

[Markus74]

This is really like waiting for Godot here ...

Anyway, whatever makes you happy, people. And I expect to see you people on CNN then, doing all sort of supernatural stuff. And creating world peace of course.

Good luck.

[dorothy hanna]

World peace sounds like a very worthwhile goal.

I'm intending for world peace, and to see paradise unfold right before our eyes, in the easiest, most relaxed ,manner, in the healthiest most relaxed manner, for the highest good of all.

[The David]

Maybe faith healings are rare because people are 'passive pray-ers'? Instead of believing that their faith will accomplish it, they believe that God or the faith healer will do it. They take no responsibility, and therefore, it doesn't manifest.

Just a theory that came to my mind.