Spiritual Enlightenment: The Damnedest Thing > anyone read it?

[Megan]

By Royce, Yesterday 04:11 PM

I hit an area of social drag a while ago, where communicating with friends became very difficult because they would see me as this character they've built up in their mind, and not respond well when i broke the continuity of that character.

I wanted to know if there were other people out there experiencing events like that and how you dealt with what was happening, and the turn out.

Yes, I experience that when I'm around my family and around people from my former religion.

Social drag is a very good way of putting it, because it feels like they drag me back to who I use to be, if I'm not careful.

I think of it as a meditation, and a way for me to burn off/transmute the vestiges of my former self that linger. For me, it's been a long process, because I'm just starting to get what the process actually is, and I've been bumbling around for years.

Basically, I think it wouldn't bother me at all if I had processed all my stuff. To the extent that it bothers me, that is an indication that I have deadwood that needs to burn off/transmute. It's never the other person, or the situation IOW.

I think I could comfortably be anywhere and with anyone if all my stuff was processed.

And I think that my soul brings up precisely the situations I need to be in to point out what is still needing to be processed, so there is no use resisting what comes up. I do resist, but I'm beginning to know better.

[Royce_aus]

Originally Posted by Megan

Basically, I think it wouldn't bother me at all if I had processed all my stuff. To the extent that it bothers me, that is an indication that I have deadwood that needs to burn off/transmute. It's never the other person, or the situation IOW.

I think I could comfortably be anywhere and with anyone if all my stuff was processed.

And I think that my soul brings up precisely the situations I need to be in to point out what is still needing to be processed, so there is no use resisting what comes up. I do resist, but I'm beginning to know better.

Yeah i really agree with you there Megan, It's never the other person and i sometimes forget when i get heated up(sparks to my deadwood)
It sometimes creates a swell of anger and at that point i remember that it is my soul bringing this up for me to learn from.

with respect to the alternate thread going on within this thread i'm actually really enjoying reading it. its something i believe but i've never read anything cool like what you guys have posted about the subject.
I'd love to understand quantum physics, but from what i hear so would the professionals.

[Megan]

Yeah, I'm still working on the geography I didn't learn in GRADE SCHOOL.

Learning the map of Earth -- benefits of doing so!

But spiritual enlightenment really is the damnedest thing...you got that right. If I had my life to live over, I wouldn't have the strength.

[Narz]

Originally Posted by Megan

But...I still shop at Wal-mart, I'm ashamed to say.

I do too but I try to return everything I buy there once it is no longer useful (within the three month period I try to find the item cheaper elsewhere, preferably a thrift store).

[Megan]

um...wouldn't that be worse karma...but...um...I'm thinking....

[Narz]

Originally Posted by Megan

um...wouldn't that be worse karma...but...um...I'm thinking....

Nah, taking advantage of WalMart is good karma. Stealing from them, I imagine, would be even better.

Same goes for military organizations or corporations or any exploitive people or groups.

Course better is to avoid dealing with them altogether but if you must work within a corrupt system, the least we can do is to not contribute to it.

[Megan]

....dunno 'bout dat...stealing's gonna reach 'round & bite us on da b'hind, I'm 'fraid...holographic universe & all bein' what tis....

[Glass Joe]

Just wanted to say that I finished reading Jed's first book yesterday and I'm starting on his second book today. (I had to drive across town to the only library that had it available, but I didn't want to wait.)

What a great book... I'm not sure what to say about it though... I think I still need to let it sit with me for awhile, and just let it marinate, before I can say anything about it. So maybe I'll post more comments about it later.

Definitely not an inspirational book though. I think I'd be a lot more depressed than I am now if I wasn't already wrestling with some of these ideas for the last month or so.

[Royce_aus]

Originally Posted by Glass Joe

Definitely not an inspirational book though. I think I'd be a lot more depressed than I am now if I wasn't already wrestling with some of these ideas for the last month or so.

I felt the same when considering sharing this book with my friends, (some of which suffer from diagnosed depression) but i really took on the view point that it was more of a save point(game reference) for someone who's already started looking.
every time i'm challenged by something that seems to defeat me, i can return to some of the concepts from this series and return with more strength.

