What did we do to drop out of the garden of Eden?

[Erki]

I mean the garden of Eden figuratively, not Biblically, here.

From another thread:

Originally Posted by Jennihul

Souls are all here to teach either themselves or humanity lessons that should lead us all to a higher level of consciousness and an eventual return to universal perfection.

So we used to be perfect? What did we do then to not be perfect any more? And if we did some mistake, we weren't really perfect anyway...?

[jippykid]

Erki,

You should check out "A Course in Miracles". It's a new generation message from Christ (or your higher self, ultimate consciousness, - insert whatever term you need to use-, etc.). It details how you might return to that perfect state through forgiveness. Apparently we got a little cocky and told "god" that we could do better making our own choices, so "he" let us go out on our own, and is waiting for us to come back -remember the story of the prodigal son?

I just recently finished the book Disappearance of the Universe by Gary Renard. It's an easy read, and a good intro into what ACIM is teaching. You may want to pick it up first.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Erki

I mean the garden of Eden figuratively, not Biblically, here.

From another thread:



So we used to be perfect? What did we do then to not be perfect any more? And if we did some mistake, we weren't really perfect anyway...?

We separated from source, created egos and defined everything in sight as not us and became remote to source (or God or the universe...). We are perfect but with our egos running the show we forget that. Or we have created an illusion, called the ego, that we believe is us - we really are perfect in being. We can return to the garden of eden by re-realizing we are one with spirit/source/God. Once we tune into being and relax the mind/ego/thoughts we can get a felt sense of eden back and feel connected to source.

[Dharma]

So we used to be perfect?
Nope.

What did we do then to not be perfect any more?
Created the concept of perfection and said perfection is not NOW. It's in the future or past somewhere.

[danas]

We were perfect, and still are, but we were bored in the garden of eden.

Deep down we wanted a challenge, so that we can express our perfection.
Its like if you write with white ink on a while paper nobodys gonna see what you wrote, we need the contrast (lifes challenges) so that with some effort we can express perfection.

In the infinite reality we were in a fully lit room, we saw we had everything we could possibly desire. But how boring is that? Like ok, so whats the point of the game?

So to make the game more interesting, the lights were turned off, we still can have it all, we just need to really belive its there and find it in the darkness

thats how I see it anyway

[NightMyst3]

I don't think so. I think our souls rest in a "slumber" waiting for 2 more humanoids to pro-create thus giving us another chance at life.

I think when we die our "influence and emotion" kind of drifts off and can be picked up by non-humans (which will give their offspring that certain influence/emotion. the moment of conception is when everything is "sucked in" such as DNA and everything else right?)

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

We separated from source, created egos and defined everything in sight as not us and became remote to source (or God or the universe...). We are perfect but with our egos running the show we forget that. Or we have created an illusion, called the ego, that we believe is us - we really are perfect in being. We can return to the garden of eden by re-realizing we are one with spirit/source/God. Once we tune into being and relax the mind/ego/thoughts we can get a felt sense of eden back and feel connected to source.

Hi wolfgang, I see this too. I think though, that perfection is relative and so I prefer to say we change form. Leaving god out of this, my question is why?

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by Erki

So we used to be perfect? What did we do then to not be perfect any more? And if we did some mistake, we weren't really perfect anyway...?

It wasn't a mistake per se. We desired to feel more intensely, and because of that desire, the opportunity was brought into existence. We existed within the eternal cosmic orgasm (), but even an eternal orgasm is nothing if you have nothing to compare it to. This opportunity necessarily involved duality, which implies separation (two-ness instead of one-ness). Since real separation is not possible, perception came into being, which allowed for illusions to be created. Separation was then simulated. An opposite to oneness was simulated.

Perfection is simply a definition. Nothing more, nothing less. You, as consciousness, create all such measuring sticks. The simulated state of separation enhances appreciation for the true state of oneness and allowed for a more robust variety of experience to be possible.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Maguru

Hi wolfgang, I see this too. I think though, that perfection is relative and so I prefer to say we change form. Leaving god out of this, my question is why?

I like that - we change form. Because I see the perfectness of us in being as a moving target in a way. We are perfectly unfolding and being exactly what is - there's no way to be other than exactly what is right now. For why? Why is it this way? Why are we perfect in being but not perfect in not being? We tend to think we aren't perfect because we are unconscious and have over active minds that have past and future running around to regret or worry about, which robs us of the perfect being we are. I wonder what I write here sometimes, I was just chuckling about what I wrote.

[Jonathan Mead]

Anagogy, you put that into words so concisely and fluidly. I've never heard of falling, or ego-based consciousness in relation to cosmic conscioussness defined so well.

