Point of suffering?

[sunj]

I've been thinking and reading about this. I've heard different meanings of "suffering" and the causes of it. The most common one is "suffering is when you do not like your present situation and you are wanting to change it".

WHT!? I don't get it. Then what's the point of suffering, why get into that state in the first place? This confuses the hell out of me every time I read it. Some masters say that you shouldn't try to change it and just accept it ("Acceptance" as it is called). How can you just accept it??? What does accepting really do? If it gets you out of it then isn't that going back to the definition of suffering, and in-turn keeping you in it?

These questions just go in an infinite loop. If you want to end suffering, but the act itself keeps you in it, then why the hell did you enter it in the first place? No one is born into suffering. No baby comes out of the womb already in a state of suffering, so it has to be a state that someone enters. And the fact that you can enter it means that you can exit it...

Someone please explain.

[PokerEnthusiast]

"It is only after we've lost everything that we are free to do anything."

Just let go. Become lost in oblivion. Dark and silent and complete. You will find freedom. Losing all hope is freedom.

[Terumoto]

There's no point to it. It is pointless. Now, when you try to give it a point, then you're going to run into a few problems. lol.

[TheFlyingMan]

resistance to whatever is happening is causing your suffering. Let's say your car breaks down, and your head is going, "No! This shouldn't be happening!" The stronger that voice in your head is, the more you suffer.

And the paradox is when you accept it, then it doesn't cause suffering anymore.
How to bring The Peace of Non-Resistance into your life now » Personal Development - The Urban Monk

Hope it helps

[Billy]

I understand your problem completely, because if we are suffering and it is so unpleasant in any form then why the hell did we enter it in the first place? It cannot be a conscious action, if I am diagnosed with cancer and my treatment is intense chemotherapy which involves much suffering and pain then why did I enter it in the first place since I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy? There is no conscious involvement in these descisions so it can not be me making them unless I am of an extremely self harming personality. These supposedly wise people say that we must accept suffering in order to grow but I say that we must endure suffering in order to grow. There is a big destinction between the two and anyone who believes otherwise is deluding themselves.

[Old Soul]

I believe personal suffering is about personal growth,

every time i go through it, I come out of it enlightened and have a new poem :-)

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by sunj

I've been thinking and reading about this. I've heard different meanings of "suffering" and the causes of it. The most common one is "suffering is when you do not like your present situation and you are wanting to change it".

WHT!? I don't get it. Then what's the point of suffering, why get into that state in the first place? This confuses the hell out of me every time I read it. Some masters say that you shouldn't try to change it and just accept it ("Acceptance" as it is called). How can you just accept it??? What does accepting really do? If it gets you out of it then isn't that going back to the definition of suffering, and in-turn keeping you in it?

These questions just go in an infinite loop. If you want to end suffering, but the act itself keeps you in it, then why the hell did you enter it in the first place? No one is born into suffering. No baby comes out of the womb already in a state of suffering, so it has to be a state that someone enters. And the fact that you can enter it means that you can exit it...

Someone please explain.

We all suffer at times in our lives - whether it just a general dissatisfaction with life, or a more accute physical, mental, emotional or spiritual pain.
A lot of it we bring upon ourselves through having obssessive, worldly attachments to things, money, people, our bodies etc, thinking that we can achieve some lasting happiness there. But when we lose these things, or things don't go our way, we suffer.
The trick is not to become too attached and to learn how to transcend the pain.

When we realize that attachment is not the right path, we also suffer, by going through a spiritual purging process. An analogy might be looking up at the sun for too long - it hurts our eyes. The bright light of the spirit illuminates and reveals those dark, negative areas deep inside ourselves, and as we become conscious of them, and begin to release them, suffering ensues. Some patience and perseverance is then called for.

[Amanda Norris]

I don't think I'm very qualified to talk about suffering, as I have led a very pleasant life up to this point and haven't had to go through many trials. But like everyone, I have experienced suffering to some degree.

My current understanding of the whole idea of transcending suffering through acceptance comes down to how much importance you place on this physical life. If this life is all there is, and your physical body is who you are, then any trials or suffering you experience is going to make you feel bad.

But what if you believed instead that this life is just a dream or a game? What if your identity isn't actually that of the human being whose body you have? What if you are actually the being that is having the dream? When you have a bad dream, does it cause you suffering? Unless it's really horrific, you can just forget about it. It doesn't matter, it was just a dream. You can even laugh about it. If you start thinking about this life as a dream, and identify yourself with the dreamer instead of a dream character, then suffering seems to melt away. Any trials you go through seem very trivial.

And if you think that every experience you have is for the enjoyment of the dreamer, then you can even begin to enjoy your suffering. Do you ever play a video game, and when your character dies, you laugh? I do every time. Because games are fun, even when you aren't winning. Well, life is just a game, and you can have fun even if you aren't winning.

[ArthurHung]

Suffering, as I see it now, is no different from feeling bad. Which from my super optimistic perspective, is simply a physical manifestation from my body & mind letting me know what I don't like, helping and leading me towards what I do like. And knowing what you do like helps lead you to a life of appreciation and happiness, IF, you are willing to take action.

For example (and this happened this morning): If I enjoy waking up extremely early and being super productive during the first four hours with pure positive energy, someone who interrupts my flow while I'm eating breakfast with some meaningless criticisms lets me know how much I value that positive momentum to be uninterrupted.