The second book was harder for me to keep up with mainly because of the language used in moby dick. Good luck and can't wait to hear what you're learning from this experience

[Glass Joe]

Originally Posted by Royce_aus

The second book was harder for me to keep up with mainly because of the language used in moby dick. Good luck and can't wait to hear what you're learning from this experience

Yeah, now that I finished the second book, I can see what you mean.

Maybe you can find it at the library, but I recommend getting the audio book version too, in addition to the printed book. I started out with just reading the printed book, but since I found the audio book available too, I switched over to listening to the book rather than just reading it, which turned out to be much better.

The reader on the audio book is really good at voice tones and subtle inflections that help get the meaning across much better. (i.e. sarcasm, exhaustion, indifference, confidence, impatience, confusion, etc.) The reader also gives a pretty good performance when reading the Moby Dick dialogues. And I think hearing "pirate speak" rather than trying to read "pirate speak" made things much easier to understand.

I'll post more comments about the two books later, after I read through them again. But one thing I want to comment on now, something I got from the second book, is this:

Before enlightenment: Looking out in front of you, you see that you must give up absolutely everything. The price of truth is everything.

After enlightenment: Looking back, you see that you gave up nothing at all. The price of truth was nothing.

[Megan]

By Glass Joe, Today 03:07 AM

Before enlightenment: Looking out in front of you, you see that you must give up absolutely everything. The price of truth is everything.

After enlightenment: Looking back, you see that you gave up nothing at all. The price of truth was nothing.

I watched Forrest Gump last night on TV, and was thinking exactly what you said here, Joe.

I think a scene in the movie is a perfect metaphor for what you just said.

It seemed that Forrest was deprived--not only was he not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but he was crippled besides.

Then to add insult to injury, he's being chased down the road by bullies in a car and he can't run because he's wearing braces!

But he has to run! So he runs, awkwardly clunking along in his braces, and then, lo and behold, the braces...the things that supposedly were holding him together...the braces start coming unpinned and flying off in pieces and Forrest then discovers he can run like the wind!

I loved that scene.

St. Paul expresses a similar attitude: "I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung."

[Liara Covert]

How we interpret truth is influenced by movies and popular culture as well as books. It can be hard to distinguish between our perceived reality and our imagination. Books such as those mentioned in this thread often cause us to question our understanding of reality. Author C.S. Lewis describes 3 levels of human thought in his novel The Screwtape Letters.

Will: At this level, everything is perceived real, and factual. The thoughts influence your daily life and govern all of your actions. Also, thoughts are usually subconscious, influencing you without you really knowing it. Yet, you decide what details to absorb, what is essential and also worth discarding.

Intellect: Thoughts on this level tend to be conscious thoughts, concious decisions. These thoughts can be anything at all, and don't necessarily influence you in any great way. Consider them floating ideas.

Fantasy: The final and most distant level of thought. Thoughts here are random, often nonsensical. Many times these thoughts encompass the results of your actions, since no one consciously realizes what their actions may mean.

How do you decide was is reasonable, logical or not? Do books cause you to change your view of yourself?

[Glass Joe]

Hey Royce_aus,

I said I was going to add some more comments after I went through these two books some more, so I wanted to post something to this thread before I forgot.

However, I don't think I have that much to comment on yet, because I'm still going through them and I'm still not sure what to say about them. The books are very hard to categorize and also hard to summarize into a few paragraphs.

But now that I'm getting more familiar with the books and more used to their ideas, I'm not looking at them through rose-tinted glasses anymore. For instance, I'm starting to develop my own disagreements with some of the ideas, but I'm not sure yet. My disagreements may be totally wrong. But whether my disagreements are right or wrong (probably wrong, or more likely simply irrelevant), I'm looking at the books with a more critical eye, and also researching some of these ideas on my own elsewhere, which I think is good.

Also, my emotional reactions to these books have been like night and day. One day I feel like such a loser and a chump for all the time I've wasted and all the wrong turns I've made. And the next day I feel so lucky and fortunate for all the progress I've made up to this point, and for how this book crossed my path at the perfect time.