To elaborate a little, I would also add that our "fall" could be interpreted as different things. If you want to define our fall as the movement from unity to division via perception, I think that's accurate. However, I think there's another fall we as conscious beings perceive, distinct from other animals and that is our awareness of knowledge. Our perception of good and bad, right and wrong and basic division is the result of our mind perceiving reality through the lense of survival. What will help me survive versus what won't. When we evolve past the level of survival thinking, fear based thinking, we are able to move into highers levels of consciousness and realize the illusion of our perceived duality.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

I like that - we change form. Because I see the perfectness of us in being as a moving target in a way. We are perfectly unfolding and being exactly what is - there's no way to be other than exactly what is right now. For why? Why is it this way? Why are we perfect in being but not perfect in not being? We tend to think we aren't perfect because we are unconscious and have over active minds that have past and future running around to regret or worry about, which robs us of the perfect being we are. I wonder what I write here sometimes, I was just chuckling about what I wrote.

We are prefectly perfect in our imperfections

[JMan]

ultimate perfection requires absolute truth

relative truth defines relative perfection

[iNoe]

everything is a thought.
we are pure - it IS our thought distortions that separate us from the source.

that is why deep meditation or use of entheogens causes ego loss/mind and body separation.

WE ARE INFINITE AWARENESS

Feel, don't think

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by iNoe

everything is a thought.

Isn't thought expressions from the ego? I think you say the same as this in the rest of your post. Everything is feeling, I would say. Thought is the expression of individuality.

we are pure - it IS our thought distortions that separate us from the source.

that is why deep meditation or use of entheogens causes ego loss/mind and body separation.

Body separation? I tend to feel the body as part of spirit too. Are you saying the body doesn't matter? I mean, it's like part of my spirit is sticking itself out into this 3d world, my awareness of being would be less than it is if I denied this 3d projection. Like cutting off on of my fingers if I was just my physical body. but then the body is an illusion, so it's said. Although that illusion probably doesn't go away when we realize that. It stays as a film or something and continues to grow or decay or whatever based on some sort of momentum that spirit put into matter.

WE ARE INFINITE AWARENESS

Feel, don't think

I think you are right. Or rather should say I feel you are right.

[iNoe]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

Isn't thought expressions from the ego? I think you say the same as this in the rest of your post. Everything is feeling, I would say. Thought is the expression of individuality.

Let me reply to further clarify what I meant by quoting from the book of one (a channeled session on Jan. 15, 1981)

"Let us for a moment consider thought. What is it, my friends, to take thought? Took you then thought today? What thoughts did you think today? What thoughts were part of the original thought today? In how many of your thoughts did the creation lie? Was love contained? And was service freely given? You are not part of a material universe. You are part of a thought. You are dancing in a ballroom in which there is no material. You are dancing thoughts. You move your body, your mind, and your spirit in somewhat eccentric patterns for you have not completely grasped the concept that you are part of the original thought."

&

"advanced approach to the system of studying the patterns of the illusions of your body, your mind, and your spirit, which you call seeking the truth"

It has been said by Wayne Dyer after reading the Tao Te Ching that we have 60,000 thoughts everyday. The problem is, we have the same thoughts day in and day out.

Originally Posted by wolfgang

Body separation? I tend to feel the body as part of spirit too. Are you saying the body doesn't matter? I mean, it's like part of my spirit is sticking itself out into this 3d world, my awareness of being would be less than it is if I denied this 3d projection. Like cutting off on of my fingers if I was just my physical body. but then the body is an illusion, so it's said. Although that illusion probably doesn't go away when we realize that. It stays as a film or something and continues to grow or decay or whatever based on some sort of momentum that spirit put into matter.

In my opinion in this human body 3D experience, expanding our consciousness is what it is all about. Life has no meaning - it is the purpose you create for life, you give it definition. Your reality, this 3D experience is all an illusion.

The definition of Maya:
1. the power, as of a god, to produce illusions.
2. the production of an illusion.
3. (in Vedantic philosophy) the illusion of the reality of sensory experience and of the experienced qualities and attributes of oneself.

I am not saying that the body doesn't matter, what I am saying that it doesn't define our TRUE selves. It is a vessel. Like an automobile. In your life, you may own several different vehicles. When you die, you shed your skin, and your energy moves on. Everything is energy. Everything in our reality is a projected thought distortion.

If you look at the 4 laws of creation:
1. You exist, you always will in some form.
2. The one is the all, and the all are the one.
3. What you put out is what you get back.
4. Change is the only constant.

Everything based off of those 4 laws will allow you to enhance every aspect of your being. It is the EXPERIENCE.

In 1637 Cartesian coordinate system was put into place after Renee Decartes wrote two papers titled: Discourse on Method & La Géométrie. This was taught in educational systems from then on. Confining us to the 3rd dimension. Other civilations were aware of the other dimensions.

