Carlos Castaneda

[Liara Covert]

I'm interested to learn about views and experiences with Toltec teachings. Writing by Miguel Ruiz and Carlos Castaneda reveals unique visions of truth. Do you agree or disagree with your senses or what you have read?

[veranadine]

As an ordained Pagan Priestess, I have studied so many different paths and techniques to enlightenment, awareness and psychic development.

For me, I seem to feel a continuing attraction to Toltec ways (though not specifically to Castenada) and, though the attraction continues, I have never had any of the techniques presented by Carlos or others familiar with Toltec way actually WORK for me at all.

I have had much more success with ancient Egyptian, Sumerian and Greek ways than anything of Castenada's.

The Kybalion was the door opener for me. Though I am sure that people with different energies/experiences to my own must have had equal success with the Castenada stuff.

It all depends on the person, their values and interests, strengths and weaknesses.

Find something that plays to your own strength, that is the advice that I always give.

Brightest Blessings,

[Liara Covert]

veranadine, we each follow our own path. You make a meaningful point that a sense of personal progress can be developed through varied teachings.

I bring up Castaneda because his name, life experience and techniques seem to evoke strong emotions in people. They don't always know why or, they sometimes become judgmental of things they may not understand. Seers do not have to go to extremes to feel worthy.

As you suggest, a person can take different steps to expand perception and transform a self-view. Its about discipline, underlying will and self-control.

[Mato Kinze]

My teacher was a student of Castaneda's contemporary to Don Miguel Ruiz (Ruiz is just more eloquent than my teacher, but they are close friends). I've been studying the Toltec Path for almost two years.

I'm a committed student and can from personal experience say that everything Castaneda wrote about is possible. I have experienced enough of it directly myself to have no doubt about the rest.

I'm not a teacher, but I'll gladly share any experiences I've had and what my understanding of the Path is.

What specifically interests you?

[supertom]

Anything about physical healing???

[Silent Lucidity]

I've attempted to read the Casteneda series twice. I'm now starting the third attempt. There have been 5-7 years between each attempt. The strangeness of the writing style, as well as the tendency to forget what I'd just read, as well as the tendency to have many of the experienced mentioned, prevented me from ever finishing the series of books.

There are things now that I really want to understand, and so many of the things in these books makes sense according to direct experience. So I've been drawn back to exploring the techniques again. Since this is an anonymous forum, I'm happy to discuss experience with people.

I have had enough experiences (before reading the books also) that support the ideas in his books, mainly in the realm of dreaming, that I am interested in learning/practicing more.

I'm not a teacher by any means, by the way.

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by supertom

Anything about physical healing???

Absolutely.

The primary difference between a Shaman and a Sorcerer is the application of the Healing Arts.

Don Juan Mattus - and by extension Castaneda - were Sorcerers. My teacher is a Shaman and that is the Path I am following.

The prinicipals of Balance and walking the Path of the Warrior are the principals of health and well-being.

The Power Practices of Don Juan can be used to help yourself - as well as others - to regain the balance lost in thier lives that manifests itself as illness. Connection to your Guides and Benefactor and the help of Allies is very powerful healing Medicine.

My teacher has helped people cure their cancer, has helped people reverse Coronary Artery disease, crippling arthritis, Lupus and a score of other diseases, ailments and maladies.

I personally use the practices to help my children heal themselves from colds, flus and other general malais.

[Silent Lucidity]

I was just about to post a thread about this today, so it's nice one has already started.

I have a question, I wish to build up energy. How does one do that?

[Silent Lucidity]

ah.. someone who studies shamanism... any thoughts on healing chronic pain cycles 'FMS'?

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by Silent Lucidity

I was just about to post a thread about this today, so it's nice one has already started.

I have a question, I wish to build up energy. How does one do that?

Well, if I told YOU how to do it, that would be teaching. Since I'm not a teacher, I will tell you how I do it. It may or may not work for you and you practice such techniques at your own discretion.

Now, with that out of the way,

I use a technique adapted from Aikido called a Ki Breath. Basically, I draw air all the way into my belly in a long, slow controlled intake and expell it quickly with all the muscles in my abdomen tensed with an audible "haaaaaa".

Doing this several times in succession increases the amount of oxygen in my body invigorates the spirit, and I actually feel my strength and power increase.