BTW – THANKS ROYCE_AUS!!!

Here are some general thoughts on the books so far...

1. Multiple paths

The first book briefly addresses multiple spiritual paths (wisdom, action, meditation, devotion) and how his ideas apply to them. I won't go into detail about the paths themselves, but here's a wikipedia article that goes over these four paths if you are unfamiliar with the idea. Personally, I think this book applies to those on a more knowledge-centered, wisdom-centered approach rather than an action-centered or heart-centered approach.

The book itself says that the path you choose doesn't really matter (a wake-up call is still a wake-up call). But I think the author addresses the existence of multiple paths for a reason, and also says that he never had any desire or reason to question Sonaya's more action-oriented path. The author's job (and the character Jed McKenna's job) seems more focused on helping people on the knowledge-centered path to get unstuck and out of a rut.

I'm mentioning this distinction about paths here because this book probably won't be all that helpful to people on other paths. For instance - Jed telling you that ALL your beliefs are excrement, isn't a very heart-centered approach.

2. Intention-Manifestation and Nature of Reality

Jed even mentions that his book will find you when you are ready, and says things like "When the student is ready, the teacher appears". He even uses the phrase "resonates with me", which in turn, resonates with me. He also makes some references to how he already pretty much knows how the universe works, and how his life goes with the flow, and how he doesn't have to worry about money, because he knows that money will find him. He also talks about how he already knows how to manifest a desire before he even is consciously aware that he desired something. He doesn't go into that much detail about this type of stuff, but it seems like he already knew this stuff before actually "waking up".

Also, even though Jed talks about manifesting desires, the nature of reality, resonance, seeing patterns, and going with the flow, he doesn't make the mistake of equating self-improvement and peak experiences with "waking up". He goes to great lengths to make the distinctions between (a) being fully awake, (b) starting the process of waking up, and (c) upgrading your dream character and/or doing anything that can fall under the umbrella of attaining more-blissful peak experiences.

I know Jed is a fictional character, but I'm mentioning this because I think the author is saying that it's beneficial to understand your relationship with the universe, and understand the nature of reality, and have some peak experiences, and already have some level of faith in LoA/I-M/whatever before entertaining ideas about self-annihilation. But then again, now that I think about it, the author also talks about the benefits of discovering Truth first, and how you can spend the rest of your life (without any inner conflict) doing the more spiritual (and probably more fun) stuff afterwards. I can see how both ways can work. So I guess it depends on whatever you feel particularly drawn to at the moment. It's all good.

3. Richard Rose

I don't remember how I found these sites, but there are some blogs and web pages that speculate that Jed McKenna is actually Richard Rose. Personally, I don't think so, because the movie references in the book seem way too current to come from Richard Rose himself (who passed away in 2005). But who knows?... Maybe Richard Rose wrote these books earlier in his life and then someone else recently edited them and published them for him before his death.

Personally, although there are a lot of similarities between the fictional Jed McKenna and the real-life Richard Rose, I think the books are more likely a tribute to Richard Rose, written by one of his friends or former students, rather than written by Richard Rose himself.

Regardless, it's not that big of a deal, I just thought I'd mention Richard Rose here just in case you never heard of him before. (I sure didn't) So if you liked Jed McKenna's books, you'll probably also like reading Richard Rose too.

[Royce_aus]

I really must go through this (the first) book again, and subject my self to the the shock, the ups of fortune and downs of lost time.
From reading your earlier post i was intrigued to check out wei wu wei and just read a quote (although i dislike quoting for the sake of quoting)

- Doctrines, scriptures, sutras, essays, are not to be regarded as systems to be followed. They merely contribute to understanding. They should be for us a source of stimulation, and nothing more... Adopted, rather than used as a stimulus, they are a hindrance. - wei wu wei

I intend to manifest stimulation and not hinder myself, I was wondering if you have read many of wei's books and whether you would recommend any. I love the cut the crap attitude expressed by jed.
The multiple paths i find very interesting. from previous experience i believe i am using a cycle of those paths moving from meditation to action to wisdom.
the devotion to me is more like the motivational force bridging the 3 paths.

