Let's clear up a couple misconceptions.

[mlbr23]

Maybe what you're trying to "get" at is that we should do away with labels of thins that are essentially indescribable and ineffable?

Even the word 'indescribable' and 'ineffable' can't approach to do justice to these entities?

That ultimately even the wisest of sages actually know absolutely nothing at all?

That we shouldn't completely believe or deify anyone who claims to have attained 'enlightenment' or had experiences becoming one with the universe?

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Terumoto

Why?

Because using the term "the universe manifested it for me" takes away your power.

Originally Posted by Terumoto

And what will never manifest? Me?

No not you, but the things you're trying to manifest.

[absvan]

IFT, havent seen you for a long time. Where have you been?

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by mlbr23

Maybe what you're trying to "get" at is that we should do away with labels of thins that are essentially indescribable and ineffable?

Well no......Actually what I'm trying to say is the labels we use are dis empowering.

Originally Posted by mlbr23

That ultimately even the wisest of sages actually know absolutely nothing at all?

My opinion is the wisest sages do know.

Originally Posted by mlbr23

That we shouldn't completely believe or deify anyone who claims to have attained 'enlightenment' or had experiences becoming one with the universe?

Right. Question that person and come to your own conclusions.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by absvan

IFT, havent seen you for a long time. Where have you been?

Hi absvan !

I guess I've been off contemplating.

[torilink]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

But here's the thing. You're conceptualizing wanting to be "one with god' is holding you back.

Do you see what I mean?

here is the thing - he's talking about an Ego becoming one with God yet remaining an individual....

yet we are God, becoming an ego to have this experience. When the experience is done, it is done - unless I choose to do it again.

[Terumoto]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

Because using the term "the universe manifested it for me" takes away your power.



No not you, but the things you're trying to manifest.

Honestly, what are you talking about...

You come on here, sort of trying to tell people something, and everybody else here is trying to tell everyone something.

Just come out with it, what are you trying to say?

I wish I could just poke you until you laugh. Mr. Serious with your empowerment and all that. rofl. Come on.

[Spiritual]

infinitethoughts, I'm sorry to tell you, but you're going around this the wrong way....

I bet you read some books about ego, enlightenment and such, that's cool if you got your insights. But you have to understand most people on these boards aren't busy with that part of spirituality, or maybe some are but aren't responding right now.

You can't just bump in here and shout out some short sentences that make sense to YOU, and then expect everyone to be converted to your belief system.

What you are talking about, if I'm relating properly, is the ego trying to put everything into concepts. But for this realization, you also need the realization that you are not your brains or thoughts.

So when we say, One with God, we are assuming we are not already one with god, which we are ofcourse, how can we not be part of everything there is?
Secondly you talk about the universe, our mind puts it outside us, but since we are part of "all that is", we are also the universe, and it's not something detached from us.

Your point it is, If I'm relating properly again, that we are part of everything, and that there is nothing outside of us like a universe, god or whatever who can do anything.

[Anagogy]

Its kind of funny how most everyone is out there trying to explain their profound insight, but ultimately when you get right down to it, the objections between viewpoints is more often than not a matter of semantics -- distortions wrought by the vagueries of language and words. Unfortunately, these symbols cannot house the thoughts we wish to give, only represent them.

Having said that, I think Spiritual put it very succinctly.

[Spiritual]

As they say, "Words are the finger pointing to the moon, but they are not the Moon".

Goes for everything where words are being used, since use of words means conceptualization, which is duality, which is not Truth.

That's why it is, in my humble opinion, so foolish to take texts like the Bible and Quran so literally, especially when the most important people interpreting these texts, don't know Truth or the real meaning behind them.

[schola]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

Just as you have your own universe. Infinity's a 'big' place. Room for everyone.

Ha. Good point. This is going on my list of favorite quotes; which doesn't actually exist. But that's a good quote.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Spiritual

I bet you read some books about ego, enlightenment and such, that's cool if you got your insights. But you have to understand most people on these boards aren't busy with that part of spirituality, or maybe some are but aren't responding right now.

Well come to think of it, I did read a book called "Ego, enlightenment and such".

Originally Posted by Spiritual

You can't just bump in here and shout out some short sentences that make sense to YOU, and then expect everyone to be converted to your belief system.

Why not? Makes for interesting discussion, don't you think? Convert people?
No. What I ask is for people to think it over and take it apart. There's a reason I use short sentences. Get's to the point.

Originally Posted by Spiritual

What you are talking about, if I'm relating properly, is the ego trying to put everything into concepts. But for this realization, you also need the realization that you are not your brains or thoughts.

No such thing as the "ego". Using this term just creates more artificial boundaries.
All there is, is You in your infinite universe. There is no limited physical body with a limited physical universe. It's just a trick you're playing on yourself.

Originally Posted by Spiritual

Your point it is, If I'm relating properly again, that we are part of everything, and that there is nothing outside of us like a universe, god or whatever who can do anything.

