How many believe in the devil?

[InnerTeaching]

Hi,

There is a sticky post on the forum about how many believe in God, but now I'm wondering how many believe in the devil or maybe better, what do people think of the devil? Do you think it's some kind of a destructive power, or more like a personal devil ... or don't you believe in the devil at all, like myself.

I'm really curious for reply's...

Greetings,

[Plato]

1) Do you really want to know how many people believe in the existence of a devil ???
If yes
2a) Why do you think an unrepresentative survey will help you?
If no
2b) Why did you really start this thread?


Plato
-resident pain in the ass

p.s. I don't believe in the devil. Except for mouth ulcers that you repeatedly bite and won't heal. That truly is evil.

[MartialDev]

"Of course I believe in the devil. If I did not, I should have to believe that I am the devil myself."
~ G. K. Chesterton

[SonoranBob]

Originally Posted by InnerTeaching

Hi,

There is a sticky post on the forum about how many believe in God, but now I'm wondering how many believe in the devil?

I'm really curious for reply's...

Greetings,

I think what you are really asking about is belief in a personal devil, as in an actual being that is the driving force behind evil (leaving aside the question of what evil is and whether it exists).

I think it's a moot point. Bad things exist. I don't think the existence of evil demands an anthropomorphic personification. Many in this forum probably don't think good demands an anthropomorphic personification either.

I come out of a religious tradition that believes in a personal devil, and my thought on the subject is that gods or demons get their power from belief. If you believe in a personal devil, you will fear him and he might as well exist.

But no, even though I have personally experienced entrenched human evil up close, and it is tempting to reject the reality of such depravity by taking its locus away from particular individuals who are expressing it, I don't believe that Satan or lesser demons literally exist. But that's just my opinion, which is worth the same as all opinions about the hypothetical realms beyond the five senses.

--Bob

[InnerTeaching]

Originally Posted by Plato

1) Do you really want to know how many people believe in the existence of a devil ???
If yes
2a) Why do you think an unrepresentative survey will help you?
If no
2b) Why did you really start this thread?


Plato
-resident pain in the ass

p.s. I don't believe in the devil. Except for mouth ulcers that you repeatedly bite and won't heal. That truly is evil.

Ok, the question is maybe wrong understood. I linked it to the popular topic How many believe in God, that's how this question came up. The question should be: What is your image of the devil? Do you think it's kind of a destrucive kosmic power or maybe a person like many believe. I'm not going to count how many really believes in the devil , just wanted a board to talk about this.

For myself, I really don't believe in the devil in any way. I think bad people are just 'ignorant' (this is not a bad thing, just not - knowing) about a 'higher' life or God, but are definitely not driven by some kind of demons.

[Tamra]

Never believed in the concept of evil.

[Ian Smith]

The 'Devil' personifies the dark side of existence, the negative axis, yan, or whatever you'd like to call it. Hades, the underworld, Styx, blah blah blah. There is good and there is evil in this world. Does a Christian figure who's skin is all red, has a pointy, tale, holds a pitchfork, and has two horns exist? No. It's an embodiment of a FORCE within the world.

[Old Soul]

Yes I believe in Satan, and I believe in God

You can not see Satan, but you can see where he is by the results, politics and religion

But spiritual wickedness in 'igh and low places. Bob Marley

[InnerTeaching]

Originally Posted by Old Soul

Yes I believe in Satan, and I believe in God

You can not see Satan, but you can see where he is by the results, politics and religion

Can you specify this, religion? Do you mean that religion come forth from satan or the disturbance between some religions, you see often these days?

[Jamie]

Yes, but I wouldn't use the world 'believe', it's far too weak ...

I have first-hand direct experiecnce, encounters with malignant discorporate (no physical body) entities (demons, devils, whatever, names are irrelevant). This has nothing to do with religion either, and religions notions certainly won't help you if you're unlucky enough to be exposed to such matters.

Jamie.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Yes, but I wouldn't use the world 'believe', it's far too weak ...