This works for short term needs. For long term, it's a question of creating a good balance in my life between my physical, emotional, mental and spiritual selves. When all things are in balance, I require very little energy to function. Therefor, I have much more of my energy available to me when I need to use it for other things.

A good night's sleep is also pretty key and something that most people ignore.

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by Silent Lucidity

ah.. someone who studies shamanism... any thoughts on healing chronic pain cycles 'FMS'?

Not that are enlightened enough to post. That requires a lot more Knowledge, practice and understanding than I currently posess. I understand the fundamental aspect of how to help people control it, but it's not something I'd do at my level of learning. I keep to pretty simple stuff for the time being.

[Silent Lucidity]

That's understandable. Disclaimer noted . I'm happy to experiment with suggestions, passed through the filter of intuition. The FMS is pretty ordinary, triggered by a minor car accident this fall. However the tendency for 'nerve pain' (or it's opposite), was always there, so one day I'll have to do something about it.

It is possible that studying a 'path' will lead to energy (re)gains that will offset the unusual sensitivity. That's one hope.

I've gained energy through sleep, creativity, flying in dreams, finding a 'spot'. The current energy drain is emotional/relationship in nature and once I have it worked out, it will be fine.

The breathing sounds similar to one we do in Bikram's Yoga. Sounds good to do in the morning.

It is interesting to ponder people's reasons for choosing a path.

In The Art of Dreaming, the sorcerers all got their knowledge from the inorganic beings, and were all darkworkers. Today, it's all about knowledge and freedom, looks more 'lightworkers' I don't agree 100% with the light/dark/worker concepts but they -are- interesting.

[supertom]

where does one learn, i live in sydney lols

[Liara Covert]

Mato: I'm deepening my guided journey on Toltec teachings. Ruiz and Castaneda were some of my starting points for book study. I haven't met these men or any of their disciples, though my process has invited other Toltecs into my life. I would be grateful for suggestions on additional reading material I could look into as well as learning about some of your own lessons and highlights of practical experiences. Feel free to email me.

Silent Lucidity-whenever we undertake something new, part of us may be reluctant to step outside our comfort zone. If a person seeks quick fixes to symptoms of an apparent problem, then that person hasn't yet fully explored the breadth of underlying causes. Humans build up energy all the time, though few people really understand why they do this, let-a-lone how. If you decide learning why is more important than "the how," then a good place to start is to realize all your thoughts and emotions are generated energy. Seers place the highest value on transcending the control emotions hold over us. Learning why you do things is the first step to mastering the process and discovering what lies beyond it.

Supertom: when you think you desire to learn something, a good place to start is the internet and local library. As you evolve to better understand why you wish to learn, your motives and approaches to learning change. You will also find you meet people with similar interests who will be apt to help guide your journey. My own experience has shown me time and again that 'when the pupil is ready (and willing), the teachers will appear.'

[Andrei]

I have had very double experiences with Castaneda. I started reading his books less than a year after a psychosis in 1998. During my psychosis I thought I needed to become the Devil. I'll write more about this in another post. Clear to say though the books in Castaneda refired my belief in the Devil, because of the dark nature in these books. I doubted these books would lead me to the dark path, because of its ambiguous matter. They didn't make me feel good at all. Yet I kept on reading them because they seemed to hold the answers I was searching for since a long time.

They frightened me and they fascinated me at the same time.

There is one passage which burned in my mind. It's the passage in the first book about the main challenges for a sorcerer. The first one is fear, which if you conquer gets you a clarity of vision, this becomes your enemy and when you conquer this you learn this is only a point in front of your eyes and you get real power. When this power is conquered you learn this power is not really your own and then there is the last enemy which is oldage, which means resting and forgetting. I held this as a main sketch on how to act in my life, it drove me crazy sometimes.

I couldn't handle them the moment I read them. It was certainly to early for me. The sorcerers way was way to demanding for me, it seemed to hold no relaxation but constant struggle. It is very very demanding, and to Don Juan it was the only way. I constantly felt I couldn't answer to what was needed. I still have this feeling.

They have thought me a lot, but they brought a lot of restlessness in my life. They are incredibly vague and yet incredibly clear at the same time.

These are books for people that feel strong enough to handle them. If you encounter them at the wrong moment they can make you crazy, as simple as that.

I remember the ending of "the art of dreaming" - very dark indeed, Castaneda by being stupid has killed someone or let her "disappear". To me it stays very questionable. Ambiguous.

