How many enlightened people are there?

[Erock]

I've thought about this before, and I've come to the conclusion that there are probably more enlightened people then we think in the world. I'm guessing that once a person becomes enlightened they simply disappear into the background, telling very few people about their state, and living very humble lives. With everyone else in the world trying to stand out, it's probably very difficult to notice them. The few that are famous are only famous because people have found them and questioned them endlessly (I'm thinking of Tolle here).

Do you guys agree with me? How many enlightened people do you think are alive today? A few hundred, a thousand, more? I'm curious as to people's estimates on this.

Erock

[MagnusTapping]

Doesn't it rather depend on what you think 'Enlightened' means?

[SuperManny]

Imagine how the world would change if just one person became enlightened.
Imagine how your world would change if that one person was you!

[Maguru]

I don't believe there are any truly enlightened people in the world. If they were, they would find a way to pass on the good news. Isn't that what enlightenment is all about? To bring us wisdom, joy and meaning. I'm sorry, but it hasn't happened yet.

Originally Posted by Erock

I've thought about this before, and I've come to the conclusion that there are probably more enlightened people then we think in the world. I'm guessing that once a person becomes enlightened they simply disappear into the background, telling very few people about their state, and living very humble lives. With everyone else in the world trying to stand out, it's probably very difficult to notice them. The few that are famous are only famous because people have found them and questioned them endlessly (I'm thinking of Tolle here).

Do you guys agree with me? How many enlightened people do you think are alive today? A few hundred, a thousand, more? I'm curious as to people's estimates on this.

Erock

[Calisto]

The works of Buddhism, and the 15th chapter of the Tao te Ch'ing, don't refer to 'Enlightened' people as being 'out there'. It refers to the active qualities we are to find within our self.

[Calisto]

No one is as enlightened as His Holiness The 14th Dalai Lama of Tibet. Yet he does not claim to be enlightened. The Dalai Lama says he's "just a simple monk" with no exceptional wisdom to impart. "Others are always making too much of my words," he says. "People are too serious. All the time, too serious."

His Holiness the Dalai Lama

[Freelancer]

Originally Posted by SuperManny

Imagine how the world would change if just one person became enlightened.
Imagine how your world would change if that one person was you!

I'd rather not since the whole meaning of enlightenment is the 'you' dissappears.

Its funny how many paradoxes the world has and especially something so simple as enlightenment.

At one of Tolle's tapes in the middle he suddenly switches from a 'tolle is talking' to 'you are talking'. It was very subtle and difficult to explain.

The thing is, enlightenment is inside you, yet there are also enlightened people 'outside' of you. Told you this stuff is full of paradoxical things.

Just like the dalai lama is a simple monk, yet at the same time so much more.

I don't believe there are any truly enlightened people in the world. If they were, they would find a way to pass on the good news. Isn't that what enlightenment is all about? To bring us wisdom, joy and meaning. I'm sorry, but it hasn't happened yet.

Not necessarily.

A lot of the ancient masters spend years living a relative poor life. Eckhart Tolle spend 2 years on a bench.

The thing is, your coming from a viewpoint;
They need to save me, they need to bring me wisdom, joy and meaning.

You will only find that within yourself. Nobody can give it to you.

[torilink]

I read somewhere once and I now agree that it only takes one "enlightened" person to save the entire world - you are the ONE.

[Trezker]

Originally Posted by torilink

I read somewhere once and I now agree that it only takes one "enlightened" person to save the entire world - you are the ONE.

Yeah! So get to work! chop chop!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Erock

How many enlightened people do you think are alive today?

All of us. We just don't all realize it yet.

[Fullcrum]

People are too serious, haha.

[Freelancer]

Originally Posted by Fullcrum

People are too serious, haha.

lol thanks for the reminder.

[ScottJMurray]

I don't know if they would fade into the background like you said. I follow the traditional Buddhist definition of enlightenment, meaning that it is like "God flowing through a person." This person is so filled to the brim with compassion and spiritual energy, completely without a self, that all they would spend there time doing would be trying to get the message out to others. These people are noticed.

[blackisgray]

Originally Posted by Angela

All of us. We just don't all realize it yet.

I agree with this. Maybe you mean how many people have fully tapped into this Enlightenment. I feel there's a scale of how connected we are to Source, and it's so personal that it's really hard, maybe even impossible, to label someone as Enlightened. We'd all agree, I think, that the Dalai Lama is enlightened, but we can't really judge that.

[Erock]

I guess I didn't phrase my question right, and I guess for someone to answer it they would have to agree with my view of enlightenment haha.

Okay, question rephrase: How many people do you think are enlightened in the sense that they have completely dis-identified with the body and their mind is infinitely silent? This question is assuming you believe, as I do, that this is possible.

Erock

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Erock

I guess I didn't phrase my question right, and I guess for someone to answer it they would have to agree with my view of enlightenment haha.

Okay, question rephrase: How many people do you think are enlightened in the sense that they have completely dis-identified with the body and their mind is infinitely silent? This question is assuming you believe, as I do, that this is possible.

Erock

Why would they do that? You do that when you are dead.

[Freelancer]

Originally Posted by Erock

I guess I didn't phrase my question right, and I guess for someone to answer it they would have to agree with my view of enlightenment haha.

Okay, question rephrase: How many people do you think are enlightened in the sense that they have completely dis-identified with the body and their mind is infinitely silent? This question is assuming you believe, as I do, that this is possible.

Erock

Dis-identified with the body would mean your NUTS not enlightened.