I have first-hand direct experiecnce, encounters with malignant discorporate (no physical body) entities (demons, devils, whatever, names are irrelevant). This has nothing to do with religion either, and religions notions certainly won't help you if you're unlucky enough to be exposed to such matters.

Jamie.

Really...

apart from a particularly malignant fart from one of my housemates I can't see any reason not to believe you're either deluded, not telling the truth or schizophrenic.

[Jennihul]

I believe in the creator/source/force/God whatever you prefer to call it. But I also believe that there is nothing but the creator and that everything is of the creator. The source of all is the source of ALL, including things we perceive as evil.

There is no separate devil. If there is anything that comes close to a "devil," it's our human evil-doings.


Jennifer

[SunnKali]

Originally Posted by Jennihul

I believe in the creator/source/force/God whatever you prefer to call it. But I also believe that there is nothing but the creator and that everything is of the creator. The source of all is the source of ALL, including things we perceive as evil.

There is no separate devil. If there is anything that comes close to a "devil," it's our human evil-doings.


Jennifer

Yep - what Jennifer said is my experience/belief as well.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Plato

Really...

apart from a particularly malignant fart from one of my housemates I can't see any reason not to believe you're either deluded, not telling the truth or schizophrenic.

Of course you do, that's because like most people, you're largely governed by your rational mind, and cannot concieve of anything behond it's scope. Like most people, you're not going to readily accept what I claim, and I can't really prove, or convince you as to the truth of what I say, nor would I wish to.

However, if you, or anyone else, is sincere in wanting to learn more; I've posted a thread on this very forum, on this matter, and would be more than happy to direct you to it.

All the best.

Jamie.

[Rockchick26]

I believe not in the devil,but that evil exists only in the absence of good. It's like when you walk into a room,and you turn on the light switch,there is light/goodness. And when you turn the light switch off,there is darkness/evil,but its not because there was a dark switch,just because you turned the light switch off.

[supertom]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

I believe not in the devil,but that evil exists only in the absence of good. It's like when you walk into a room,and you turn on the light switch,there is light/goodness. And when you turn the light switch off,there is darkness/evil,but its not because there was a dark switch,just because you turned the light switch off.

nice

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Of course you do, that's because like most people, you're largely governed by your rational mind, and cannot concieve of anything behond it's scope. Like most people, you're not going to readily accept what I claim, and I can't really prove, or convince you as to the truth of what I say, nor would I wish to.

However, if you, or anyone else, is sincere in wanting to learn more; I've posted a thread on this very forum, on this matter, and would be more than happy to direct you to it.

All the best.

Jamie.

Yeah, and I'm your father. If you want to hear more about how that came about I sadly haven't written a post about it on this forum...

That said, I enjoy a good ghost story. Link me if you think it is of value to somebody who hasn't had the same experience as you.

[Old Soul]

Originally Posted by InnerTeaching

Can you specify this, religion? Do you mean that religion come forth from satan or the disturbance between some religions, you see often these days?

I see politics and Religion on one coin, 2 seperate sides of the same coin
Both are power houses, both are trying to attain something, to achieve something better, often to mans own demise... One side of the coin is claiming the voice of Humility, the other is the voice of Patriotism, so in our collective voice, of progress as a people , although much good has come from both , we may have raised up a monster, a complicated one at best, a confusing one at best

Proverbs 14:12 King James Bible


There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.


Bob Dylan

They say that patriotism is the last refuge
To which a scoundrel clings
Steal a little and they throw you in jail,
Steal a lot and they make you a king.



Martin Sexton "The Beast In Me is the Best In Me"

[InnerTeaching]

Hi everybody,

Here is a small translating of a Dutch book which I am writing. There is a part that describes the concept of good and evil, or as I call it: duality.

