How many enlightened people are there?

[flux]

Awareness has little to do with the quality of the choice???

You must be kidding. If my child wanted to place his hand on a hot stove, he lacks awareness of the dangers involved in this choice. With a little more experience he will surely have more awareness and make a different - with more quality - choice!

Until such time, he will rely upon another's awareness to keep him out of danger.

Awareness surely has EVERYTHING to do with the quality of choice, my friend.

The child in your scenario is acting on emotion and curiosity. The importance here isn't their awareness of the inherent dangers, but of the fact that they even have a choice in the first place. Quality of awareness is negligible at this stage.

[flux]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

On the other hand, I agree with you, in that awareness (consciousness) provides us with the tools to know a choice is even available in the first instance.

I would also agree with you that, burning your hand on the stove can be a wonderful catalyst to awareness

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by flux

The child in your scenario is acting on emotion and curiosity. The importance here isn't their awareness of the inherent dangers, but of the fact that they even have a choice in the first place. Quality of awareness is negligible at this stage.

Ok, but then what do you have to say about anyone (let's hope it isn't a child) who places his hand on the hot stove in a fashion 'inadvertant'? He was simply walking by and lost his balance for a moment and placed his hand right there - in the wrong spot, to stop from toppling over?

He has had for years a decent awareness of the dangers of an active hotplate, yet committed to a very similar action of choice as the child without awareness. Where is enlightenment in this scenario?

[flux]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

Ok, but then what do you have to say about anyone (let's hope it isn't a child) who places his hand on the hot stove in a fashion 'inadvertant'? He was simply walking by and lost his balance for a moment and placed his hand right there - in the wrong spot, to stop from toppling over?

He has had for years a decent awareness of the dangers of an active hotplate, yet committed to a very similar action of choice as the child without awareness. Where is enlightenment in this scenario?

Have you ever seen someone try to catch a hot iron, simply to stop it from falling?

The mistaken quick judgement of this situation does not mean they lack the awareness.

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by flux

Have you ever seen someone try to catch a hot iron, simply to stop it from falling?

The mistaken quick judgement of this situation does not mean they lack the awareness.

No, fortunately I've never witnessed such an event - thankfully.

So in a snap decision/choice to action, we make an error in judgement, yet awareness (or consciousness) is still in play, but that was not the question - where be enlightenment in this scenario?

[flux]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

...where be enlightenment in this scenario?

What is the circumference of an expanding circle?

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by flux

What is the circumference of an expanding circle?

Are you aware (in real life) of an expanding circle, and if so - why do you require an awareness of it's circumference?

Or perhaps this discussion has become a little nebulous, esoteric, even perhaps egoistic? In which case, I've more concrete concerns to keep me occupied for the time being.

[flux]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

No, fortunately I've never witnessed such an event - thankfully.

So in a snap decision/choice to action, we make an error in judgement, yet awareness (or consciousness) is still in play, but that was not the question - where be enlightenment in this scenario?

How did this individual lose their balance in the first place? They must have had a lot on their mind...

[flux]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

Are you aware (in real life) of an expanding circle, and if so - why do you require an awareness of it's circumference?

Or perhaps this discussion has become a little nebulous, esoteric, even perhaps egoistic? In which case, I've more concrete concerns to keep me occupied for the time being.

Did I insult you? I've had only enjoyment with this conversation.

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by flux

How did this individual lose their balance in the first place? They must have had a lot on their mind...

Dear Flux, do you think we have an intention towards pertinence remaining?

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by flux

Did I insult you? I've had only enjoyment with this conversation.

No you have not insulted me to any degree. I've also enjoyed the discussion, however nebulous concepts such as the details re. expanding circles might be entertaining to the ego, yet it falls a little short of the essence of our discussion to this point - of defining our reality - our awareness, which I equate to our consciousness.

This, my dear flux is about reality, which I will explore with you until well after the cows come home, yet entertainment simply for the sake of entertainment is not part of my repertoire, unless I've nothing better to do - which certainly is NOT the case right now.

Apologies if I come across as something of a killjoy, but I'm being as real as possible with you right now.

[flux]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

Dear Flux, do you think we have an intention towards pertinence remaining?

Are you saying my answer isn't clear? I wish you would just say so if that's the case...I'm not attempting to be cryptic.

You asked where the enlightenment was. I applied the question to the hot stove scenario.

The answer lies in why the individual lost their balance in the first place. You will not loose your balance if you are fully present. It is no coincidence that "klutziness" is often linked to individuals who let their emotions run their lives.

To apply the question to the second scenario; there would be no tension, because there would be no resistance to the hot iron's downward trajectory. No big deal.

[flux]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

No you have not insulted me to any degree. I've also enjoyed the discussion, however nebulous concepts such as the details re. expanding circles might be entertaining to the ego, yet it falls a little short of the essence of our discussion to this point - of defining our reality - our awareness, which I equate to our consciousness.

This, my dear flux is about reality, which I will explore with you until well after the cows come home, yet entertainment simply for the sake of entertainment is not part of my repertoire, unless I've nothing better to do - which certainly is NOT the case right now.

Apologies if I come across as something of a killjoy, but I'm being as real as possible with you right now.

Duly noted, and I'll attempt to keep all colorful, probing questions away from this discussion. It was simply an attempt to understand your intended significance of the question.

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by flux

Are you saying my answer isn't clear? I wish you would just say so if that's the case...I'm not attempting to be cryptic.

You asked where the enlightenment was. I applied the question to the hot stove scenario.

The answer lies in why the individual lost their balance in the first place. You will not loose your balance if you are fully present. It is no coincidence that "klutziness" is often linked to individuals who let their emotions run their lives.

Bravo! Indeed an honourable, enlightened response. Now please - what do you propose is the solution to such a problem with regards our awareness/consciousness?

I mean - when we let our emotions run our lives is perhaps the problem, so what would you expect to be the solution?

[Apopohis Reject]

Well my dear new friend flux, it would appear that we may have about run the race for today. As indicated, I've enjoyed the discussion very much and certainly hope to continue it - with you - real soon. However I've many things to which I must attend, and as it would seem you are taking your time in contemplation of the question, I guess I'd best be getting about those duties post haste.

BTW, before I go - the answer to my question is not nearly as complicated, wondrous as it may appear, yet it's well worth a little investigation to get to the root af the issue - for us all.

Take care now, my friend.

[vgtvijay]

There are n number of enlightened people and once they attain that stage they go on silence mode because it is not necessary to stand in between the crowd and boast about self.

Every person who is inclined towards achieving a common objective will be united some where or other, let us take this forum for an example.

bye.

Vijay

[Cantando]

When you get into the nitty-gritty of Zen, there are no enlightened beings.

There is no differentiation between the Buddha and sentient beings.

There is just the one Buddha Mind.

[Sekret Weapon]

More Information on Enlightenment,


Don't put so much emphasis on removing or ditching Ego.


INSTEAD



Put your focus on removing the CLOAK from your consciousness, do this and the ego will dissapate naturally.


You can ditch the cloak that govenors our consciousness.


It is nearly impossible to reach the state of enlightenment so I would recommend using chemistry to suppliment your other spiritual practices.

I am not into drugs but I am into effective and efficient methods. ANd DMT is so effective that it is synonomous with "Starting at the Finish Line".