I have not heard of Richard Rose before and that article on him was very interesting, and i'm now inspired enough to seek some of his wisdom.

I try to be wary of the rut that so often occurs when i seek information, it tends to push me to seek more and act less. Its just so enjoyable and comforting to hear these other minds having thoughts of a similar nature. When most minds i see out in public seem withdrawn, and unwilling to question reality.

Sky diving! I had a desire and i fulfilled it by sky diving, i always thought it would be fun and i recently (january) took an opportunity to try it out. It's fantastic. It is definately something i would recommend to anyone. And while going up i was blissfully reminded of the scene where jed's chute opens and causes havok, the instructors i was with wondered why i looked so calm.

[Glass Joe]

Originally Posted by Royce_aus

I was wondering if you have read many of wei's books and whether you would recommend any

I currently own only 2 of his books, but I think I've read 4 or 5 of his books. All of the ones I read are good, except for his last book (Unwordly Wise), which is a parable about a rabbit and an owl. I like parables, but that book seemed very poorly written. But then again, maybe it was just way over my head.

I recommend "Fingers Pointing Towards the Moon", because it's his first book and it also sounds like you grasp that concept pretty well. If you are so inclined, "All Else is Bondage" is his shortest, most to-the-point book, but I must say that there are some passages in there that still make my head hurt. "Open Secret" is (I think) his longest book, and I just started re-reading that book again a couple days ago.

[Liara Covert]

Well Royce_aus,

I like the books you mentioned. They compel reflection and self-questioning. By the way, how would you relate your recent sky diving experience to spiritual enlightenment? Did you life flash in front of you? Why do you think you felt so calm?

[Royce_aus]

The experience i had while sky diving was very interesting, i was calm because i had no fear, i wasn't afraid anything might go wrong, nor was i afraid of the height as i have been while standing on a rooftop looking down. Because i had rationalized that the parachute would fix that up.
The way i relate it to spiritual enlightenment is the sensation of leaving the small crowded plane and the entire world felt like it opened up infront of me as we began to accelerate, I think there are some natural chemicals that would also be going off in my body at that point but i just remember that it felt so liberating, and if expansive was an emotion then that's what i felt.
Also the elated feeling i had for the entire day, i felt good and nothing bothered me. I've had similar mental states from meditation so I'd say i kinda felt 'zen'.

Which is cool, but the whole deal to me was a milestone for achieving what i set out to do in life. Jumping out of a plane was my starting point. Travelling the world is my next step.

[Liara Covert]

Hi Royce_aus.

That's a truly fantastic analogy. I wondered if you had done a tandem jump or a solo jump. Your experience sounds like it helps explain your desire to live life to the fullest. Some people project fears and aim to talk skydivers out of taking their jumps.

1) Did anyone take a shot at persuading you to cancel the jump?
2) Did you ponder long and hard before the flight or was it an impulsive move?
3) Why do you think you required such a real plunge to feel truly liberated?

Your traveling aspirations will assist you on your road to discovery. I sense courage and thrill-seeking will also continue to teach you about yourself.

[Royce_aus]

It was a tandem jump, and i had no hesitations once i had felt the desire to jump i booked it, waited 2 weeks and then went along.

The reactions i was getting from people were amusing, my father thought i was joking and rather then trying to convince me not to jump he would say 'no you're not' as though he knew i wasn't, and tell me stories about people from work who broke their ankles and even died.
I'm rather strong headed so if I'm sure i want something it's almost impossible to persuade me.

I believe I'm at the stage of my life where i need to break off from my family, leave the nest. Sky diving was something that initiated that for me as it was something i could do as an act of independence. Since then I found a means to travel and work by teaching English overseas the jump has really shown me that i have that independence and courage to face things without the help of my family. I think it's quite a common stage and the approach I'm taking to go through it is going to be as interesting as I can make it.