“ … and God said: don’t eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He didn’t say, don’t eat from the tree of the knowledge of evil (symbolic of course). That is why you don’t have to see God as good, but as ‘IS’. Evil is just one side of a dualistic world that only exists in the mind of the human being. When you talk about good and evil you talk about duality, whether you talk about good things or bad things. In unity you see everything as ‘IS’ and there will be no judgment in any way. Then you will experience the inner dimension where there is no good or evil, just the silence of being in the unity of here and now …”

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Old Soul

They say that patriotism is the last refuge
To which a scoundrel clings
Steal a little and they throw you in jail,
Steal a lot and they make you a king.

Is that a Bob Dylan quote?

[Barcs]

I do not believe in the devil or good & evil for that matter. I believe many people have clouded judgement and are ignorant and easily succumb to material possesions and wealth. I believe this is a human instinct unfortunately, not the work of some evil being. I do, however, believe in balance. Good deeds and bad deeds cancel each other out to balance the karma of the world. Right now though, the balance is upset.

[Old Soul]

Is that a Bob Dylan quote?

it is a song and lyrics sung by Dylan, the song is called "Sweetheart Like You" however I don't know that it is really his song, he may have done a version of it and it may be an original older blues song by Buddy Guy or someone of that genre

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by InnerTeaching

Hi everybody,

Here is a small translating of a Dutch book which I am writing. There is a part that describes the concept of good and evil, or as I call it: duality.

“ … and God said: don’t eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He didn’t say, don’t eat from the tree of the knowledge of evil (symbolic of course). That is why you don’t have to see God as good, but as ‘IS’. Evil is just one side of a dualistic world that only exists in the mind of the human being. When you talk about good and evil you talk about duality, whether you talk about good things or bad things. In unity you see everything as ‘IS’ and there will be no judgment in any way. Then you will experience the inner dimension where there is no good or evil, just the silence of being in the unity of here and now …”

I believe the default condition of God/Oneness/All that is/The Universe is one of goodness. The true reality is good and manifests as love, joy, sharing, compassion, etc.

Evil is basically an illusion, but it appears to be very real, for example, in the form of hatred, division, selfishness, agression, anger, jealousy, deception, etc.

Each one of us has free will. At any point in time, we are uniting our will (or moving closer), either to God/Oneness/All that is/The Universe, or identifying with our own ego.

If we succumb to the ego, the ego crowns itself as king or god, and the human spirit is overshadowed.
We can succumb to the ego in more subtle ways as well, such as going with the flow, being ungrateful, showing moral laxity and generally pandering to one's physical desires.

We are spiritual beings clothed in the flesh.
There are many discarnate beings. There are are many who love us and wish to help and protect us (e.g. guardian angels).
But there are others who hate us and wish to drag us down to their level.

Whether we call them devils, demons, aspects of the psyche, mass consciousness, symbols, or whatever, is neither here nor there. They are an integral part of the human condition. Denying them, or rationalizing them away, actually plays into their favour, and leads us further downwards into pain, suffering and misery.

Blurring boundaries between good and bad, right and wrong, for me, is a sign of moral cowardice, a new age cop out. Deep down, we all know what we should be doing to love and help others.

And, deep down, we know that some of the decisons we made in the past were just plain wrong because they caused others to suffer unnecessarily. Sadly, for many of us, we just don't have the guts to face up to it.

[Old Soul]

But there are others who hate us and wish to drag us down to their level.

Hi agree with some of your shared thoughts , but not others, for example in understanding the spritual being having a carnal experience, (flesh) I think the "conscience" needs to be explored

there are some people who do not have a healthy functioning conscience, it is corrupted , or seared , or it just plain does not exsist ...and can not be fixed, therfore how can a moral choice , of chosing to be or do good be attained?

Or am I misunderstanding your views?

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Old Soul

Hi agree with some of your shared thoughts , but not others, for example in understanding the spritual being having a carnal experience, (flesh) I think the "conscience" needs to be explored

there are some people who do not have a healthy functioning conscience, it is corrupted , or seared , or it just plain does not exsist ...and can not be fixed, therfore how can a moral choice , of chosing to be or do good be attained?

Or am I misunderstanding your views?

