Witchcraft and Magic(k)?

[Keith]

I'm surprised that I haven't seen any posts regarding Witchcraft/spells/magic(k) in these forums.

From my limited knowledge, spells seem to be one way of approaching the LoA and developing mental focus/skills.

Do we just not have anyone here who follows these spiritual (and personal development?) paths?

[Adam]

I think the broom closet door is just stuck... They'll come out, though. Give them time.

[DmitryDavydov]

The problem is that there's been so many fakes, like Alister Crowley (I think I misspelled this last name), it's hard to say if this stuff is even real.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by DmitryDavydov

The problem is that there's been so many fakes, like Alister Crowley (I think I misspelled this last name), it's hard to say if this stuff is even real.

Actually you misspelt his first name (Aleister).

I'm not sure what makes you think he was a fake. He was certainly a little... dramatic, but he was also genuinely a magic(k)ian in the western tradition.

As to whether it's real, well, many people really perform spells and rituals, and they really believe in them.

Proving that they actually work, OTOH, suffers the same sorts of problems as proving the Law of Attraction ; people won't see it if they don't want to, and the results can be dismissed as 'mere chance' (not that there's anything 'mere' about chance!).

[Richful]

So is this the "Occultist here?" thread to match the "Christians here"?
I confess I might be one of those people . Please bear in mind I use the term Occult for what it means; Hidden. Not devil worship or sacrifices and other such nonsense. Most of what is on this forum could be called occult.

[Lonewolf]

Much of what used to be termed magick has now been given scientific or psychological terminology. For example, what is the difference between casting a spell, hypnotising someone, or creating a physical anchor to trigger certain emotional responses? It is the same thing.
Also, many forms of demon possession are now seen as mental illnesses, the exorcism now being a series of drugs (modern potions), and talking with a therapist, psychologist or whatever (modern witchdoctors).
Also, the placebo effect is another example of a really mysterious process that used to be employed by sorcerers "casting the bone" or "laying a curse".

So, ask me if I believe in magick, and I would say absolutely, but I might have a rational explanation for what is going on.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Richful

So is this the "Occultist here?" thread to match the "Christians here"?

Hmm, maybe. I hadn't thought about it ; it just seemed like an odd omission.

My understanding of magic(k) (that which hasn't already been absorbed into science ; good point, Lonewolf) is that it is the raising of energy through ritual, investing that energy with intent, and sending that energy into the universe to manifest a result.

Now, obviously there's a commonality with the Intention Manifestation model (specifically, the manifesting of intent ).

I wonder what additional effect the ritual and energy raising have ; does it make the manifestation more effective? If so, why? Is it because of something inherent in the process, or does it 'just' serve as a mental tool/crutch for the magickian/witch?

Like I say, there seem to be strong commonalities, and I'm surprised they haven't been explored yet.

[Richful]

Originally Posted by Keith

I wonder what additional effect the ritual and energy raising have ; does it make the manifestation more effective? If so, why? Is it because of something inherent in the process, or does it 'just' serve as a mental tool/crutch for the magickian/witch?

Like I say, there seem to be strong commonalities, and I'm surprised they haven't been explored yet.

I am not an expert. I have a rudimentary technical knowledge, lets say I've studied Occult 101 and 102 I see many similarities and some differences.
There are different systems of magic(k or not to k?), many are basically Golden Dawn material rebadged in their own terms. Golden Dawn was primarily Cabbalah , Tarot, Colour therapy and enochian magic, with a strong emphasis on ritual.
Ritual is all about conciousness. Energy, vibration, "tuning in", it's all a way of saying conciousness. Ritual is bringing your attention to a from of conciousness, usually through symbols.

[Andrew Russell]

My latest theory on Witchcraft (and such) is that it could be very easily described as "Personal Development Jr".

Last time I checked, much of the neo-pagan writing out there is very similar to what Steve writes (indeed - LoA/IM in particular), with some bonus rituals and such to get you in the mood.

A bit less on "how to become an early riser" and "how to make money without having a job", though

I say "Personal Development Jr" because, that stuff seems to be attractive to teens (it was to me), and is probably their first exposure to the idea that, hey, personal growth is something worth pursuing.