People think I'm a bit weird and strange sometimes, these books haven't helped me to act relaxed and just being me most of the times, yet in some passages they helped me to get a "hyper-passage" into being myself. I still can't explain. That's why this thread interests me endlessly.

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by Andrei

I have had very double experiences with Castaneda. I started reading his books less than a year after a psychosis in 1998. During my psychosis I thought I needed to become the Devil. I'll write more about this in another post. Clear to say though the books in Castaneda refired my belief in the Devil, because of the dark nature in these books. I doubted these books would lead me to the dark path, because of its ambiguous matter. They didn't make me feel good at all. Yet I kept on reading them because they seemed to hold the answers I was searching for since a long time.

They frightened me and they fascinated me at the same time.

There is one passage which burned in my mind. It's the passage in the first book about the main challenges for a sorcerer. The first one is fear, which if you conquer gets you a clarity of vision, this becomes your enemy and when you conquer this you learn this is only a point in front of your eyes and you get real power. When this power is conquered you learn this power is not really your own and then there is the last enemy which is oldage, which means resting and forgetting. I held this as a main sketch on how to act in my life, it drove me crazy sometimes.

I couldn't handle them the moment I read them. It was certainly to early for me. The sorcerers way was way to demanding for me, it seemed to hold no relaxation but constant struggle. It is very very demanding, and to Don Juan it was the only way. I constantly felt I couldn't answer to what was needed. I still have this feeling.

They have thought me a lot, but they brought a lot of restlessness in my life. They are incredibly vague and yet incredibly clear at the same time.

These are books for people that feel strong enough to handle them. If you encounter them at the wrong moment they can make you crazy, as simple as that.

I remember the ending of "the art of dreaming" - very dark indeed, Castaneda by being stupid has killed someone or let her "disappear". To me it stays very questionable. Ambiguous.

People think I'm a bit weird and strange sometimes, these books haven't helped me to act relaxed and just being me most of the times, yet in some passages they helped me to get a "hyper-passage" into being myself. I still can't explain. That's why this thread interests me endlessly.

The message that burned into you was a good one. You internalized the Path. However, you do need to understand that the Path of the Warrior (not the sorcerer - as the Toltec Path is all about being a Warrior) is not one of comfort. If you are uneasy, (uneasy does NOT equal fearful) it means you're doing it right. If you EVER feel "adequate" then you are not seeing clearly, and as you pointed out, without clarity, there is no Power. If you ever feel comfortable, then you are not pushing yourself and are not doing your best. Always doing your best is one of the most fundamental aspects of living the warrior's life.

You also missed a step which is important; that of being a person of Knowledge.

If you found Castaneda too dark, you might try Don Miguel Ruiz. His first book, "The Four Agreements" is a good place to start to help you get over the esotericism (is that a real word??) of Castaneda and his writing style.

[Andrei]

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

The message that burned into you was a good one. You internalized the Path. However, you do need to understand that the Path of the Warrior (not the sorcerer - as the Toltec Path is all about being a Warrior) is not one of comfort. If you are uneasy, (uneasy does NOT equal fearful) it means you're doing it right. If you EVER feel "adequate" then you are not seeing clearly, and as you pointed out, without clarity, there is no Power. If you ever feel comfortable, then you are not pushing yourself and are not doing your best. Always doing your best is one of the most fundamental aspects of living the warrior's life.

You also missed a step which is important; that of being a person of Knowledge.

If you found Castaneda too dark, you might try Don Miguel Ruiz. His first book, "The Four Agreements" is a good place to start to help you get over the esotericism (is that a real word??) of Castaneda and his writing style.

This pushing seems very unnatural to me. There are things I only find when I let go, I rest, I feel at ease. Only then I can truly enjoy life. This impeccability seems a good idea, but it makes me not enjoy life, because I'm often not at ease. Castaneda to me is frenetic, feverlike, it's like putting a very big pressure on your life. And sometimes it helps to reach special places, most of the time though I feel detached from what I really want to do.

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by Andrei

This pushing seems very unnatural to me. There are things I only find when I let go, I rest, I feel at ease. Only then I can truly enjoy life. This impeccability seems a good idea, but it makes me not enjoy life, because I'm often not at ease. Castaneda to me is frenetic, feverlike, it's like putting a very big pressure on your life. And sometimes it helps to reach special places, most of the time though I feel detached from what I really want to do.