[yoopersmith]

Originally Posted by Royce_aus

I've just recently read two books by an author 'Jed Mckenna'

Spiritual Enlightenment: The Damnedest Thing
Spiritually Incorrect Enlightenment

I found both of these very challenging and very enjoyable to go through. and i'd like to know if anyone around these parts has heard of or read either of these books, although there seems to be some controversy about whether Jed actually exists i believe its a case of the finger pointing at the moon, and the books are what i'd really like to begin discussion on.
After reading these books i found that my personal beliefs and many of my habits/desires simply dropped off like well fed leeches.
I also found myself hunting down articles on this site as i went through different stages of conciousness and had a small case of social drag(thanks steve the articles i found were a great comfort in my cases of despair). I attempted and still go back to a process called spiritual autolysis where I begin to write like journaling until i find something true. Its a rough process at the best of times , i enjoy it.
Anyway lets get the ball rolling for those of you who havent read/heard these books you might try reading this article

Jed McKenna

I am currently half way through both books, and I am really enjoying them both.

The point of Damnedest is to point out that Jed's version of enlightenment is something different than what most people think. Let me define the terms as I understand them:

1. Abiding non-dual awareness: Being truly awake. The inability to fully engage in dream activities. The total destruction of EGO. The state of wanting nothing. Abiding awareness of truth.

2. Becoming an adult human being: Realization that the world is false and boldly creating your most ideal and most fulfilling dream state, but not actually waking up.

Now, I am stuck on which one I really want. I think most of what Jed encourages his readers to do is to make #2 the goal and only make #1 your goal if you fell compelled or inclined to do so.

I have attempted the process Jed labeled “spiritual autolysis” only once and I may try it again, but I do not feel the pull to do so like Ahab felt toward Moby Dick. If I do feel compelled to go whale hunting…I’ll let you know.

Did anyone else that read the books feel like Jed dumped a bucket of cold water on you?

[Royce_aus]

Thanks for the reply, since reading both books (a long time ago now) and revisiting the thoughts i had during the process of coming to understand what it all meant to me.

I also tried the technique of writting although it never really felt like the right thing for me. I believe that we all have the need for 'inventing' our own methods for uncovering the truths in life. And i think that we really are the only ones who can create the method for walking our paths.

But that's not to say don't try spritual autolysis, but rather if you do try it with your own spin, I still occasionally write for myself but I do find it confronting re-reading myself because it all seems quite silly after the mindset that created it has passed.

[Mark Lapierre]

I didn't read them, but I listened to the audio books. I stopped listening halfway through Spiritually Incorrect Enlightenment because he seemed to be repeating the same thing over and over.

Royce, I think one reason for the process is to discover those things that seem incongruous, because that's a sign it's not the core of who you really are.

But ultimately I think the process is more likely to result in reinforcing negative thoughts about the influence of society on our individual development. These thoughts would then prejudice us against those we see as continuing to influence others in a way we now see as negative. And not surprisingly Jed himself doesn't seem to care much for anyone not on the path, nor for those who follow a different path towards what they see as the same destination (and he's quite clear in what he thinks of the mysticism surrounding some spiritual teachings, despite employing some of the very same methods (particularly ambiguous, contradictory statements)). The concept of abiding non-dual awareness seems no less mystical mumbo-jumbo than much of what Jed seems to believe is just a distraction from the path towards spiritual enlightenment

The process, as Jed describes it, doesn't feel ultimately beneficial to me, though the core idea of striping away the layers which influence us is something I find appealing, only in the sense that some layers are beneficial, and some not. I don't see any purpose in completely stripping away everything, and especially not in doing so violently.

[karen beck]

feels like all of us are making necessary strides toward enlightment or God realization - why else would we be involved in and sharing this

eckhart's books are so practical - made me see how much negativity we bring to ourselves via the ego (edging God out)

we never even live because we are swirling around back and forth between the past and future (old tapes projected back and forward)

if we only realize who we really are then collectively we'd be in heaven :-)

what separates us is the ego - as jesus said BE IN THE WORLD, BUT NOT OF IT - we value our "things" and worry about death - things are not real and won't last - life is forever - with such faulty reasoning (ego) we stifle God/life

it is a journey - one thing, take a look at your dreams and your life and how they reflect upon one another (the ego) - step outside and be free - i do not see it as a game ultimately, although i do not object to the notion - perhaps it is like the caterpillar and the butterfly for me - yes - we are transitioning out of illusion and into God/life