Very Nicely put.

[Spiritual]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

Why not? Makes for interesting discussion, don't you think? Convert people?
No. What I ask is for people to think it over and take it apart. There's a reason I use short sentences. Get's to the point.

It would make an interesting discussion if people would know what the discussion is about. Coming in and talking about "The One", while you are having connotations others don't share and vice versa isn't going to get a discussion. The difference of connotations is that makes people war these days about a teddybear called muhammed.

If you want a proper discussion first get YOUR definitions straight (which you hadn't in the first place, no offense) and then start the discussion so people actually know what you're talking about, so they can relate to what you're saying.

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

No such thing as the "ego". Using this term just creates more artificial boundaries.
All there is, is You in your infinite universe. There is no limited physical body with a limited physical universe. It's just a trick you're playing on yourself.

The fact that the ego is still part of "all there is", thus part of everything we are, doesn't mean that it should not be something we can discover in ourselves and use it to break free from it. And who says having an ego equals limitation in my infinite universe? Do you know me that well that you know whether something limits me, or any other?
I guess so, since we are both the same......


As I said before, you have thought about this for a while and you got your insights. But it isn't going to work to pop in here and start blurring out YOUR insights and expect others to be in awe and go like "Wow you're right! That's it!"

Who says your insights are the Truth? Who says your insights are the right ones for others? It may be amazing in your universe, but it may be very different in others'.

If you really want a indepth discussion, start talking about what every definition like "The One", "The Universe", and whatever else means for you personally. And then start talking about your insights and what you have found to be true and what not.


And btw, was the book any good? Something Steve should recommend?

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Spiritual

It would make an interesting discussion if people would know what the discussion is about. Coming in and talking about "The One", while you are having connotations others don't share and vice versa isn't going to get a discussion.

As the discussion progressed I did.

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

Oh Ok. How about "one with god".

Originally Posted by Spiritual

But it isn't going to work to pop in here and start blurring out YOUR insights and expect others to be in awe and go like "Wow you're right! That's it!"

I'm not looking for "awe-ness". Looking for an interesting discussion. But if you think I am, so be it.

Originally Posted by Spiritual

Who says your insights are the Truth? Who says your insights are the right ones for others? It may be amazing in your universe, but it may be very different in others'.

Right. As I said earlier, let's talk about it........

Originally Posted by Spiritual

If you really want a indepth discussion, start talking about what every definition like "The One", "The Universe", and whatever else means for you personally. And then start talking about your insights and what you have found to be true and what not.

Sigh. I am talking about my insights, Spiritual. I'm doing it my way, not yours.

Originally Posted by Spiritual

And btw, was the book any good? Something Steve should recommend?

Lol......

[wolfgang]

The ego gets a bashing too much. I don't think our ego is the bad thing that is in our way to feeling one with everything. There are parts of the ego that are bad - all the addictive parts we could do without. But the ego that defines a boundary is needed too. We shouldn't be thinking to renounce all of the ego to then become enlightened - that kind of enlightenment is called going nuts. You will not be grounded and have a very hard time communicating what it is you are noticing while merging with all that is. It has to be in addition to our individuality that being one with everything exists, otherwise there is no identity to experience being one with everything.

[Spiritual]

The ego is also part of the perceived, it is not who or what we are. But if we can understand what the activities of the ego is, we can then recognize where our attention is at and refocus it to emptiness or wherever you want to have it.

So to be short, no indeed the ego is not "bad", it's amazing. Yet it can also give us quite some suffering we don't need. By recognizing what it's nature is we can switch our identity.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

The ego gets a bashing too much. I don't think our ego is the bad thing that is in our way to feeling one with everything. There are parts of the ego that are bad - all the addictive parts we could do without. But the ego that defines a boundary is needed too. We shouldn't be thinking to renounce all of the ego to then become enlightened - that kind of enlightenment is called going nuts. You will not be grounded and have a very hard time communicating what it is you are noticing while merging with all that is. It has to be in addition to our individuality that being one with everything exists, otherwise there is no identity to experience being one with everything.

Nicely put.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Spiritual

The ego is also part of the perceived, it is not who or what we are. But if we can understand what the activities of the ego is, we can then recognize where our attention is at and refocus it to emptiness or wherever you want to have it.

So to be short, no indeed the ego is not "bad", it's amazing. Yet it can also give us quite some suffering we don't need. By recognizing what it's nature is we can switch our identity.

I agree with that.

[dangerlarson]

I invite everyone to read this thread again and explain to me why I didn't waste 5 minutes of my life reading this

[Billy]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

First. Everywhere I go on the net, I keep reading "The One".



Why?
Simple.... cause you're perpetuating the limited thought that "The Universe" is outside you.

If you persist on entertaining "infinitethoughts" then you shall never reach enlightenment, since "oneness" is a state of being and not a state of infinite thoughts.