Epiphany i had last night while meditating!

[Rockchick26]

I hope i am posting this in the right forum because it kind of involves awareness/reality/dreaming all in one. I was meditating in bed to those brain wave cd's. Towards the end (which is always where moments like this happen!) i had a revelation. So i'm wondering if any of you felt this way too.

I'm into lucid dreaming (or trying to LOL) and also into learning about the true nature of reality. I was thinking,last night,that the mind is always processing information,and even when you're sleeping it is all jumbled up and must finish processing this as we sleep. That is why we dream. Now,what if we had such a simple thought process during our waking hours,and we didnt really "think" at all,just kinda peacefully drifted along through our day,with no stress/worries or excess information to process. And say that we are totally mentally and emotionally healthy with no issues. Would this affect our dreams? I mean,because our dreams are usually something from our subconsious trying to tell us something...what would happen if it had nothing to tell us?

And if we go about our waking hours totally aware of everything,with no cluttering thoughts in our minds at all,then would our dreams be more lucid? I hope i'm explaining this right (it sounded much better at the time,while i was thinking it LOL)...i guess what i'm trying to say is maybe our natural state IS to lucid dream all the time,because that is what happens when you increase awareness in your waking hours. Maybe we aren't supposed to have messed up dreams telling us about a past issue that we cannot resolve...if our true reality is awareness,then maybe we are meant to be constantly lucid,even when we are sleeping,but the way we are cluttered with thoughts,questions,worries,problems,etc. is why our dreams make no sense to us. If you take all that away,what would our dreams be like? I think lucidity is natural and in a perfect world we should all be 100% aware 24/7,sleeping or not.

I hope i got my point across but i'm horrible at explaining myself. Did anyone even remotely understand that,and maybe can explain it better?

[Tayrak]

Rockchick26

Imho it cannot be achieved. We're human, our makeup warrents that we constantly question, constantly search. If we go on vacation for example, no worries plaguing us, just the chance to have good clean fun. The first thing we try to do is look for something to do, some excitement. we don't lay back and rest, we do for a bit but mostly we're running around doing stuff. we come back from most vacations saying we had a great time, but boy, am I tired, I need a vacation from my vacation.
You would have to put yourself in a vacuum, with no outward stimulus, and then your brain would offer some for you. You would never last, at least I never would.
I didn't think lucid dreaming was supposed to be a state of calm, I understood it as a state of acute awareness, being aware of what you are dreaming and remembering it when you wake up, perhaps interacting within your dreams?? You couldn't hold that state 24/7. Sleep is supposed to be a recharging state, giving you rest and reprieve. You need rest and escape as much as you need awareness, at least I do.
There are as many people looking for a method to turn off their dreams as there are who work to make them more clarified. We're a restless bunch, we humans.

Tayrak

[ShiningLight]

Hi Rockchick26,

Now,what if we had such a simple thought process during our waking hours,and we didnt really "think" at all,just kinda peacefully drifted along through our day,with no stress/worries or excess information to process.

What is stress, worries, problems, questions, anxieties if not functions of the thought process? You ask what would happen if we were to eliminate our thoughts. Do you really what to eliminate thoughts? Can you even? I personally don't think that is possible - or welcoming.

Instead, what if you were to replace these thoughts with others, such as thoughts of happiness, joy, love, gratitude, health? How would your dreams be like then? How would that affect your lucid dreaming?

You see, to totally eliminate thoughts is like throwing away the baby with the dirty bath water (or something like that)

[RTF671]

Dreams are an outlet for learning. It gives an opportunity for many sources like the subconscious to tell you where to direct your effects to better yourself.

[Erock]

Originally Posted by ShiningLight

What is stress, worries, problems, questions, anxieties if not functions of the thought process? You ask what would happen if we were to eliminate our thoughts. Do you really what to eliminate thoughts? Can you even? I personally don't think that is possible - or welcoming.

Sorry to disagree with you ShiningLight, but I personally believe that one can eliminate all thoughts, and I really do want to.

Erock

[ShiningLight]

Erock - you are not talking about death are you? but just curious, why would you want to eliminate all thoughts? If you do achieve it, then how would you know?