Yes, there are those with little or no conscience who may be unable to choose in an ordinary, human, decent way. They may have a mental illness, be criminally insane, or have suffered some childhood trauma. Obviously, if they think it’s OK to kill others, for example, because they feel like doing it, society needs to be protected from them and they need help. For many others, a bit of education wouldn’t go amiss.

If I had been the biggest, toughest child in the nursery, and was allowed to beat up the other kids and steal their sweets and toys, I would have gone through life, with very little conscience, quite happily believing that was an OK thing to do. Unfortunately, history teaches us that various individuals have been allowed to do exactly that.

[Old Soul]

If I had been the biggest, toughest child in the nursery, and was allowed to beat up the other kids and steal their sweets and toys, I would have gone through life, with very little conscience, quite happily believing that was an OK thing to do. Unfortunately, history teaches us that various individuals have been allowed to do exactly that.

To make this more complicated, and as I understand what I am reading on this topic , there are those who make choices to to do good things in society, but only because they have learned that certain actions will further what it is they are attempting to attain , so the average human being we would not know that this type of sociopath has no conscience.. as they are not that cut and dry.... the book I am reading now is written by an expert in this particular field and has councelled hundreds of thousands of people who have had their lives torn to shreds by "consicence/less" partners , family members coworkers...

You and I know that if we do something that hurts our partner, or a friend , we experience guilt , this guilt is our beromotor , our compass so to speak, people with corrupted conscsciences or none at all never experience "guilt" they are unable to feel guilt for an action taken....

This book I am reading at present called "The Sociopath next door" reveals different types of consciencousless people, some are unbelievabley successful.. the author of course had to change names while giving "real" examples of what she has come across,

She also touches on "mental illness" and the difference between the actions of the mentally ill verses " no conscience" and btw there is a difference

I highly recomend this read for anyone who is interested in this area...


Amazon.com: The Sociopath Next Door: Martha Stout: Books

From Publishers Weekly
[Dr.] Stout says that as many as 4% of the population are conscienceless sociopaths who have no empathy or affectionate feelings for humans or animals. As Stout (The Myth of Sanity) explains, a sociopath is defined as someone who displays at least three of seven distinguishing characteristics, such as deceitfulness, impulsivity and a lack of remorse. Such people often have a superficial charm, which they exercise ruthlessly in order to get what they want. Stout argues that the development of sociopathy is due half to genetics and half to nongenetic influences that have not been clearly identified. The author offers three examples of such people, including Skip, the handsome, brilliant, superrich boy who enjoyed stabbing bullfrogs near his family's summer home, and Doreen, who lied about her credentials to get work at a psychiatric institute, manipulated her colleagues and, most cruelly, a patient. Dramatic as these tales are, they are composites, and while Stout is a good writer and her exploration of sociopaths can be arresting, this book occasionally appeals to readers' paranoia, as the book's title and its guidelines for dealing with sociopaths indicate.

[Alex2007]

You want to see the evil?

Here SHE is:

[Alex2007]

Post needing approval? Why?

[bellemeadows]

I rather like the idea that the devil is a concept in our mind, and in our lives, rather than a reality. To me it is like dark. Dark does not exist on its own, it is the absence of light. The devil exists in a mind that is not filled with light. The mind that is filled with light, when confronted with a concept of 'devil' or satan, says, just as Jesus did -- get thee behind me, thou could have no power over me . . . .

I don't know if I quoted that right -- if I didn't please feel free to correct me.

Now from the viewpoint of the body and the ego, this perspective must be nonsense; because bad things can happen to a body, an ego. But the Q then is, are you a body? If you are, then some concept of the devil is bound to plague you. If not, it isn't even an issue.

Blessings from Belle

[joecooool]

the devils existence, just like gods existence, is currently unknown,

and therefore belief that the devil/god exists, or does not exist, is unjustified.

unknown things are irrelevant to life

i would never waste my time in church every Sunday, or waste my time worrying about hell based on the guess that god or the devil are real.