[Adam]

In my experience, ritual is extremely helpful in IM/LoA. I think I hinted at it before in a thread on Intentions where I asked people about the phrases that they include with their Intentions.

Does it help because that's the way the LoA works? I don't think so, but I could be wrong. I think it helps (and it does help tremendously) because of the way the human brain works.

Ritual has two aspects, one seen by the initiates, and one seen by people in the higher degrees. When an initiate sees a ritual, she sees the actions and the symbolism very clearly, after all, she had just been studying that very thing. When a person who has at least their first degree sees a ritual, though, (hopefully) they start to participate in the ritual from habit, which leaves the body occupied while the mind can work on other things, such as building and focusing energy (which was where I shined) or forming imagery specific to the ritual being formed. Many of us who have worked with IM/LoA know that having clear imagery or a strong emotion are very useful in manifesting, and a ritual is just a tool to bring your mind in tune with what is most effective.

There may be more to it, but I haven't made it past the first degree, and I'm not certain that I will. Ask an Elder, and maybe they'll tell you.

Irregardless of if there is more to it, though, any Elder (who has let their ego go... I've met many who are still very ego-oriented) will tell you that the ritual is a tool, and not the only means... It just happens that the rituals they perform are the ones that they are the most familiar with, which makes those rituals the most effective for them.

[TheColonel]

Originally Posted by Andrew Russell

I say "Personal Development Jr" because, that stuff seems to be attractive to teens (it was to me), and is probably their first exposure to the idea that, hey, personal growth is something worth pursuing.

You got that right.

I found a forum dedicated to occult study, and most of the postings were obviously written by people living in their mom's basement. There was a high level of melodrama, and a pack/clique mentality. I also noticed a definite high-schoolesque pecking order, and some of the threads gave it away.

"does anybody have a spell for acne??"
"I think my BF is cheating. I need a potion"
etc.

[MartialDev]

Originally Posted by Andrew Russell

My latest theory on Witchcraft (and such) is that it could be very easily described as "Personal Development Jr".

IMO you've confused the parent and the child. "Personal development" is the oversimplified and politically correct version of ancient spiritual practice.

[Michael Chui]

It's of interest to note that the term "magic" is related to the term "mana", which is where "manic" derives from. But a magus is considered a wise person. My personal take on these... coincidences... is that this is the origin of the line between genius and insanity. I define insanity to be perceived incomprehensibility: this fits very nicely as an esoteric view.

Oh, and information is power. To hear Michael Crichton describe it, speech by an authority can, in fact, be deadly. Fear, Complexity, Environmental Management in the 21st Century

[magickmystik]

Definitions of Magick on the Web:

the art of focusing your will and emotions to effect change in the world around you and the world within you. It is important to remember that magick is neutral, it is neither good or bad... only our intentions are good or bad. Magick will only take the path of least resistance.
members.aol.com/fadeddragn/dictionary.html

The art and occult science of changing events around you by manipulating energy in nature, the self, and the spirit world.
www.spiritonline.com/dictionary/m.html

The use of natural energies within ourselves and the world around us to effect a physical change in a condition or life situation. Spelled with a "k" to differentiate it from stage magic.
mysticsmountain.tripod.com/glossary1.htm

This is an old spelling of Magic revived in modern times by Aleister Crowley to distinguish his system from stage conjuring. Apparently the "k" at the end, in Crowley's view, stands for "Kteis" (Greek ) the female genitalia, hence indicating the sexual undertone (or even overtone) of his system.
WMT Glossary

Aleister Crowley said it best: "Magick is the science and art of causing change to occur in conformity to will"
http://www.moonbeamgarden.com/witchs...n_glossary.htm

Magick is taking something that you visualize in your mind, and bringing it into being in the physical world. This is done by the force of will. This is what we often refer to as spell work. It is spelled with the final 'k' as to not be confused with stage magic, such as David Copperfield performs. See our section on "What is Witchcraft?" on our home page.
members.tripod.com/~jack_in_the_green/terms/terms.html