So what I'll do tomorrow (and this might not work out perfectly, then I would just create another way of optimizing my mornings), is simply exercise for half an hour, eat breakfast really quickly and/or wake up even earlier; after doing these things I'll start journaling/blogging/posting here/meditating/working on my website/reading a book/more exercise in a place where potentially negative people are not around.

I figure that suffering, at low levels of awareness, inevitably breeds negative feelings towards others. But when we react to our own suffering with negative energy towards ourselves and others, we go through a process of learning what it feels like to be hurt. As we mature, we realize that it was only by knowing what it feels like to be hurt that allows us to be truly compassionate and kind towards others. Negativity from others then becomes a constant source of appreciation for the reason mentioned in the first paragraph and also for the fact that it allows us to be grateful for the fact that we had overcome that low level of awareness.

[sunj]

Well if we compare life to dreams then we have: waking up from a dream is the equivalent of death. Knowing that you are dreaming is the equivalent of realizing that you are not the body/character in the dream. And each dream you have is compared to a life that you live.

Now, if you're having a nightmare you can just wake up, but in life that is death. Killing yourself doesn't help you, you would rather change it and continue living (dreaming). So let's say in the nightmare, you work it out and change the nightmare into the best dream you can imagine. That may take a crap load of time. Third option is, you realize you are dreaming (you realize that you are not the character) and instantly change it. This is like the 2nd option, but it's an instant change from nightmare to dream. (By instant I mean within 2 weeks).

The most favorable option is #3. But even the 3rd option takes time to internally realize and apply it. I am externally realizing it now, that I know I'm not this body, and that this life is just another dream. But if I now try to change it, it's not instant, so it's just on the surface I know that. Then option #3 is just another option #2.

To take it further, you choose option #3, and after several years, you develop it internally and you are now able to change it instantly. What happens in the next dream? You have to go through the same things again if it's a nightmare? In that case option #1 seems better. Instead of taking all that time to change a nightmare into a dream, you can just wake up. When you're ready to dream again you can go back to sleep. It's a nightmare again? Wake up and go back to sleep.

Even this brings up another complication. If you've read "Home With God: In a Life that Never Ends", you come to learn that if you off yourself because you can't find the way out, in your next life you will be presented the same situation, and if you off yourself again you will be presented the same situation. It keeps on going until you resolve it. This can turn into a damn loop.

Why can't you just realize you are dreaming and change it instantly without going through "internalizing" it?

[absvan]

Suffering is the essence of life - Buddah.

Why so, because if you are living, then you have desires and if you are attached to the desire then you are attached to the outcome. So you are expecting the outcome rather than what is in the present always.

The freedom is detachment. Detachment from a desire will free you because then you are ready to accept what is now - whether your desire has been fulfilled or not. When masters talk about acceptance, what they mean is to accept what is now rather than waiting for the moment when your desires come true.

HTH

[Amanda Norris]

Originally Posted by sunj

Now, if you're having a nightmare you can just wake up, but in life that is death. Killing yourself doesn't help you, you would rather change it and continue living (dreaming). So let's say in the nightmare, you work it out and change the nightmare into the best dream you can imagine. That may take a crap load of time. Third option is, you realize you are dreaming (you realize that you are not the character) and instantly change it. This is like the 2nd option, but it's an instant change from nightmare to dream. (By instant I mean within 2 weeks).

A fourth option is to not try and change the nightmare into a better dream. Just continue experiencing the nightmare as it is, but by realizing that it is only a dream, it loses the power to cause you suffering. You have control over your own feelings. You can choose to enjoy the experience of the nightmare. People watch scary movies and ride roller coasters for the thrill of the experience.

See Steve's post on this topic:
The Joy of Sadness

[Billy]

Originally Posted by Amanda Norris

A fourth option is to not try and change the nightmare into a better dream. Just continue experiencing the nightmare as it is, but by realizing that it is only a dream, it loses the power to cause you suffering. You have control over your own feelings. You can choose to enjoy the experience of the nightmare. People watch scary movies and ride roller coasters for the thrill of the experience.

See Steve's post on this topic:
The Joy of Sadness

But another side to that is suffering pain, I have read about a few cases of wakefull anesthesia, where a person wakes from the anasthesia in an operating theatre usually at the beginning of the procedure but because they have been given a muscle relaxant they cannot give any sign that they are concious and fully aware of the surgeon making his incisions. One woman who spoke about her case said that she was trapped in her body and that it was a world of agony Buddha may have an answer for the pain that these persons endured but I don't think that it would have alleviated their suffering one whit.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by TheFlyingMan

resistance to whatever is happening is causing your suffering. Let's say your car breaks down, and your head is going, "No! This shouldn't be happening!" The stronger that voice in your head is, the more you suffer.

And the paradox is when you accept it, then it doesn't cause suffering anymore.
How to bring The Peace of Non-Resistance into your life now » Personal Development - The Urban Monk

Hope it helps

^^^ What he said.

[Anagogy]

Yes. Suffering exists for a reason. When you place you hand on a hot stove it hurts. And the reason it hurts is because the heat from the stove is detrimental to the well being of your hand. All forms of suffering are telling you that you are doing something contrary to the nature of your well being. Also, negativity exists to highlight or exalt the positive. You can't know relief if there is nothing to be relieved from. One must be cold to comprehend warmth, be starving to appreciate food, and be a child to see the value of the parent. Duality and contrast allowed our consciousness to know something that was previously unknowable. It added a new dimension of possibility.