As the ancient mayan culture recognized there are other dimensions, they also recognized that the 'soul' is in the solar plexus and apart of the earth, the 'spirit' is in our pineal gland or third eye and is apart of the stars.

I am not saying what is right and what is wrong, your truth is your truth. I am not trying to convince you otherwise - just presenting information.



A good read is DMT: The Spirit Molecule.
"DMT: The Spirit Molecule", by Dr. Rick Stassman MD

Dimethyltryptahmine (DMT) is a chemical in the center of all of our brains located in our pineal gland (or the third eye) and many plants. It is amazing the results of his studies. It causes mind/body separation. I have had many out of body experiences and I must say - I can understand how the pieces fit.

"All energy is nearly matter condensed to a slow vibration, we are one consciousness - experiencing itself, life is but a dream, we are an imagination of ourselves" - Bill Hicks

Thankyou for your response and interaction in this co-creative process

[Jonathan Mead]

iNoe, great comments. We are pure awareness, unbounded creativity, an infinite possibility of space-time events. I'll have to take a look into The Spirit Molecule, it sounds very interesting. I'm a huge fan of Alex Grey's work as well, it should be a trip. =D

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by iNoe

In my opinion in this human body 3D experience, expanding our consciousness is what it is all about. Life has no meaning - it is the purpose you create for life, you give it definition. Your reality, this 3D experience is all an illusion.

I have had out of body experiences. Then also had partial oobe's that included some sleep paralysis. I get the feeling that to be in my body is where it's at. That if I leave my body, while it still has life energy in it - I'm doing something a little unnatural and unsafe. Although it was facinating to walk around in my etheric body and see (or sense) what was like a lattice or sort of blue looking strands.

Dimethyltryptahmine (DMT) is a chemical in the center of all of our brains located in our pineal gland (or the third eye) and many plants. It is amazing the results of his studies. It causes mind/body separation. I have had many out of body experiences and I must say - I can understand how the pieces fit.

Have you run into Stuart Wilde's material? He's been on the kick of ayahuasca that apparently releases DMT. They were even holding workshops in Brazil for going on a journey with this plant as a teacher, that shamans have been doing for a long time.

There was also something about how our pineal gland is depleted because of modern life (?although don't remember the specifics of why). We, humans, used to have much more natural DMT.

"All energy is nearly matter condensed to a slow vibration, we are one consciousness - experiencing itself, life is but a dream, we are an imagination of ourselves" - Bill Hicks

Thankyou for your response and interaction in this co-creative process

your welcome. thank you.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Anagogy

It wasn't a mistake per se. We desired to feel more intensely, and because of that desire, the opportunity was brought into existence. We existed within the eternal cosmic orgasm (), but even an eternal orgasm is nothing if you have nothing to compare it to. This opportunity necessarily involved duality, which implies separation (two-ness instead of one-ness). Since real separation is not possible, perception came into being, which allowed for illusions to be created. Separation was then simulated. An opposite to oneness was simulated.

Perfection is simply a definition. Nothing more, nothing less. You, as consciousness, create all such measuring sticks. The simulated state of separation enhances appreciation for the true state of oneness and allowed for a more robust variety of experience to be possible.

AG, I agree with what you've said.

I would just like to add that human problems, such as pain and suffering, seem to arise when we identify too much with this separation, this illusion, this dream. Forgetfulness creeps in and we forget what we are really about.

It seems to be ingrained in human nature that we wish to experience the negative, less savoury aspects of life, initially out of curiosity, "I wonder where that white rabbit is going. I must follow it". Then the descent from wholeness into separation begins.

Once we are immersed in these conditions, it is then quite difficult to rise up out of them, as we have invested so much of our own consciusness in them.

We are attracted into a spider's web of our own creation and design, and the more we struggle, the more tightly bound we become.

[jsam]

Hi!
In the book I am writing, I tell how I was amazed at the ancient understandings behind the Genesis myth... Adam and Eve (pre-humans) were innocent like other animals- non-judgemental, not self-conscious. Then they ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge (evolved verbal language and the ability to think abstractly- "thinking about"-, which was of great survival advantage, but created the "ego" personal concept which they identified with and created the illusion of being separate from the ecological system they were (and still are) in. When we let go the attachment to our ego and its illusions, we discover that we are still a part of the Garden! (easier said than done!) Namaste...John

[SuperManny]

In the original The Matrix movie, when the machines took over, they created a perfect virtual world, where nobody lacked for anything and everybody's needs were met. It was a miserable failure!

There was no motivation, no spirit, no drive, nothing to live for. This is what Eden turned into after the newness wore off. We didn't even have "Knowledge of good and evil".

So, what we need to do now, is to go back to the "Tree of Life" and partake of its fruit, without giving up on the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

[fellowtraveler]

Originally Posted by danas