(aka "Ritual Magic".) A spelling of "magic" invented by Aleister Crowley to differentiate ceremonial magic from stage magic.
www.datarat.net/DR/Lex-M.html

Some Wiccans use this spelling to deferentiate between stage magic (sleight of hand) and the practise of using energy to create change. Magick work is not necessarily connected to spirituality - some simply practise one or the other alone, while others use both. Common uses of magick include prosperity, protection, and healing. Magick is not unnatural or supernatural. Prayer and meditation can be considered forms of magick. Also see SPELL.
www.exploremaine.com/~lorelei/pi_glossary.htm

Magick is an alternate spelling of magic, coined by Aleister Crowley to differentiate 'the true science of the Magi from all its counterfeits'. In the broadest sense, Magick is any act designed to cause intentional change. This term is often spelled with a terminal "k" to differentiate it from other practices, such as "stage magic". ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magick

[quin]

I have always noticed some sort of correlation between witchcraft and intention manifestation. I remember reading a "spell book" by celebrity witch Fiona Horne when I was about 13 and thinking "these spells just seem like positive thought".

[seirwyn]

Originally Posted by Richful

So is this the "Occultist here?" thread to match the "Christians here"?
I confess I might be one of those people . Please bear in mind I use the term Occult for what it means; Hidden. Not devil worship or sacrifices and other such nonsense. Most of what is on this forum could be called occult.

I would call myself an occultist and a Christian because as you say, true occultism is about hidden things, and God is hidden and magical and mysterious. Most occultism isnt about devils although they do crop up.
Spells are very similar to the LoA except they use the vibrations of natural objects such as herbs, oils and crystals and the planets to enhance the vibes sent out by the mind.

[seirwyn]

Originally Posted by Keith

I'm surprised that I haven't seen any posts regarding Witchcraft/spells/magic(k) in these forums.

From my limited knowledge, spells seem to be one way of approaching the LoA and developing mental focus/skills.

Do we just not have anyone here who follows these spiritual (and personal development?) paths?

Yes-me! and I feel a bit lonely!

[Liveformx64]

magick obviously fits more into the frame of a religion, more so than today's new age of personal empowerment. But I personally think that all of these labels, Witch, Wiccan, Shaman, Law of Attraction, New Age, are simply permission slips that allow us to tap into a small part of the power of who we truly are outside of this incarnation. All of it containing varying degrees of distortion, and all of it resonating differently with each individual. All of it however, is just as valid of an experience as the next.

[SarahLuvzYu]

IMO Magick is just helpful LOA tool, it makes it's easier for the person to believe it will happen because they took an action to make it happen (the spell). But really everything you do with Magick you can achieve with just consciousness.

But yeah it's also quite religious and probably good with bringing energy levels up (another reason why it's good with LOA). I personally don't use Magick, probably because I don't have the time and I don't feel a need to use it at this point in my life.

[Zuvuya42]

Yeah, Crowley was actually quite brilliant and very profound, but he was also a total dick (check out "the law is for all", a deciphered version of the "book of the law"). Thats life, isnt it?

Like many have said, magical ritual is just a tool to access energy or manifest will into being. Its useful for some, but others find it a distraction. I think its fascinating and find it fun, but i dont take it too seriously after the fact. I kind of like the dramatic and mysterious. Ritual also aids in "intellectual decompression" and can make being in the right space to manifest easier.

As per LoneWolfs theory of magic: Couldnt modern scientific viewpoints merely be a physical representation of things we cannot fully perceive via science? If demonic possession and soul woundedness is juts mental illness and psychological/emotional trauma, why does shamanic and other types of exorcism/healing work so well (case in point - there are clinics in south america that provide rehabilitation for crack and/or heroin addiction using shamanic rituals. Said have the lowest recidivism rate of all rehab programs)?
Maybe trauma (often the cause or trigger of mental illness) also occurs energetically and allows so called demonic possession to take place due to the souls flight from the body, which we have simply called mental illness and dissociation since science currently lacks the ability to measure things spiritual?
Why does science always need to conflict with the spiritual? Cant the two be perceiving the same thing, from different perspectives - and if so, arent they both correct? A good example is the scientific big bang at the creation of the universe, this bears striking resemblance to Brahma chanting Ohm and vibrating the universe into being in hinduism. Perhaps in this instance a "big bang" was the physical manifestation of Brahma chanting Ohm? If this were a purely scientific event and there were humans when it happened, we could say that they witnessed the event and interpreted it as god chanting, but that could not have been the case - so where did that knowledge come from if not a genuinely mystical awareness? It seems important to treat all aspects of a person in healing, and to interact with all levels of reality when altering or creating it.