A Warrior constantly challenges himself (or herself) to do more, be more than they currently are. Therefore they should never be satisfied with the status quo. To be comfortable is to be complacent and complacency is the antithesis of the Path.

Understand, I don't equate acceptance with complacency - they're different, but it is required of a Warrior to live life with intent and not the intent to be comfortable. I also don't equate stillness with complacency. As you point out, sometimes stillness in both mind and spirit are required to reach into the Nagual.

[Liara Covert]

Andrei- I agreee with Mato that Ruiz' Four Agreements would be a good book to read. It offers a different approach. Your frame of mind, and fluctuating level of fear and receptiveness determine your take on explanations of awareness.

Mato-warriors tell us that the only "real" energy humans possess is sexual energy that can be channelled as we choose. Don Juan didn't think sensuality was wrong (either morally or any other way). Yet, he felt Humanity's ignorance about its magical nature is problematic. He also indicates that the glow of parents' innate awareness diminishes as the result of having children as parents bestow their energy. If we aim to be free, unbiased observers and withold judgment, how would you suppose we could gain a more balanced understanding of this glow of awareness? and strengthen it?

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by Liara Covert

Andrei- I agreee with Mato that Ruiz' Four Agreements would be a good book to read. It offers a different approach. Your frame of mind, and fluctuating level of fear and receptiveness determine your take on explanations of awareness.

Mato-warriors tell us that the only "real" energy humans possess is sexual energy that can be channelled as we choose. Don Juan didn't think sensuality was wrong (either morally or any other way). Yet, he felt Humanity's ignorance about its magical nature is problematic. He also indicates that the glow of parents' innate awareness diminishes as the result of having children as parents bestow their energy. If we aim to be free, unbiased observers and withold judgment, how would you suppose we could gain a more balanced understanding of this glow of awareness? and strengthen it?

Sorry. Don't agree with that particular take on an individual's energy. Sexual energy is simply one direction personal power can take. It is not the source. I certainly don't have any judgements about sexual energy... like any other power, it's worth is determined by the integrity of the one who uses it.

I also disagree that having children diminishes one's personal power/energy. There is an infinite supply of power that is accessible through the Nagual. Personally, my Path is stronger through my children. As I strive to teach them, I come to greater understanding myself. It's like I tell my clients: "The best way to learn something is to teach it to someone else." I find that if there's a concept I can't explain in words my 10 year old can understand, then I don't understand it well enough myself.

As for increasing understanding, I think that lies in not being attached to the knowing but rather being open to the Path that leads there. As my Benefactor has taught me, "The answer is less important than the question. And the question is less important than that which brings you to ask it."

If we're focused on attaining awareness, we lose the ability to be aware to things we're not focused on - which is, at that point, just about everything.

[Liara Covert]

Mato- I am apt to agree with your take on channelling energy. I also believe that the intent and integrity of the person behind it matters greatly. If we become too focused on anything at the exclusion of all others, then we may undermine the quest to raise awareness. And yet, to be open and closed at the same time is possible. To be aware and also ignorant is possible too. What you let in and what you shut out all shapes who you are.

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by Liara Covert

Mato- I am apt to agree with your take on channelling energy. I also believe that the intent and integrity of the person behind it matters greatly. If we become too focused on anything at the exclusion of all others, then we may undermine the quest to raise awareness. And yet, to be open and closed at the same time is possible. To be aware and also ignorant is possible too. What you let in and what you shut out all shapes who you are.

Aho. (Amen)

[NickW]

As an adolescent, I enjoyed Castaneda's novels. Even with his problems keeping the Don Juan character consistent--notice how his fictional voice changes through the series--the stories were nonetheless entertaining. But then Castaneda started repeating himself, which happens often in successful fictional series. The novelist feels a lot of pressure to keep the franchise going.

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by NickW

As an adolescent, I enjoyed Castaneda's novels. Even with his problems keeping the Don Juan character consistent--notice how his fictional voice changes through the series--the stories were nonetheless entertaining. But then Castaneda started repeating himself, which happens often in successful fictional series. The novelist feels a lot of pressure to keep the franchise going.

As is evidenced by the discrepancies between the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John?

[supertom]

which of his book should i start reading first theres one where he stops using drugs cause he know he doesnt have too, which ones that ??