Your body is a part of you just as much as God/The source/Higher self/The now is a part of you (and the mind, and the tree's, and the bunny, and the lollipop)

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Erock

I guess I didn't phrase my question right, and I guess for someone to answer it they would have to agree with my view of enlightenment haha.

Okay, question rephrase: How many people do you think are enlightened in the sense that they have completely dis-identified with the body and their mind is infinitely silent? This question is assuming you believe, as I do, that this is possible.

Erock

I would say that kind of enlightenment would be too detached and not much of a good thing. Go to the looney bins to see those poor souls, so detached. Many monks realize that they have to return to the real world too, even if they have meditated a lot and seen the light and such. Also, some get enlighted and turn it into being a guru and putting on airs - which is an other difficulty with this label. As another poster here said, it's a way to be special when spirituality or wholeness is supposed to remove heirachies. In other words enlightened ones are more grounded and less apt to draw attention to themselves directly.

I like to think my spirit is enlightened, as everybody's is. Then we are stuck in ego land and forget that part of us actually is enlightened all the time.

[Savage]

The answer to the original question can only be one or zero.

[Rosie]

Steve,

Your answer is very intriguing, yet vague. Care to explain in more detail?

[torilink]

either you are "Enlightened" or not.

One or zero.

[munish]

Enlightenment - The highest level of human consciousness, where humanity blends with divinity. Extremely rare. The level of Krishna, Buddha, and Jesus. Even just thinking about people at this level can raise your consciousness.

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...consciousness/

[Angela]

Originally Posted by torilink

either you are "Enlightened" or not.

One or zero.

I heard that a little differently. Like: we're all in this together, we're all one consciousness. Either we're all enlightened, or none of us are.

[Rosie]

It would be interesting to see if Steve's answer correlates with yours.

[torilink]

Originally Posted by Angela

I heard that a little differently. Like: we're all in this together, we're all one consciousness. Either we're all enlightened, or none of us are.

yes there is only one - thus one or zero

[SuperStar]

I recently learned that there are 3 historical views in the Indian tradition about this.

1. The Vedas say that you climb the ladder to enlightenment and then you kick it down. As someone said, you just sort of disappear because you're way beyond the mundane "illusory" world the rest of us are in. This is the ascetic in the cave.

2. Advaita Vedanta introduced the concept that you climb the ladder to the top, then you come back down to help show others how to get up there. This is also the "boddhisattva" in buddhism.

3. The Tantras introduced the idea that enlightenment is not a ladder, sideways... it's a balance. All of it is available at all times. You don't have to climb up to it, you just have to remember it, and it can happen spontaneously. But, it's also the concept that enlightenment is not a fixed point. If it was, you'd get there and then 'go back to sleep' because you 'got there.' So enlightenment is a process, not an endpoint.

I like the 3rd one the best. It's the most evolved idea I think. It reminds me of a quote from Steve P where he wrote: "Fulfillment will never come from a fixed point on your path, it always comes from motion, progress on the path." That is enlightenment.

So in my opinion, the answer is BOTH one and zero.

[Calisto]

Yes the answer is zero. We are spiritual beings having an earthly experience. We may become aware and enlightened in the normal sense, but we do not reach ultimate enlightenment in this existence. Ultimate enlightenment is what we are aiming for but not as humans. We chose rebirth or release. We chose to come back again and again for all life's lessons which allow us to be released on a higher spiritual dimension. Even there we do not have enlightenment. Enlightenment is something we continue to reach for.

[Erock]

Agh. I hate you guys but I love you guys. I definitely see the error in my question. For those that are curious, this is where it originated from:

Page 115, I Am That:

Questioner: Still there must be some way of making out who has realized and who has not. If one is indistinguishable from the other, of what use is he?

Maharj: He who knows himself has no doubts about it. Nor does he care whether others recognize his state or not. Rare is the realized man who discloses his realization and fortunate are those who have met him, for he does it for their abiding welfare.

I got from this that there are a lot realized men who don't disclose their state or haven't met anybody who cared. This is why I got to wondering how many there are.

Erock

[Rosie]

I think he was referring to his subjective reality - only one person can be enlightened.

[Terumoto]

Originally Posted by Rosie

Steve,

Your answer is very intriguing, yet vague. Care to explain in more detail?

I think what he might mean is either "everybody" is enlightened, or nobody is enlightened.

In most belief system that talk about enlightenment, you are already innately enlightened. Enlightenment is equated with being your true self, which it is impossible not to be. It isn't gaining some spiritual attainment, it's merely realizing that there's nothing to attain. It's the reasoning behind that Buddhist principle where it says if you try to go towards Nirvana you will get further away from it.

Ironically, people have called those who realize that truth "enlightened." Which is why "enlightened" people, when approached about it, shrug it off and say they're nothing special.

But not seeing that truth doesn't mean you aren't enlightened, because in everything that you do, you are always your "true" self, whether you know it or not. Nobody is better or worse than anyone else, because every perception is relative.

There is no enlightened or not enlightened. So the answer to "how many enlightened people are there?" is either one or zero, depending on how you choose to describe it. I don't think the "1" Steve was talking about is a single individual, it's all that there is, the universe, everything that exists and doesn't exist.

1 = Everybody is enlightened, because it's impossible not to be.
0 = Nobody is enlightened, because "enlightenment" doesn't exist, in the sense that there is no difference between being enlightened or unenlightened.

But I'm just spouting crap, I don't really know for sure what Steve meant.