I digress a bit, but i think it helps the idea that the mystical, be it LOA or Magic Ritual, is a valid way of accessing reality, and may be even more effective than scientific methods as it effects the under-workings or gears of reality, which then become physical. So to can physical actions effect the "gears" that turn existence, as such, physically performed magical rituals may actually have validity in creating reality. Study sanskrit and the Rig Veda for a take on language, vibration, and the act of creation.

[Old Soul]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Much of what used to be termed magick has now been given scientific or psychological terminology. For example, what is the difference between casting a spell, hypnotising someone, or creating a physical anchor to trigger certain emotional responses? It is the same thing.
Also, many forms of demon possession are now seen as mental illnesses, the exorcism now being a series of drugs (modern potions), and talking with a therapist, psychologist or whatever (modern witchdoctors).
Also, the placebo effect is another example of a really mysterious process that used to be employed by sorcerers "casting the bone" or "laying a curse".

So, ask me if I believe in magick, and I would say absolutely, but I might have a rational explanation for what is going on.

there is a commercial on tv, about a guy who sticks pins into a voodoo doll of his neighbor , lol ( car commercial i think), whats the difference between what this man does , verses a person who goes to an accupuncturist

intent or unevolved conscience ? lol

[Old Soul]

Originally Posted by Richful

So is this the "Occultist here?" thread to match the "Christians here"?
I confess I might be one of those people . Please bear in mind I use the term Occult for what it means; Hidden. Not devil worship or sacrifices and other such nonsense. Most of what is on this forum could be called occult.

What if something is hidden in plain sight ? then it isnt really hidden is it:-))

i think the "bare bones" difference between occult practise and good magic is
intent.......

for example I love to cook, I am forever in the kitchen perfecting a recipie to be enjoyed by all
I take something simple like say chocolate..... and turn that chocolate into a masterpiece , to my way of thinking this is "alchemy" at it's finest,
my intent is for the good or pleasure of everyone eating, for the finest of dining experience

would you not say that this is good magic?

[Old Soul]

Maybe trauma (often the cause or trigger of mental illness) also occurs energetically and allows so called demonic possession to take place due to the souls flight from the body, which we have simply called mental illness and dissociation since science currently lacks the ability to measure things spiritual?

I found this the other online, i find this extremely interesting

The Official Graham Hancock Website: Forum

It's about a woman who hears a voice...... i think it's a fasinating story

[Christine910]

Being a witch myself, it's not a religion at all. I have no god/dess. It's how I live my life. I don't need some book telling me right from wrong. I don't need a person telling me either. Only I know what actions I can and can not live with. A spell is simply a prayer, but with energy. I have to connect with that energy force, in order to make the spell work. I have worked a spell and it worked every time. Now it won't, because I can not focus strong enough to the energy to make it happen. Wicca is not the same as witchcraft, though many want to believe it is. I believe that you are born a witch, not made one. You can't just read a book and be one. I don't need props to make a spell work. I don't have to check the phase of the moon to make sure I am doing my spell at the right time, or make sure the planets are all lined up just right. I don't need candles, an athaem, wand, circle of salt, or anything else. People who use them, are not strong enough and need their powers to aid them. All I need is my own mind and the ability to see what I want and make it come to me. I like to burn herbs, but mostly it's because I like the smell or because they help me focus or calm me down. I love to cook with them too.

I believe that if someone harms me and I dem it bad eough I will send out something to harm them as well. I don't believe in karama. I believe it's more about what I can live with.