[Rockchick26]

I dont mean to eliminate ALL thoughts,i just meant all negative stressful ones,i guess. And i understand that we need vacations from our vacations LOL Even when we are calm and relaxed we can't stay in that state for long. I just thought it would be really cool to be able to stay aware 24/7...like you live your life for 16 hours then for 8 hours you are free to explore the impossible. It would be like a mini vacation every night! I envy Erin so much for being able to do this anytime she wants!

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by ShiningLight

Erock - you are not talking about death are you? but just curious, why would you want to eliminate all thoughts? If you do achieve it, then how would you know?

The elimination of thought is a major theme in many spiritual teachings - for example, those of Eckhart Tolle.

It does not mean the total & permanent elimination of all thought. It means that you think only when you wish to, and you think only about what you wish to think about.

Most of us do not have a mind like that. More commonly, our mind is chattering or mumbling to itself more or less throughout the day. It hops from one topic to another topic randomly, and our control of this process is actually quite limited (recall any occasion when you wanted to concentrate on your work, but you kept getting distracted by your own thoughts and could not concentrate). Many of our thoughts are repetitive and non-constructive. For example, we may keep thinking angry thoughts about some incident in the past, even though we intellectually know that what's past is past and the logical thing to do is move on.

[Erock]

Originally Posted by ShiningLight

Erock - you are not talking about death are you? but just curious, why would you want to eliminate all thoughts? If you do achieve it, then how would you know?

If I really was my thoughts, then I would truly be killing myself and I wouldn't know, but I don't believe that I am my thoughts. By thoughts I'm referring to mental chatter/mental pictures. I'm the witness/awareness behind the thoughts.

Erock

[Angela]

Originally Posted by ShiningLight

...you want to eliminate all thoughts? If you do achieve it, then how would you know?

That's very funny; I love that!

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by ShiningLight

If you do achieve it, then how would you know?

In the same way that you know you're breathing, by observing your breath.

[ShiningLight]

It does not mean the total & permanent elimination of all thought. It means that you think only when you wish to, and you think only about what you wish to think about.

I don't know about you, but the total elimination of thoughts and to be able to think when you want to sound way different to me. And that's what I mean, the usefulness of having thoughts. The total elimination of thoughts isn't something one should strive for, if someone wants to function in this reality as we know it.

Striving to control and utilize thoughts in a healthy manner - to improve your focus, concentration, and visualization is beneficial - striving to eliminate all thoughts, can be misleading and a cause of anxiety and grief.

It would be like a mini vacation every night! I envy Erin so much for being able to do this anytime she wants!

Statements, such as this are the reason why I feel we must be careful to portray this idea of total elimination of thoughts in a way that isn't some never-ending dream.

We are packaging this idea and giving it a marketing friendly term, "enlightenment," and feeding it to the masses as the answer for all your problems - total bliss, joy and happiness. Who wouldn't want that? And when these people can't achieve this goal, they begin to wonder what is wrong with them? They begin to envy others and wish they were like them.
When in this reality, it doesn't exist.

I'm not saying that it doesn't exist in another reality as someone else mentioned in another post by describing the different dimensions and planes. (way beyond my comprehension at the moment).

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by ShiningLight

Statements, such as this are the reason why I feel we must be careful to portray this idea of total elimination of thoughts in a way that isn't some never-ending dream.

We are packaging this idea and giving it a marketing friendly term, "enlightenment," and feeding it to the masses as the answer for all your problems - total bliss, joy and happiness. Who wouldn't want that? And when these people can't achieve this goal, they begin to wonder what is wrong with them? They begin to envy others and wish they were like them.
When in this reality, it doesn't exist.

I'm not saying that it doesn't exist in another reality as someone else mentioned in another post by describing the different dimensions and planes. (way beyond my comprehension at the moment).

I'm not saying it would be an answer to all my problems,but just knowing that every night for 8 hours i could escape,become someone else,do anything i want,that would be enough for me. I could have a horrible life and still be ok if i knew i could lucid dream all night.