[Liara Covert]

Supertom- People I know often choose to read Castaneda books chronologically (either from the earliest date of publication to the most recent or, working backwards). Other people are introduced to one book in the middle and go forward from there. Being systematic has advantages.

NickW-Personally, I don't view Castaneda's works as fiction. Of course, opinions will vary. You may find that your interpretation of books evolves with your level of self-understanding.

Mato-I find it intriguing how religions can be seen as dogmas. Texts like the Bible and religious institutions they represent demand an unquestioned reverence for an external authority. If you take the stance that God is within and sense a connection to the Divine, then religion as it has been cut and pasted by certain humans for self-interest becomes unnecessary. Authorities may feel threatened by the perception of the truth where it is understood as the idea that each of us is responsible for our own behavior and the realisation of our own divinity. We choose to grow or not.

[jsam]

I studied the Don Juan series back in the 1970,s, and found them helpful in opening my belief system. I saw each book as a continuation of the previous one, so I would suggest starting with the first one, and reading them in the order they were published. I believe the first in the series was "Tales of Power", then "Journey to Ixtlan", then "A Separate Reality". I could never believe all the happenings Casteneda described really happened, especially in his later books, but I read them with an "as if" attitude; as if they were true.

During the time I was reading them, I had a startling onset of "clarity", which has stayed with me all my life. In my case, it was not from overcoming fear, but guilt, through gestalt therapy.

Namaste...

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by Liara Covert;177425[B

Mato[/B]-I find it intriguing how religions can be seen as dogmas. Texts like the Bible and religious institutions they represent demand an unquestioned reverence for an external authority. If you take the stance that God is within and sense a connection to the Divine, then religion as it has been cut and pasted by certain humans for self-interest becomes unnecessary. Authorities may feel threatened by the perception of the truth where it is understood as the idea that each of us is responsible for our own behavior and the realisation of our own divinity. We choose to grow or not.

Agreed. That's really my point. Religion and Spirituality are intertwined but distinct and separate entities. Spirituality is the extent to which one perceives connection to Source. Religion is the formula of personal action that leads an individual to gain Spirituality.

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by jsam

I studied the Don Juan series back in the 1970,s, and found them helpful in opening my belief system. I saw each book as a continuation of the previous one, so I would suggest starting with the first one, and reading them in the order they were published. I believe the first in the series was "Tales of Power", then "Journey to Ixtlan", then "A Separate Reality". I could never believe all the happenings Casteneda described really happened, especially in his later books, but I read them with an "as if" attitude; as if they were true.

During the time I was reading them, I had a startling onset of "clarity", which has stayed with me all my life. In my case, it was not from overcoming fear, but guilt, through gestalt therapy.

Namaste...

Actually, "The Teachings of Don Juan; A Yaqui Way of Knowledge" was Castaneda's first book published in '68.

I found it most useful to go through them in chronological order as it helped me to see the path of realization and awakening he took. However, there are some things he got quicker than I did and others I got quicker than he. So I have to go back and use them almost a reference sometimes.

I've found myself going back through something I read years ago and going, "Ohhh, NOW I get it...."

As for the "drugs" part, he actually discusses that as early as the first book. Towards the end of "Teachings", Don Juan describes to him another of his students who was more advanced than Carlos, but had NEVER taken Mescalito because it wasn't needed.

Jsam-
You may trust me or not; certainly you have no reason to as you don't know me or anything about me. However, I assure you that the things Castaneda wrote about are true and achievable. I've experienced enough myself to not doubt the rest. -- for whatever that's worth --

[jsam]

Mato Kinze,

I do trust you. I am sure you have experienced what you describe.
Along my path, I experienced many paranormal and inexplicable events, which I found hard to believe, since my orientation was scientific and materialistic, and I was a born skeptic. I kept my mind open, formed no firm judgements, waiting for more info. I know from my experience that there are alternative perceptions to events in our world to that of our "common sense", and when I was looking for strange phenomena, I found it. I think there is a "reality" to all the things that people have believed in; spirits, ghosts, elves, fairies, demons, the astral entities, and even dragons. Like "what you believe is what you get".
For a while, I was intrigued by psi phenomena. I finally fell into the nagual, as Casteneda terms it, and was so shaken by the experience, thay even after it resulted in my awakening, I wanted nothing more to do with extraordinary phenomena, and for decades now, I have been at peace, enjoying "ordinary reality.

Namaste....jsam